In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless

[j3yuen]

FFS.... OP was not comparing bayless to westbrook/rose as of right now.

he was just saying those guys had an opportunity to develop while bayless had to sit on the bench for most of his career. westbrook was allowed to play like an idiot for this first few years and now he's developed into an all-star. i still think he plays like an idiot though.

if you remember back during the 08 draft
the top 3 consensus picks were rose/mayo/beasley

a lot of people were actually shocked when OKC drafted westbrook for his defense
bayless was supposed to be a top 10 pick but slipped to 11 and ended up in portland where he road the pine behind brandon roy...

[KnickerBonkerz]

Y r I here?

English, do you speak it?

I'm here because watching asinine arguments like these go back and forth is like a trainwreck, you can't help but to stare.

This franchise is so pathetic our fanbase is arguing about which scrub is less bad. It's pitiful.

You joined like 3 weeks ago and asking why I'M still here haha

Okay maybe try re-reading what I said? I asked "why are you here" and it seems like you barely understood the question

And what does how long I've been here have to do with asking someone who does nothing but post "IBTL" type comments without adding ANYTHING whatsoever to the discussion why they bother sticking around. Seems like it's just to post lame one liners to feel superior to everyone here...

Yes, this place is so pathetic to you yet you have nothing better to do then stick around and watch other people have discussions, so really who's pathetic?

[Bsee]

If OKC had drafted Bayless and Westbrook went to the Blazers we'd be talking about how Westbrook could have been Bayless and people would laugh like they are now when people say Bayless can be as good as Westbrook.

Bayless was projected 5th on draft day http://www.nbadraft.net/mocks/2008_nba_mock_draft.html and other mock drafts had him in the 5th-7th range as well. Mind you this is one of the strongest drafts at the time of draft in the last 15 years. If Bayless was in this years draft he would have probably went 3rd over Beal and theres no way anyone would have taken Dion Waiters over Bayless.

I don't think you guys realize how heavily acclaimed Bayless was as a prospect. You guys seriously don't think if Bayless had the opportunity to do whatever he wanted at OKC like Westbrook did he could have become that? They're very similar players, they both have tunnel vision, they both make boneheaded plays, but they both have elite offense and athleticism. Bayless averaged 18/6/4 with 30 minutes + last year as a Raptor in his FIRST real opportunity to develop in the league. If he had free reign to just play and the opportunity to develop like Westbrook did the roles would be reversed. OKC had a tough time deciding between Bayless and Westbrook and they picked Westbrook b/c of his D.

And to the people that think it's absurd when people say Bayless is atheltic as Westbrook

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcqe9UXkc8o[/youtube]

Bayless is doing windmills with his head at the rim, find me one Westbrook dunk where he gets that high

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZAGPXh4cTEU[/youtube]

can Westbrook even do this?

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4rffaP5VuYU[/youtube]

Looks Westbrook like doesn't it? If he played as much as Westbrook did in his career something tells me he'd have a ton of these just like westbrook does

Bayless is just as athletic as Westbrook if not more, read every pre draft scouting report of the 2
Like someone said earlier, Westbrook has had the opportunity to display it more.

And he dunks with a lot of power so it gives you the illusion he's some athletic freak when his head is so low compared to the rim with that 35 inch vertical of his

Bayless' vertical = 38 inches

[Scase]

Y r I here?

English, do you speak it?

I'm here because watching asinine arguments like these go back and forth is like a trainwreck, you can't help but to stare.

This franchise is so pathetic our fanbase is arguing about which scrub is less bad. It's pitiful.

You joined like 3 weeks ago and asking why I'M still here haha

Okay maybe try re-reading what I said? I asked "why are you here" and it seems like you barely understood the question

And what does how long I've been here have to do with asking someone who does nothing but post "IBTL" type comments without adding ANYTHING whatsoever to the discussion why they bother sticking around. Seems like it's just to post lame one liners to feel superior to everyone here...

Yes, this place is so pathetic to you yet you have nothing better to do then stick around and watch other people have discussions, so really who's pathetic?

