Should Bryan Colangelo be Fired

[hillbilly hare]

This team desperately needs a shake-up. In a results oriented league, I'm not sure why BC has gotten a free pass for so long. If you bring a great coach in and he tanks a couple of seasons, chances are he'll get shuffled out the door regardless of his history.

BC came in with some hype and it's been a steady downward spiral ever since. Bargnani is the curse of this franchise and as sad as it sounds, I wish he'd been as immediate a let-down as Araujo. At least with an outright bust you take your 2-3 years, have your facepalm moment and move on. With Bargnani he showed just barely enough that you keep expecting something to happen, and all we really got out of it was a guaranteed 5-6 years of mediocrity as we wasted a significant contract on a player who kills us financially, kills us on the floor and kills the perception of the Raptors in general.

We're not even a lovable loser team of scrappy young players. I can't watch this guy roam around, taking terrible shots and play no defense for 35 mins every game. It's actually painful to watch, to the point where I don't even watch the Raps play anymore. I watch other teams, who I don't really have any attachment to, just because I like watching good basketball.

I remember getting so excited when our terrible expansion team rose up to beat Jordan's Bulls one night. I think I watched every game that season and even though the basketball was pretty bad, it was exciting because I felt positive about the future of the team. Nothing short of a pair of superstar players could get me excited to watch the Raps again as long as Bargnani is around. I can't even really blame the guy anymore. It's all on BC at this point.

A bit too easy to single out Bargnani, but he does have his share of the blame. Biggest problem: not developing at all over all these years. Absolutely brutal in terms of professionalism and attitude. And to think that what Colangelo was gushing about when he drafted him was Andrea's off the charts scores on that aptitude test thing!

I think Colangelo's biggest and most obvious fail is that he did come in with some hype, but more importantly he came in with a pretty good foundation on a bad team that he was expected to resurrect. A lot of GMs in his position, i.e. team savior, would love to have the assets he had: young All-star big man, 1st overall pick, ROY runner-up, cap space. Pretty nice situation for a rebuild and to put your stamp on the team.

Fast-forward to 7 (seven!) off-seasons later and we see Colangelo's enormous failure, for which he should have been fired already and should be fired tomorrow: he failed to add any impact talent to the team in all that time. Worse, he produced a Minus -1 in terms of All-star talent, i.e. letting Bosh escape for nothing and adding no one else in all that time. That is the bottom line.

MINUS -1 IN ADDING ALL-STAR TALENT to the team.

He should be fired tomorrow morning. He has been Babcockian apart from his drafting, but passing on Drummond this year brings him all that closer to Babcock Level. And to be honest, despite Colangelo's "appearance" of professionalism and self-confidence, his record is not significantly better than Babcock's. Though his salary and power and expectations and promises and years at the helm are and have been a LOT higher than poor old Rob's.

How the hell does he still have a job?! It sure isn't based on results.

For those who want replacement names, I'd propose anyone in management with one of the better run teams, e.g. the Spurs, Thunder, etc. How about Troy Weaver from OKC?

[Volcano]

I'm wrong on all accounts.

There was no consensus first overall pick in that draft at all. How many times does the dead horse need to be beaten before that gets through people's heads? Selecting a player that turned out to be one of the better players in the lottery is not favoring him anymore than it is picking a good pick. You can criticize him for his revolutionary of the game plan, which failed miserably, but how does that show he shows some irrational love for Bargnani?

There was no absolute consensus, but there was a general one. It was mainly between Aldridge, Gay and also TT (although I don't think he was that strong a candidate). NOBODY brought up Bargnani except BC.

The irrational love is exaggerated by fans. My point is that there IS some affinity towards Bargnani.

The revolution of the game and Bargnani go hand in hand (Bigs that can shoot, handle the ball, play like guards). That was his vision and he thought Bargs was the answer.

Anyone with a brain saw Bosh and Bargs were a terrible fit. Why didn't he trade Bargs?

After Bosh left..Bargnani continued to play lazy ball and brought us no where. It's been how long? 4-5 years? Still here.

Big 13, should have sold high, yet he didn't. Look at this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=32&p=30531555

sell high! we can get a lot for Bargs now and something pretty decent for Calderon

The problem with Bargs is his reliability not his current game. It's 13 games vs 5 years. In the year that he played hard, he couldn't stay healthy. The way he played before he went down was great. He can continue on this path or he could have problems for the rest of his career. Trading him is based on which risk you want to take.

This is called foresight and strategy. Now at this point in time, do you think BC wanted to trade him or not?


That's a given. What you're failing to see that at this very moment the BC hate is at an all time high. Not many people are seeing this all with a clear head and their emotions are being driven by everything but logic. Not having to see Bargnani every night would make the team more bearable to watch, and it's unreasonable to think the hate would still be consistent without Bargnani. He would still get bagged on for losing, sure, but by trading him away he would quell the hate. He would need to do more than that to clear his name, obviously.

