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In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless

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Post#1 In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 3:46 am by Hansari

Apart from all the drama about the Raptors not being good enough right now, Fields being the worst signing ever, Casey's rotations not making sense, the injury to Kyle, and the recent losing streak.

I think one of B.C.'s biggest mistakes was keeping Calderon/Kleiza who could have been amnestied & Signing Fields + John Lucas, while letting go of Jerryd Bayless, now okay.. B.C. loves his high character guys, and I respect that ideology, once you have a core of high character guys you can have one or two talented hot-heads on your team.

But Bayless was one of my favourite players, the guy was talented and had a good head on his shoulders, the other guy you guys let go of was obv. James Johnson who was arguably one of your best perimeter defenders in the league last season but atleast to B.C.'s defense the guy was pretty trippy in his behaviour off the court & on the court (with coaches etc.)

Bayless legitimately seemed to me like a potential Rose-esque player who didn't get the right opportunities to showcase his talent. And every time he got that opportunity he didn't let anyone down, got these stats off the Bayless tracker thread back in 2011:

Bayless when playing > 30MPG:

Games: 16
MPG: 35
FG: 100/ 205 ( .488)
3PTFG: 18/ 53 ( .340)
FT: 77/ 92 ( .840)
FTAPG: 5.75
PPG: 18.4
APG: 6.3
RPG: 3.8
SPG: 1.1
TOVPG: 2.7
A TO Ratio: 2.33
TS%: 0.60


The kid was extremely talented, coming out of college he was already an explosive Westbrook/Rose-esque player offensively, his strengths being his ability to break down the defense, attack the rim, finish with contact, draw fouls, and locking up his man on d. His weaknesses were his court vision and his shooting, but coming into the NBA his shooting transformed and he become an excellent shooter from deep and especially the midrange. His court vision was still questionable at times but it had steadily improved every year he'd been in the league, he had quite a few 8+ assist games when he started & was given the minutes and I honestly thought he was arguably a better passer than Jose primarily because the man actually broke down the defense and used his penetration to open up his team mates and then dished it off to them, and definitely a better passer in the full court. My point being, that he was capable of becoming a great combo guard in a league that is being run more and more by combo guards.

If you head over to the Grizzlies board or speak to a few Grizzlies fans/players you'll quickly realize that they love this guy, he gave them a perfect replacement for OJ Mayo, with better point guard skills.. A few days ago the raptors got torched by Mayo so I'm sure everyone's familiar with his skillset, Bayless is definitely a more complete offensive player, as for his defense it may not be at OJ's level but that said every time I remember watching Bayless, he competed hard against the point guards he was put against. I remember particularly well one of the games I loved watching was when the Raptors beat the Chicago Bulls & Bayless started, outplayed Derrick Rose, and contained him as well as any point guard in the league would have.

With Jose Calderon starting, the team is almost unbearable to watch, all that happens in the last few games is dribble dribble dribble - post up - pass, breakdown on d, more pounding the rock by el matador. Kyle Lowry completely changed the complexion of this team, and they competed with him on the court.

I understand that Lowry was also a point guard, but you don't give away assets, Bayless would have certainly come in handy in the 2nd quarter of tonights game when the team couldn't buy a bucket, and he would have improved our team considerably on offense and defense, teams never have to pay any attention to Jose, all he's going to do is either shoot pass or dribble in one place, how hard is it to pass the ball to DeMar/Andrea in the post, which is what we do 90% of the time?

And all that said, Bayless brought an excitement that I'd seen very few PGs bring onto the court, namely Derrick Rose, Westbrook, Rondo, Lillard etc.

I've watched Thunder games since their inaugural season, and the one player I feel Bayless can be compared to side by side is Russel Westbrook. They both have the same strengths, Bayless is a better shooter, Westbrook a better defender, both have the same weaknesses, court vision/out of control at times, the only difference being that Westbrook was given the keys from day 1, and he got much needed in-game experience, and he played alongside.. Kevin Durant; while Bayless was restricted in minutes, given a defined role.

He's playing well now as a backup combo guard on a contending team in Memphis, looks a lot more in control and a better defender, and its showing up on the stat sheet, hope he keeps playing well & I hope I didn't bore you guys with this rather long post

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Post#2 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:00 am by raptorfever

Wtf
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Let's Go Raptors.....Let's Go Raptors.....Let's Go Raptors.....
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Post#3 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:18 am by theycallmeZZ

Wait wait Westbrook and Bayless have the sane strengths???

Westbrook's an athletic beast lol
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Post#4 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:29 am by Hansari

theycallmeZZ wrote:Wait wait Westbrook and Bayless have the sane strengths???