What's pathetic is that you thought this crap was worth posting, or funny...

If you're too good for this forum then why r u here?

My point was more to the unintelligible crap that, that is. Thus the "english do you speak it" not that I would expect you to glean anything from something worded so mysteriously.

As for the comment about your time here that was in reference to the fact that I've been reading these forums for over a decade now and am fully aware how much crappy the discourse has gotten over the years. Presumably you have not what with your oh so clever response "LOLOL WE'RE PATHETIC? NOU!"

Don't like it? There's an ignore list for a reason, try and wax intellectuals elsewhere.

[Raps in 4]

He's averaging 15 MPG this season for a reason.

[Bsee]

He's averaging 15 MPG this season for a reason.

Because he came in to a situation with people in front of him already. He's obviously not gonna play over Conley.
They should start him at 2, a lot of mocks had him going 5th to Memphis in 2008 to be a compliment to Conley at the 2.

[Scase]

He's averaging 15 MPG this season for a reason.

Because he came in to a situation with people in front of him already. He's obviously not gonna play over Conley.
They should start him at 2, a lot of mocks had him going 5th to Memphis in 2008 to be a compliment to Conley at the 2.

Guess that's why he's on his 4th team in 4 years too right?

[Bsee]

He's averaging 15 MPG this season for a reason.

Because he came in to a situation with people in front of him already. He's obviously not gonna play over Conley.
They should start him at 2, a lot of mocks had him going 5th to Memphis in 2008 to be a compliment to Conley at the 2.

Guess that's why he's on his 4th team in 4 years too right?

Yep. victim of bad luck and circumstance. Could be saying the same thing about Westbrook if he got drafted by a playoff team and not a new franchise that let him play through mistakes at all times and average 3 TO a game in his rookie year. I don't know if you watch OKC at all, but Westbrook isn't exactly the most efficient player, and he's the epitome of a "chucker" like people here are so quick to call any aggressive offensive player that's meant to be a scorer. He needs to play in the manner he does to be effective. Same with Bayless. Give Bayless 35 mpg he's averaging 20/5/4 EASY.

[LinuxUser]

How would this work exactly? Paying 4 million QO for a 3rd string isn't exactly practical. On top of that he wanted to be a starter...

[Scase]

Yep. victim of bad luck and circumstance. Could be saying the same thing about Westbrook if he got drafted by a playoff team and not a new franchise that let him play through mistakes at all times and average 3 TO a game in his rookie year. I don't know if you watch OKC at all, but Westbrook isn't exactly the most efficient player, and he's the epitome of a "chucker" like people here are so quick to call any aggressive offensive player that's meant to be a scorer. He needs to play in the manner he does to be effective. Same with Bayless. Give Bayless 35 mpg he's averaging 20/5/4 EASY.

He's averaging 6/1/3 with 15mpg, if he was that capable of averaging the numbers you suggest he would be starting. If coaches on 4 teams weren't willing to give him any extended minutes it's time to stop using the circumstances excuse. He's simply not that good, and the more people compare him to westbrook the more invalid your opinion becomes.

[Too Late Crew]

Yep. victim of bad luck and circumstance. Could be saying the same thing about Westbrook if he got drafted by a playoff team and not a new franchise that let him play through mistakes at all times and average 3 TO a game in his rookie year. I don't know if you watch OKC at all, but Westbrook isn't exactly the most efficient player, and he's the epitome of a "chucker" like people here are so quick to call any aggressive offensive player that's meant to be a scorer. He needs to play in the manner he does to be effective. Same with Bayless. Give Bayless 35 mpg he's averaging 20/5/4 EASY.

He's averaging 6/1/3 with 15mpg, if he was that capable of averaging the numbers you suggest he would be starting. If coaches on 4 teams weren't willing to give him any extended minutes it's time to stop using the circumstances excuse. He's simply not that good, and the more people compare him to westbrook the more invalid your opinion becomes.