You're just repeating what you already said and I've already logically explained it to be wrong. Why do you think the BC hate is at an all time high? Because we STILL have Bargnani? What about before the season started or last year? Stop repeating the same crap over and think about what I said. Two weeks ago, was the hate this high? What changed? One day it's.."I hate BC" the next day it's.."I WANT TO KILL BC AND @*#(@#%". Guess what, Bargnani has been here the entire time. Why did the hate level suddenly go nuts?

Furthermore, the BC label has already been tainted by keeping Bargs among other things. Just like people hate him for his past transactions, they'll still hate him for Bargs even when he's gone. They hate him for keeping Calderon too. Fans want all 3 gone.

This entire movement was inspired by going 1-6. The only way the level of hate would change is winning or a positive change in personnel (until we start losing again).

Anyways, the key point is that the team would be more bearable, not BC.
[/b]

As to the pick, Rudy Gay was the top rated prospect for a long time leading up to the draft, probably at least a year. Bargnani's came out of nowhere to the rest of the league. We can only assume Colangelo and Gherardini scouted him thoroughly and knew what they were getting. IIRC Colangelo was effusing praise for Andrea's wonderlic scores or whatever the heck they're called. If that's to measure a guy's b-ball acumen and character and dedication, I think the test might need some revising.

I willl premise my comments with the fact that I am one of Colangelo's harshest critics, that I opened a thread several months ago titled "Who should our next GM be?" (for which I was roundly dumped on and told to shut up and get off the board), that I don't think the Bargnani pick was a bad one, but I think it's safe to say that Gay was the best prospect at that time and also would have been a pick based on need.

I remember Aldridge being the favourite. No other player was consistently mentioned. BC was the one who brought Bargs into the conversation as the draft drew closer. Rudy Gay was an underdog and the next choice to go first..with Harry Palmer leading the way. He'll attest to that.

[BD12]

Thanks for cockblocking the Knicks BC...now they're what, 6-0 to start the season?

[West Rouge]

Thanks for cockblocking the Knicks BC...now they're what, 6-0 to start the season?

Ask Miami about the great things BC does. He played a major role in creating cap flexibility for the Super team. Too bad he does F-all for us

[Suga2Panda]

Overpaying Landry Fields to try to block the Knicks, then having Nash turn you down.... he should be fired for this alone, not to mention all these years of suckage.

[T-Ross the Boss]

Bc is literally the worst GM in sports. The fact that he still has some supporters is proof of his astonishing mind control powers.

He must be some kind of supernatural monster, able to put a strangehold on his father and everyone else.

[lucky777s]

We need to build some momentum for this movement. Have to start emailing MLSE in mass. Call in to the FAN whenever they talk Raptors, the after game show, HOOPS, etc.

Get a twitter trend going, spam their FB account.

Send emails to our sports writers suggesting the story. Give them details in the email about BCs 7 years of failures and mention how all the other losing GMs have changed in this time while he stays here as the top paid guy in the league. Make it easy for them. If they get 10+ emails on this one will likely bite on it.

[theSkinny]

Bc is literally the worst GM in sports. The fact that he still has some supporters is proof of his astonishing mind control powers.

He must be some kind of supernatural monster, able to put a strangehold on his father and everyone else.

You sound like a butt hurt 16 year old who just got grounded from his xbox.


Am I far off?

[OAKLEY_2]

I think a thread and poll like this shows the weakness with sometimes basing decisions on majority opinion (the mob of 86%) rather than actually examining what it would mean to can BC. I also think there is a difference between "not renewing" and out and out "firing his asss". It would give me no pleasure whatsoever to read the headline: Raptors fire Brian Colangelo. More dirty laundry that we choose to burn rather than clean. In true MLSE fashion we'd have to acknowledge the fact that it places blame on the hired help rather than the slick suits in the back rooms with clipboards whom we've hardly ever seen or heard from. Why are they so unknown and yet get a free pass? Why should the culture of accountability be only partially applied? What would a succession and transition look like? I do think that there is ample reason for thumbs down based on Bosh, Hibbert and Drummond alone and the Caliper tests but when you are the number 2 or 3 sport in a hockey mad market you need some fiscal sanity and some stability running a still youngish franchise. Whether he becomes President and abdicates the GM title (strangely silent on that idea after proposing it less than a year ago) or he leaves outright we better have something in place that protects a smooth and near seamless transition because believe or not this is not about hope for better it is about trying to shed the label of joke status and we are much closer to number one joke franchise endlessly searching for the latest scapegoat than staying the course with familiar yet unpopular faces.