Westbrook's an athletic beast lol


That is exactly what I have a problem with, that is so not true.. Westbrook just gets to showcase himself a whole lot more on that Thunder team, Jerryd Bayless is just as athletic/if not more than Russel Westbrook

During that draft Thunder were very high on both point guards in their range, Westbrook and Bayless, things could have been very different for Bayless had he been put in that situation.

Russel Westbrook:
Height: 6' 3.5"
Standing Reach: 8' 4"
Weight: 192lbs
Body Fat: 4.8%
Lane Agility: 11s
No Step Vertical: 30"
Max Vertical: 36.5"
3/4 Court Sprint: 3.08s

Jerryd Bayless:
Height: 6' 3"
Standing Reach: 8' 1"
Weight: 205lbs
Body Fat: 4.7%
Lane Agility: 11.26s
No Step Vertical: 31"
Max Vertical: 38"
3/4 Court Sprint: 3.07s

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/jer ... less-1067/
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Post#5 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:41 am by Choker

I say this as one of Bayless biggest fans that he is certainly not comparable to Westbrook as an athlete. I'm not really a fan of using combine numbers to test athletic ability. What's most important to me as an athlete is how a player is able to integrate all of his athletic traits in one cohesive motion during a basketball game. Westbrook is just one of the most explosive players in the league right now. Bayless not so much, although he is very athletic.

I agree though that that Bayless simply has been a victim of circumstance. His time in Portland really screwed him over the rest of his career. Nate McMillan, as much as I think highly of him as a coach, is a point guard killer. Raymond Felton was not really seen in a great light, but in just one season McMillan turned him into the laughingstock of the league. I have no doubt that he screwed Bayless over in some way too mentally. And ever since Portland the stigma that he's purely a combo guard has really stuck with him no matter what. I've watched a few Grizzlies games and all commentators ever brought up whenever Bayless was playing was that he's not a true point guard. I mean literally that's all they ever talked about with him, and if he made a good pass or read the defense right Bayless simply made a "surprise" play.

Rose/Westbrook were given the chance to develop into point guards no matter how many mistakes they made early on in their career. I'm not saying Bayless would be on their levels if all things were equal, because it's clear at this point that he's not on their levels as athletes, but he would be a lot closer to them than he is now.
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Post#6 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 4:48 am by Hero

Hansari wrote:
theycallmeZZ wrote:Wait wait Westbrook and Bayless have the sane strengths???

Westbrook's an athletic beast lol


That is exactly what I have a problem with, that is so not true.. Westbrook just gets to showcase himself a whole lot more on that Thunder team, Jerryd Bayless is just as athletic/if not more than Russel Westbrook




:lol: :lol:

This ain't true.
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Post#7 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:15 am by mtcan

Hansari wrote:
theycallmeZZ wrote:Wait wait Westbrook and Bayless have the sane strengths???

Westbrook's an athletic beast lol


That is exactly what I have a problem with, that is so not true.. Westbrook just gets to showcase himself a whole lot more on that Thunder team, Jerryd Bayless is just as athletic/if not more than Russel Westbrook

During that draft Thunder were very high on both point guards in their range, Westbrook and Bayless, things could have been very different for Bayless had he been put in that situation.

Russel Westbrook:
Height: 6' 3.5"
Standing Reach: 8' 4"
Weight: 192lbs
Body Fat: 4.8%
Lane Agility: 11s
No Step Vertical: 30"
Max Vertical: 36.5"
3/4 Court Sprint: 3.08s

Jerryd Bayless:
Height: 6' 3"
Standing Reach: 8' 1"
Weight: 205lbs
Body Fat: 4.7%
Lane Agility: 11.26s
No Step Vertical: 31"
Max Vertical: 38"
3/4 Court Sprint: 3.07s

http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/jer ... less-1067/

Wait what?!? And all this time, the GM and coaches in Portland, New Orleans, Toronto and Memphis have missed out on all of this advanced advanced scouting?!?!? Jerryd is a journey man now...on his 4th new team in 5 years!!! It looks like everyone bought into the potential...but nothing has come of it. The Grizzlies currently have Mike Conley and Tony Allen starting. Conley's the de-facto starting PG...but if Bayless was any good...you don't think he would have overtaken Tony Allen...or be playing the majority of the backup minutes in the backcourt?!?!? Whatever it is you're smoking...gimme some!!!
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Post#8 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:45 am by Choker

mtcan wrote:Wait what?!? And all this time, the GM and coaches in Portland, New Orleans, Toronto and Memphis have missed out on all of this advanced advanced scouting?!?!? Jerryd is a journey man now...on his 4th new team in 5 years!!! It looks like everyone bought into the potential...but nothing has come of it. The Grizzlies currently have Mike Conley and Tony Allen starting. Conley's the de-facto starting PG...but if Bayless was any good...you don't think he would have overtaken Tony Allen...or be playing the majority of the backup minutes in the backcourt?!?!? Whatever it is you're smoking...gimme some!!!