Its pretty amazing given the scouting,video and advanced analytics that every GM in the NBA including his current one is letting Westbrook like production for 3M a year simply slip through their fingers.

Or maybe Memphis is just really smart limiting to 15 mpg so that he doesn't show his true talent. Then they can maye sign him to a 4 year 10 M dollar deal trade Conoley for a star SG and then let Bayless explode. It much take a lot of patience to resist the teams like the Bulls, Hornets, Wizards or twolves that are starting absolute garbage at PG throwing great offers out there to pry away Bayless.

[Scase]

Yep. victim of bad luck and circumstance. Could be saying the same thing about Westbrook if he got drafted by a playoff team and not a new franchise that let him play through mistakes at all times and average 3 TO a game in his rookie year. I don't know if you watch OKC at all, but Westbrook isn't exactly the most efficient player, and he's the epitome of a "chucker" like people here are so quick to call any aggressive offensive player that's meant to be a scorer. He needs to play in the manner he does to be effective. Same with Bayless. Give Bayless 35 mpg he's averaging 20/5/4 EASY.

He's averaging 6/1/3 with 15mpg, if he was that capable of averaging the numbers you suggest he would be starting. If coaches on 4 teams weren't willing to give him any extended minutes it's time to stop using the circumstances excuse. He's simply not that good, and the more people compare him to westbrook the more invalid your opinion becomes.

Its pretty amazing given the scouting,video and advanced analytics that every GM in the NBA including his current one is letting Westbrook like production for 3M a year simply slip through their fingers.

Or maybe Memphis is just really smart limiting to 15 mpg so that he doesn't show his true talent. Then they can maye sign him to a 4 year 10 M dollar deal trade Conoley for a star SG and then let Bayless explode. It much take a lot of patience to resist the teams like the Bulls, Hornets, Wizards or twolves that are starting absolute garbage at PG throwing great offers out there to pry away Bayless.

[GameChannel]

Yep. victim of bad luck and circumstance. Could be saying the same thing about Westbrook if he got drafted by a playoff team and not a new franchise that let him play through mistakes at all times and average 3 TO a game in his rookie year. I don't know if you watch OKC at all, but Westbrook isn't exactly the most efficient player, and he's the epitome of a "chucker" like people here are so quick to call any aggressive offensive player that's meant to be a scorer. He needs to play in the manner he does to be effective. Same with Bayless. Give Bayless 35 mpg he's averaging 20/5/4 EASY.

He's averaging 6/1/3 with 15mpg, if he was that capable of averaging the numbers you suggest he would be starting. If coaches on 4 teams weren't willing to give him any extended minutes it's time to stop using the circumstances excuse. He's simply not that good, and the more people compare him to westbrook the more invalid your opinion becomes.

Its pretty amazing given the scouting,video and advanced analytics that every GM in the NBA including his current one is letting Westbrook like production for 3M a year simply slip through their fingers.

Or maybe Memphis is just really smart limiting to 15 mpg so that he doesn't show his true talent. Then they can maye sign him to a 4 year 10 M dollar deal trade Conoley for a star SG and then let Bayless explode. It much take a lot of patience to resist the teams like the Bulls, Hornets, Wizards or twolves that are starting absolute garbage at PG throwing great offers out there to pry away Bayless.

You, sir, are living in a bubble.. Just because he may have the skills or physical attributes like westbrook doesn't mean he has the athleticism/temprament/mentality/mental fortitude/IQ (which is questionalble for Westbrook as well) to bbe as good as Westbrook is.. Charlie Villanueva, at one point, during his high school days and early college days was a top prospect too.. he still has the ability but he is glued to the bench on a piss poor team in Detroit.. at some point, you gotta call it what it is.. At some point common sense has to kick in and reality has to to be accepted..

[Scase]

He's averaging 6/1/3 with 15mpg, if he was that capable of averaging the numbers you suggest he would be starting. If coaches on 4 teams weren't willing to give him any extended minutes it's time to stop using the circumstances excuse. He's simply not that good, and the more people compare him to westbrook the more invalid your opinion becomes.