[lucky777s]

You are too worried about public perception Oakley, and not worried enough about performance.

There is NO difference between firing him and not renewing when it is well known he wants to stay. Its the same thing. But by firing him now you can have someone else set up for the trade deadline and well prepared for the draft.

Even if we don't have a pick the new GM should be carefully examining the draft to see what picks might be available or what moves we can make with Bargs as teams look to re-shape their rosters. We don't want BC doing any of this and we want the new guy to have as much of the season as possible to really understand what we have here and what needs to be done.

Results are what matters. Stock the team with talent and show improvement and FAs will look to come here. David West chose IND over BOS for less total money as an example.

[CoachJReturns]

.[/b]
[/b]
[/quote]

As to the pick, Rudy Gay was the top rated prospect for a long time leading up to the draft, probably at least a year. Bargnani's came out of nowhere to the rest of the league. We can only assume Colangelo and Gherardini scouted him thoroughly and knew what they were getting. IIRC Colangelo was effusing praise for Andrea's wonderlic scores or whatever the heck they're called. If that's to measure a guy's b-ball acumen and character and dedication, I think the test might need some revising.

I willl premise my comments with the fact that I am one of Colangelo's harshest critics, that I opened a thread several months ago titled "Who should our next GM be?" (for which I was roundly dumped on and told to shut up and get off the board), that I don't think the Bargnani pick was a bad one, but I think it's safe to say that Gay was the best prospect at that time and also would have been a pick based on need.
[/quote]

I remember Aldridge being the favourite. No other player was consistently mentioned. BC was the one who brought Bargs into the conversation as the draft drew closer. Rudy Gay was an underdog and the next choice to go first..with Harry Palmer leading the way. He'll attest to that.[/quote]

No, he's right about Gay. Aldridge moved up near the draft, but before his sophomore season started and through most of it Gay was number one on pretty much every board. He was on the front of sports magazines and all that. People just fell out of love with him because he didn't dominate like they thought he should. I still wanted him with our number one pick though because he still looked like a future all-star, just not an MVP candidate. Besides, he fit a position we desperately needed and have not filled since. BC f*d up.

[OAKLEY_2]

Answer me this lucky777s. There is a very proven GM in an adjacent office with a championship under his belt and he has struggled in an eerily similar manner to get traction in so far as being a "winner' is concerned. Do we fire him as well? I think fans are too knee-jerk in assessing what needs to be done without obvious alternatives. Does it suk to be a Toronto sports fan? Yup. Look at the platinum empty seats and you get an idea of what the sports culture of Toronto is. Let's face it in the NBA we look like a no tradition expansion franchise so yeah perception is reality in a showtime league. With our expansion personna I wonder what GM can land established talent when we can't even sign our most favoured son to the most lucrative contract on offer. Almost any GM coming here is going to have recruiting issues of that I'm certain.

[theSkinny]

We must fix the blame!!!! Not the problem!!!!

[Courtside]

Thanks for cockblocking the Knicks BC...now they're what, 6-0 to start the season?

Ask Miami about the great things BC does. He played a major role in creating cap flexibility for the Super team. Too bad he does F-all for us

No he didn't. Miami already had salaries cleared for that offseason - whether it was Marion or Oneal, they were both expiring - so sending them Oneal made no difference towards their ability to chase James and Bosh.

[Fairview4Life]

Thanks for cockblocking the Knicks BC...now they're what, 6-0 to start the season?

Ask Miami about the great things BC does. He played a major role in creating cap flexibility for the Super team.

So did Presti.

[Fairview4Life]

Thanks for cockblocking the Knicks BC...now they're what, 6-0 to start the season?

Ask Miami about the great things BC does. He played a major role in creating cap flexibility for the Super team. Too bad he does F-all for us

No he didn't. Miami already had salaries cleared for that offseason - whether it was Marion or Oneal, they were both expiring - so sending them Oneal made no difference towards their ability to chase James and Bosh.

BC cleared Banks for them the previous year.

[tiger7]

Fire him right now. He drafted Ross and signed Fields all to get Nash and look how it turned out. We should have drafted AD and traded him for Harden.

You sir are delusional if you think we had a shot at Harden.

[tiger7]

Bc is literally the worst GM in sports.

Loria says hi.

[West Rouge]

Fire him right now. He drafted Ross and signed Fields all to get Nash and look how it turned out. We should have drafted AD and traded him for Harden.

You sir are delusional if you think we had a shot at Harden.

Although less delusional than our chances of BC getting Nash with his current roster.

[OAKLEY_2]

Speaking of super teams. Which GM candidate is going to deliver us a Raptors "big 3" in 4-5 years. Mail all answers to: General Delivery MLSE 50 Bay St., Suite 500, Toronto ON M5J 2L2