That's totally ignoring the roles that Memphis has for its backcourt. Memphis has figured out that Bayless is not a shooting guard and use him primarily as a point guard while Ellington and Pondexter handle their bench swingmen minutes. Conley has been playing great this year and there's no point guard controversy with him and Bayless; fittingly Conley should be getting the more significant amount of minutes at the position. Bayless is actually playing pretty well considering he's only getting 15mpg; 6.8ppg/3.6apg/1.2apg on .594% shooting with good defense is great production from your backup PG. I wish we had that off the bench.
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Post#9 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 7:46 am by KnickerBonkerz

I watched the last Grizz game and Bayless played great off the bench, especially defensively. He honestly kept them in the game against the Rockets.

He would've been a better option than JL3 or Calderon, but I'm not sure he would've worked for this team the way he works for them
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Post#10 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:00 am by kirkwood

He is not and never will be comparable to westbrook but there is absolutely no question this team misses both Bayless and James Johnson.

Bayless is better than Jose Calderon and has more upside, still young.

Johnson was our best SF last year and held this team together defensively and he would still be our best SF on this team, like bayless still relatively young.

We subtracted two decent playrs with upside and added weaker players in Fields, Lucas, Mcguire and playing Anderson above avg minutes.


This team is a mess right now, many people were screaming at the top of their lunugs to not trade Bayless or Johnson becaue we all seen the impact in various ways they had on the game.


This team is now stale, lacks athelticism, lacks scoring punch and is now back to being softer than a marshmellow
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Post#11 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:08 am by TheBat

Let's not forget that Bayless was pretty average coming off the bench last year. Sure he had some nice games as a starter but he wouldn't be starting over Lowry here, so what we would have is the "off the bench Bayless" which is equivalent to JL3 if JL3 got his shot back.
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Post#12 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:15 am by Choker

TheBat wrote:Let's not forget that Bayless was pretty average coming off the bench last year. Sure he had some nice games as a starter but he wouldn't be starting over Lowry here, so what we would have is the "off the bench Bayless" which is equivalent to JL3 if JL3 got his shot back.


I've always held to the theory that why Bayless didn't play well off the bench for us was because he was seen as a combo guard and used that way off the bench. He started a few games at SG and that was just as much of a enigma as him coming off the bench.

Then again though knowing Casey and the way he's been handling our point guards this season Bayless most definitely would have seen significant time at the 2 anyways.
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Post#13 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:16 am by Brinbe

Yep. For all their talk about analytics, they gave away two of our best (and cheapest) players in that dept in Bayless/Johnson and replaced them with total garbage. Well-done, BC!
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Post#14 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:22 am by Highflyerwire

:o

Jerryd Bayless isn't very good at basketball.
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Post#15 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:24 am by West Rouge

He is no Westbrook. But he was enormously underutilized as a Raptor.
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Post#16 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:27 am by God Squad

I miss James Johnson more than Bayless tbh.
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Post#17 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:30 am by J Dilla

Westbrook and Bayless obviously couldn't be compared now since one got a lot more playing time than the other. Westbrook landed on a lotto team, Bayless landed on a playoff team buried behind the bench. Westbrook literally got to chuck away in his rookie year, and that allowed him to learn the game which is why he's so damn good at it now. Westbrook's development was a priority for the lotto team, Bayless', not so much.

Its proven, that whenever Bayless got the minutes, he produced. If Conley was to get a season ending injury tomorrow (god forbid), Bayless would have no troubles posting the same numbers (or better) in that tracker.

Even last year in a rebuilding year when Jose twisted his ankle, Jerryd Bayless was taking games over. We still didn't win much, but the man was just a beast offensively. We could've really used that right now. And Casey made a really huge mistake by sending him back to the bench on his hot streak, in a rebuilding year where you develop your young talent. Casey is an idiot for that.

Oh well, time to enjoy watching Landry Fields.
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Post#18 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:48 am by Just Win Baby

God Squad wrote:I miss James Johnson more than Bayless tbh.

He sucks.



Bayless has been playing well in Memphis. It was basically JL3 vs Bayless and BC chose JL3. I probably would've picked Lucas as well but he hasn't been scoring well and on nights like last night I think we could've used Bayless' scoring off of the bench.
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Post#19 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 10:52 am by Indeed

Please stop the "potential" thing. Our team has the potential to be the best NBA team, but it has more potential to be another lottery team this year.
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Post#20 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 11, 2012 11:05 am by lucky777s

Bayless has very nice skills and competes well.

The problem he had here:
1) did not play well off the bench for some reason
2) could not stay healthy

I remember people insisting that Bayless would only sign with a team where he would be the #1 PG, as if he was somehow in a position to do that.
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