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Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour)

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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#41 » by HEDOBALL » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:06 pm

Hawks just waived Damien Wilkins.

Clearing bench room? Or getting rid of a scrub?
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#42 » by Mr.Raptorsingh » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:06 pm

Maybe, Bibby to a third team, with ATL getting a big back to replace Pachulia?
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#43 » by timdunkit » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:08 pm

cosmostein wrote:Let me put my speculation hat on:

Calderon makes 9m
Bibby makes 5.5m

Jason Collins can't be traded without his permission,
Etan Thomas, Pape Sy, and Josh Powell all make sub 1m.

Atlanta is $39,787 shy of the tax threshold, so they are not adding salary.

Bibby + ZaZa = 9.81m
Calderon + Dorsey = 9.85m

Dropping them into the tax.

However, Calderon for Bibby + ZaZa would save them .81m right now.


Not sure if I'm right but Dorsey makes the minimum? And minimum salaries don't count against the tax? Anyone confirm both.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#44 » by KrazyP » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:08 pm

reez87 wrote:
vancityballer wrote:
Macho wrote:Calderon and Bargs for Bibby and Horford? sign me up!!! :D


Do not sign me up. Who is going to create their own offense? Horford would be awesome beside Bargs, but w/o Bargs he would be a good defensive centre that needs an offensive PF to play off. Would that be Davis? Or Amir? Or Joey? Or Reggie? I like his game, but losing Bargs for him is illogical.

Obviously trading bargs for horford doesn't instantly make us playoff contenders but we can build through the draft with a traditional (yet short) C, rather than awkwardly trying to accomodate for Bargnani's all offensive, no defensive play


Horford is undersized for a C. On defense he's basically Amir Johnson minus the foul trouble. The only reason the Hawks get by with him at C is because they have great size/athleticism/shotblocking/defense from the 3/4 (JOsh Smith/Marvin Williams).....these are things the Raps dont have. A Horford for Bargs swap would result in a overall marginal improvement if any at all. Bargnani sandwiched between Josh Smith and Marvin Williams would be outstanding.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#45 » by theSkinny » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:09 pm

Rude Boy 1 wrote:
LittleOzzy wrote:I know a few guys who work at Sportsnet and was talking to one today and he mentioned a rumour that is circling in the NBA involving Atlanta and Toronto.

Deal involves Calderon and a big for Bibby and a big. No word on picks or cash being sent either way but he said it would likely include one or the other.

That's about all I know other then both teams waived players today.

-----

To put into context my source, he was the same guy who mentioned a few seasons back BC wanting Rasho to return if waived from Indiana when really it took a whole season to get him back. So he was right on him returning, just not in the time frame that was rumoured.


This is not the Hawks forum! Why would you lock a thread that is toronto related? :roll:

And source or this should be locked!



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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#46 » by HSTRIP » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:09 pm

Sounds good for us... Not sure why hawks would do this. Unless they really want to dump zazas contract. Maybe Miami pick swap involved? I'd take bibby over Jose any day. Bibby is the type of guy that would still play well as he ages and be a good leader. Of course we would have to get Marvin or pick for this to make sense.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#47 » by Mr.Raptorsingh » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:10 pm

Would Portland want Bibby? Maybe they can send Pryzbilla to ATL in a 3-way
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#48 » by J-Roc » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:10 pm

My Sportsnet connection just asked around the office and says there's no talk of anything.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#49 » by theSkinny » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:11 pm

J-Roc wrote:My Sportsnet connection just asked around the office and says there's no talk of anything.


Jonovision?
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#50 » by Morris_Shatford » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:11 pm

SkinnyP wrote:
Rude Boy 1 wrote:
LittleOzzy wrote:I know a few guys who work at Sportsnet and was talking to one today and he mentioned a rumour that is circling in the NBA involving Atlanta and Toronto.

Deal involves Calderon and a big for Bibby and a big. No word on picks or cash being sent either way but he said it would likely include one or the other.

That's about all I know other then both teams waived players today.