Its pretty amazing given the scouting,video and advanced analytics that every GM in the NBA including his current one is letting Westbrook like production for 3M a year simply slip through their fingers.

Or maybe Memphis is just really smart limiting to 15 mpg so that he doesn't show his true talent. Then they can maye sign him to a 4 year 10 M dollar deal trade Conoley for a star SG and then let Bayless explode. It much take a lot of patience to resist the teams like the Bulls, Hornets, Wizards or twolves that are starting absolute garbage at PG throwing great offers out there to pry away Bayless.

You, sir, are living in a bubble.. Just because he may have the skills or physical attributes like westbrook doesn't mean he has the athleticism/temprament/mentality/mental fortitude/IQ (which is questionalble for Westbrook as well) to bbe as good as Westbrook is.. Charlie Villanueva, at one point, during his high school days and early college days was a top prospect too.. he still has the ability but he is glued to the bench on a piss poor team in Detroit.. at some point, you gotta call it what it is.. At some point common sense has to kick in and reality has to to be accepted..

LOL he was being sarcastic dude......

[Bsee]

He's averaging 6/1/3 with 15mpg, if he was that capable of averaging the numbers you suggest he would be starting. If coaches on 4 teams weren't willing to give him any extended minutes it's time to stop using the circumstances excuse. He's simply not that good, and the more people compare him to westbrook the more invalid your opinion becomes.

Its pretty amazing given the scouting,video and advanced analytics that every GM in the NBA including his current one is letting Westbrook like production for 3M a year simply slip through their fingers.

Or maybe Memphis is just really smart limiting to 15 mpg so that he doesn't show his true talent. Then they can maye sign him to a 4 year 10 M dollar deal trade Conoley for a star SG and then let Bayless explode. It much take a lot of patience to resist the teams like the Bulls, Hornets, Wizards or twolves that are starting absolute garbage at PG throwing great offers out there to pry away Bayless.

You, sir, are living in a bubble.. Just because he may have the skills or physical attributes like westbrook doesn't mean he has the athleticism/temprament/mentality/mental fortitude/IQ (which is questionalble for Westbrook as well) to bbe as good as Westbrook is.. Charlie Villanueva, at one point, during his high school days and early college days was a top prospect too.. he still has the ability but he is glued to the bench on a piss poor team in Detroit.. at some point, you gotta call it what it is.. At some point common sense has to kick in and reality has to to be accepted..

He's averaging 6/1/3 with 15mpg, if he was that capable of averaging the numbers you suggest he would be starting. If coaches on 4 teams weren't willing to give him any extended minutes it's time to stop using the circumstances excuse. He's simply not that good, and the more people compare him to westbrook the more invalid your opinion becomes.

Its pretty amazing given the scouting,video and advanced analytics that every GM in the NBA including his current one is letting Westbrook like production for 3M a year simply slip through their fingers.

Or maybe Memphis is just really smart limiting to 15 mpg so that he doesn't show his true talent. Then they can maye sign him to a 4 year 10 M dollar deal trade Conoley for a star SG and then let Bayless explode. It much take a lot of patience to resist the teams like the Bulls, Hornets, Wizards or twolves that are starting absolute garbage at PG throwing great offers out there to pry away Bayless.

You, sir, are living in a bubble.. Just because he may have the skills or physical attributes like westbrook doesn't mean he has the athleticism/temprament/mentality/mental fortitude/IQ (which is questionalble for Westbrook as well) to bbe as good as Westbrook is.. Charlie Villanueva, at one point, during his high school days and early college days was a top prospect too.. he still has the ability but he is glued to the bench on a piss poor team in Detroit.. at some point, you gotta call it what it is.. At some point common sense has to kick in and reality has to to be accepted..

1. He averaged 18/6/4 with 30 + minutes over what, 16 games last year? Also his numbers all time as a raptors starter aren't far off from that so really what are you getting at pulling those stats? I just laid out more relevant stats for you. Were you not watching last season when Bayless was dropping 30 single handedly putting the team on his back and bringing us back in to games?