-----

To put into context my source, he was the same guy who mentioned a few seasons back BC wanting Rasho to return if waived from Indiana when really it took a whole season to get him back. So he was right on him returning, just not in the time frame that was rumoured.


This is not the Hawks forum! Why would you lock a thread that is toronto related? :roll:

And source or this should be locked!



You aint no Mod, so stay in the backseat and shaddup


I have PMed the topic creator and he seems fairly legit. :D
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#51 » by reez87 » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:11 pm

KrazyP wrote:
reez87 wrote:
vancityballer wrote:Do not sign me up. Who is going to create their own offense? Horford would be awesome beside Bargs, but w/o Bargs he would be a good defensive centre that needs an offensive PF to play off. Would that be Davis? Or Amir? Or Joey? Or Reggie? I like his game, but losing Bargs for him is illogical.

Obviously trading bargs for horford doesn't instantly make us playoff contenders but we can build through the draft with a traditional (yet short) C, rather than awkwardly trying to accomodate for Bargnani's all offensive, no defensive play


Horford is undersized for a C. On defense he's basically Amir Johnson minus the foul trouble. The only reason the Hawks get by with him at C is because they have great size/athleticism/shotblocking/defense from the 3/4 (JOsh Smith/Marvin Williams).....these are things the Raps dont have. A Horford for Bargs swap would result in a overall marginal improvement if any at all. Bargnani sandwiched between Josh Smith and Marvin Williams would be outstanding.



You just repeated what i said.. :S

You: Horford is undersized for a C.
Me: a traditional (yet short) C

You: overall marginal improvement if any at all
Me: Obviously trading bargs for horford doesn't instantly make us playoff contenders


Did you just say that Horford is Amir minus the foul trouble??!?!?! Can i put that in my sig?... Seriously :S
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#52 » by KrazyP » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:13 pm

Regarding Bibby for Calderon.....I can see the financial reasons behind this trade but I'm 50/50 on whether or not I'm in favour of it.

Rebuilding teams need strong PG play to get young players on the same page and run a structured offense. Calderon is ideal for this role. Without him, the Raps offense is usually in disarray with random players chucking up random shots at random times....this is a bad way to develop young talent. Mike Bibby is old and has always been more of a scoring PG so I dont know if he'd be the ideal fit.

If Zaza is involved, this deal makes absolutely no sense because the Raps end up downgrading at PG without cutting much long term salary.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#53 » by Fenris-77 » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:14 pm

Meh. I'm fine with shedding a year on Jose's deal, even if it is for an aging and yawnstipating Mike Bibby, and I'm also fine with that being a move designed to free up a bigger role for Bayless. I'm not exactly enamoured of the Zaza add though. He's a fine player, and I do think he's probably overlooked by a lot of NBA fans, but I don't think he brings enough to the table for me to be happy playing him over Davis or Amir. Beyond that, his salary does take some of the zip out of shedding Jose's bloated deal. Not that it's all doom and gloom - Zaza is a pretty damn good offensive rebounder, and for a big he does a nice job getting to the line, but that's really it for the plus column there IMO. I guess he's also a vet, which on a team with a very young front court is a plus, but I don't think that tips the balance. Maybe I'm under-selling his ability to help with match-ups against bigger opponents, but I don't think so

I might change my mind if a third team is involved somehow, but for now all this deal gets from me is a slow golf clap for ditching Jose's albatross on unsuspecting Hotlanta. :lol:
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#54 » by goinrogue » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:14 pm

mintsa wrote:
goinrogue wrote:In the trade predictions thread, I predicted Jose would be traded in order to make room for Bayless to get more playing time. I said I think BC is high on Bayless and wants to develop him more. If this trade goes down, I think it's partly about sheading salary but also most definitely about handing the keys over to J-Bay. What do we have to lose? We're not going anywhere this season anyway, and this season would signify that BC is dedicated to the rebuilding process.
I noticed a lot of Raps-related trades on the trade board are centered around Barbosa, but I can see BC trying to move Jose over Leandro. Barbossa and BC have a history, of course, and BC loves his combo guards. Plus, Barbosa is much younger than Jose and less injury-prone.




20 Leandro Barbosa G 6-3 202 11/28/1982 Sau Paulo, Brazil 7
8 Jose Calderon G 6-3 210 09/28/1981 Villanueva de la Serena, Spain 5

He's actually only a year younger.


My mistake. Scratch that "much."
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#55 » by theSkinny » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:15 pm

If I am not mistaken... If Bibby suits up for the raps he will be the only player left in the NBA to have played for two Canadian teams
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#56 » by RocLaFamilia » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:16 pm

KrazyP wrote:Regarding Bibby for Calderon.....I can see the financial reasons behind this trade but I'm 50/50 on whether or not I'm in favour of it.

Rebuilding teams need strong PG play to get young players on the same page and run a structured offense. Calderon is ideal for this role. Without him, the Raps offense is usually in disarray with random players chucking up random shots at random time....this is a bad way to develop young talent. Mike Bibby is old and always been more of a scoring PG so I dont know if he'd be the ideal fit.

If Zaza is involved, this deal makes absolutely no sense because the Raps end up downgrading at PG without cutting much long term salary.


There has to be a pick involved, or at least I hope so. I don't see BC doing this trade just to shed a year of contract, that's not his style. Your right this is a downgrade for us, there has to be more than just Bibby + Zaza for Calderon.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#57 » by timdunkit » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:16 pm

timdunkit wrote:
cosmostein wrote:Let me put my speculation hat on:

Calderon makes 9m
Bibby makes 5.5m

Jason Collins can't be traded without his permission,
Etan Thomas, Pape Sy, and Josh Powell all make sub 1m.

Atlanta is $39,787 shy of the tax threshold, so they are not adding salary.

Bibby + ZaZa = 9.81m
Calderon + Dorsey = 9.85m

Dropping them into the tax.

However, Calderon for Bibby + ZaZa would save them .81m right now.


Not sure if I'm right but Dorsey makes the minimum? And minimum salaries don't count against the tax? Anyone confirm both.


Answering my own question ... Dorsey makes the minimum and from my understanding, part of the min salary is paid for by the league.

When determining the amount of tax a team owes, the league uses its team salary (see question number 14) on the date of their last regular season game (i.e., if a player is traded away before the end of the season, then none of his salary is taxed), with the following adjustments:

* Any "unlikely bonuses" (see question number 64) that were actually earned are added to the team salary.
* Any "likely bonuses" (see question number 64) that were not earned are subtracted from the team salary.
* Any trade bonuses (see question number 86) for players received in trade after the last season game are added to the team salary.
* Any amounts from settlements of grievances are added to the team salary.
* For players who signed as free agents (i.e., not draft picks), and make less than the two-year minimum salary, the minimum salary for a two-year veteran is used in place of their actual salary.
* For minimum salary players whose salary is partially paid by the league (see question number 11) only the amount paid by the team (the two-year minimum salary) is taxed.
* Teams were given a one-time opportunity to waive one player and exempt his salary from the luxury tax. This is described in detail in question number 18.

http://members.cox.net/lmcoon/salarycap.htm#Q16

Would Dorsey qualify under this?
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#58 » by Hassassin » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:17 pm

Lionel Messi wrote:I hate Bibby, but I also hate the idea of paying Jose $20M for the next 2 seasons after this.
I doubt we're getting Zaza, he's a pretty key piece for them.


Not under Larry Drew. Josh Powell averages more minutes than Zaza.
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#59 » by HEDOBALL » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:17 pm

HEDOBALL wrote:Hawks just waived Damien Wilkins.

Clearing bench room? Or getting rid of a scrub?
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Re: Raptors/Hawks Deal Going Down? (Rumour) 

Post#60 » by Lionel Messi » Wed Jan 5, 2011 6:20 pm

HA! wrote:
Lionel Messi wrote:I hate Bibby, but I also hate the idea of paying Jose $20M for the next 2 seasons after this.
I doubt we're getting Zaza, he's a pretty key piece for them.


Not under Larry Drew. Josh Powell averages more minutes than Zaza.


Didn't even check the numbers.

In that case, maybe we can get Zaza. I think he could even start and push Bargs to the 4.

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