2. Every scouting/recruiting analysts felt exactly the opposite about Bayless during his draft year. If you asked any scout about him at the time the majority would have put his ceiling higher than Westbrook's, and I guarantee you none of them were talking about Westbrook being more athletic the way you guys are. Like I said, he never got the same opportunity Westbrook did. Chauncey Billups ring a bell? He could have easily fell by the wayside like Bayless if he didn't get the right opportunity.

3. Bayless is just as athletic and at the attributes you listed in support of Westbrook being better. Mentality? Mental Fortitude? Many people would agree Westbrook is the worst in the league when it comes to that. His decision making is terrible. Him and Bayless have the same knocks on their game. offensively the only thing I see Westbrook having over Bayless is his ability to finish.

4. Kevin Love was asked who should be an all star in the league that hasn't broken out yet. His answer? Bayless.
Love being an all star himself is likely a better talent assesser than some forum jockeys. Kevin knows

5. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcqe9UXkc8o[/youtube]

^ You're gonna watch that and tell me with a straight face that guy isn't just as athletic as Westbrook? The proof is right in front of your eyes

[HEKTOR]

Calderon stepping up these past 2 games, proving he's better than Bayless.

[IMAN5]

I agree with you we shoulda kept him, but your comparisons are exaggerated.

[Bsee]

I agree with you we shoulda kept him, but your comparisons are exaggerated.

but how? Every scouting and draft service was projecting and comparing him to all stars.

http://nbadraft.net/players/jerryd-bayless

NBA comparison: Gilbert Arenas/Jay Williams

- also note how is athleticism and quickness are a 10. His passing is a 6 which is reasonable cause we all know he's not a good passer. But you can't discredit his athleticism because you don't like him since he's not a conservative, safe PG like Jose.

OJ Mayo's comparison was Ben Gordon


http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Jerryd-Bayless-1067/

Best Case: Monta Ellis (w/ better PG skills)

Westbrook's best case comparison was Leandro Barbosa


ESPN Insider: Bayless' combination of elite athleticism, shooting ability and quickness make him an excellent NBA prospect. One scout compared him to a better shooting, more intelligent Monta Ellis, another to Gilbert Arenas

As you can see, everyone was projecting him to be an NBA All star. Not to mention he averaged 19.7 ppg his freshman year at Arizona. That's extremely impressive especially in the conference he was in.


http://www.nba.com/draft2008/board/mock.html

^ Bayless was projected 4th in 5 different mock drafts. This was one of the most top heavy talented drafts in the past 15 years. Bayless goes 2-3 in most drafts.

You guys don't realize how great of a prospect we had and it's not like he doesn't produce when he gets the opportunity. End of 2010-2011, and last season when he was starting, anyone? Just look at his stats from that time.

So no, my comparisons are definitely not exaggerated because everyone was projecting him to be a star out of college.

The difference between him and Westbrook is that Bayless never got a consistent opportunity to develop like Westbrook did. Also Bayless was never utilized correctly. He's a scoring guard, those are his strengths. Give it to him and clear out and he's blowing by his defender or creating an open jumpshot for himself every time.

[rove]

Westbrook's career stat line playing with Durant on a championship contender:
34:12min, 42.9% FG, 0.5 3s, 29.1 3%, 4.7 FTM, 81.6% FT, 4.8 REB, 6.8 AST, 3.5 TO, 1.5 ST, 19.0 PPG

Your boy Bay's career stat line playing with (mostly) scrubs for 2+ years:
18:06min, 41.4% FG, 0.6 3s, 35.9 3%. 2.2 FTM, 82.2% FT, 1.8 REB, 2.8 AST, 1.4 TO, 0.5 ST, 8.1 PPG

I love BayBay's fanboys.. Logic doesn't really come into play

[Alfred]

Jerryd Bayless so far this season:

20 PER
64% TS%
7.3 assists per 36 minutes
15 minutes per game

He's looking great off of the bench.