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In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless

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Post#181 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Fri Nov 16, 2012 2:34 pm by Bsee

rove wrote:
It's based on the fact [by fact you mean opinion of scouting sites] that Bayless was always more highly touted and at the very least just as touted as Westbrook up until draft night [was more/evenly touted by scouts]. Bayless was projected[again, projection by scouts] to be better than Westbrook


Your idea is based on opinion/projection. There are a million players that are projected to be great. Oden was projected to be one of the top centers of all-time. Adam Morrison was projected to be a poor man's Larry Bird. They are not - THIS is fact. A player only gets so many chances. If Lin didn't bust out those couple of games, the Knicks planned to waive him and he would've most likely be gone from the NBA.

Are there outliers? Sure. But most of times these "projected great players" either toil around the league or just fall out of the NBA. Just look at Kwame, Darko and a million other high draft picks. And if by 4th or 5th team it hasn't happened, then too bad, there are other guys to fill their spot.

I'm not defending BC (I wanted him gone LOOONG ago) but to say BayBay will become a superstar if we played him is wishful thinking at best.


Oden you can chalk up to injuries, AMMO was a bust, etc. You just helped reinforced my point with the statement you made about Lin. But of course I see what your point is here with projections, and I agree with that but I'm talking about Bayless solely in this case.

My point isn't just that Bayless was touted as an elite prospect with all star potential by every single scout, it's that, combined with the evidence that he hasn't got a legitimate, consistent opportunity, and when he has gotten the opportunity he has shown what everyone thought he could become.

Bayless was never utilized correctly in my opinion. The guy is clearly as talented and as (more imo) athletic as Monta Ellis, and has the exact same mental deficiencies and drawbacks as Westbrook on offense (lack of court vision, bad passing, poor decision maker, "chucker"). Now I'm saying that he still has superstar potential, the same potential that he's always had that he's never gotten opportunity to fulfill and develop. That doesn't mean he'd become a star if he stayed here, but I do think with 30+ minutes a game he'd average 18+ PPG easily.

I'm going by what I've seen for years and what I still see in him. I still follow him now and watch Memphis games, it's unbelievable how unguardable this guy is in isolation when he has the ball. He can create his own shot or blow by his defender at will, he's explosive as hell and gets very high on his jumpshot.

I've also watched Monta Ellis since his high school days and Russell Westbrook a ton when he was at UCLA. I also watched Bayless a ton at Arizona. I'm not some Bayless homer that jumped on him because he became a raptor.

I've watched all 3 guys through all of their developmental stages and had no bias towards any. From what I've seen assessing all 3 there's no reason Bayless can't be as good as either if he had the same opportunity.
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Post#182 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:15 am by KnickerBonkerz

Da Boy Bay had another great game last night. We could definitely use his D at the point with Lowry out. Meanwhile Calderon is doing his best wacky waving inflatable tube man impression.
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Post#183 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 12:10 pm by KrazyP

Lowry-Bayless-Derozan-J.Johnson-Kleiza would have given us a very confident thug lineup at the 1/2/3. Not sure if it would have worked in terms of wins but that group wouldnt back down from anybody.
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Post#184 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 1:05 pm by Badonkadonk

KnickerBonkerz wrote:Da Boy Bay had another great game last night.

I don't care about Bayless one way or another, he's a decent backup in this league I guess ... but, 13 mins, 6pts, 1reb, 1ast, 2to, 3pf and a minus-2 against the Knicks subs qualifies as a great game?

Why so much love for somebody who has played for 4 franchises and never been able to earn starter's minutes? He's so obscure.
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Post#185 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 2:21 pm by Bsee

Badonkadonk wrote:
KnickerBonkerz wrote:Da Boy Bay had another great game last night.

I don't care about Bayless one way or another, he's a decent backup in this league I guess ... but, 13 mins, 6pts, 1reb, 1ast, 2to, 3pf and a minus-2 against the Knicks subs qualifies as a great game?

Why so much love for somebody who has played for 4 franchises and never been able to earn starter's minutes? He's so obscure.


he brought tough D and high energy. Got in to it with JR Smith after he got blatantly elbowed and shoved him hard



This soft team could use that toughness, everyone on this team except probably Lowry would have just taken that. I know Bargs would :lol:

Forget all the potential-all star talk, you keep Bayless as a piece on your team because he brings something no one else on the team does. Explosiveness, athleticism, offensive talent, DEFENSE, and toughness.

Instead we have these soft guys Calderon and JL III backing up Lowry :lol: :lol:
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Post#186 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 3:00 pm by sca

Bsee wrote:
Badonkadonk wrote:
KnickerBonkerz wrote:Da Boy Bay had another great game last night.

I don't care about Bayless one way or another, he's a decent backup in this league I guess ... but, 13 mins, 6pts, 1reb, 1ast, 2to, 3pf and a minus-2 against the Knicks subs qualifies as a great game?

Why so much love for somebody who has played for 4 franchises and never been able to earn starter's minutes? He's so obscure.


he brought tough D and high energy. Got in to it with JR Smith after he got blatantly elbowed and shoved him hard



This soft team could use that toughness, everyone on this team except probably Lowry would have just taken that. I know Bargs would :lol:

Forget all the potential-all star talk, you keep Bayless as a piece on your team because he brings something no one else on the team does. Explosiveness, athleticism, offensive talent, DEFENSE, and toughness.

Instead we have these soft guys Calderon and JL III backing up Lowry :lol: :lol:

What a great argument. He fought with JR Smith, so he played a great game.
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Post#187 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:18 pm by JV4MVP

JR Smith says that Bayless has small man syndrome :lol:

The 6-foot-2 Bayless shoved Smith in the face and then tried to get after the Knicks guard. A livid Bayless had to be restrained by teammates while Smith backpedaled away, laughing at the scene. “Other than me trying to get the ball, I don’t know what he could’ve been mad at,’’ Smith said after the Knicks’ 105-95 loss to the Grizzlies, their first defeat of the season. “Some small guards have a little man’s complex. They got to work that out.’’


http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/knicks/m ... IO1Y7h0XdN
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Post#188 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:21 pm by Bsee

sca wrote:What a great argument. He fought with JR Smith, so he played a great game.


Bsee wrote:He brought tough D and high energy


:lol: I watched the game, aside from some turnovers he played good. Memphis with Bayless 7-1. Raptors without Bayless 2-7. :lol:

One scout compared him to a better shooting, more intelligent Monta Ellis, another to Gilbert Arenas.


from the ESPN scouting report

Professional ESPN analyst opinions >>>> forum guys. :lol:

Gilbert Arenas himself even compared Bayless to...himself :lol:
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Post#189 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:29 pm by JV4MVP

Bsee wrote:
:lol: I watched the game, aside from some turnovers he played good. Memphis with Bayless 7-1. Raptors without Bayless 2-7. :lol:



Are you suggesting that Bayless' 15MPG plays a significant role in the Grizzlies 7-1 record?
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Post#190 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:32 pm by Bsee

Regression2u wrote:
Bsee wrote:
:lol: I watched the game, aside from some turnovers he played good. Memphis with Bayless 7-1. Raptors without Bayless 2-7. :lol:



Are you suggesting that Bayless' 15MPG plays a significant role in the Grizzlies 7-1 record?


not necessarily but I think him an Ellington combined have been great off the bench and definitely have a hand in their success so far. There's not much drop off when they go to their bench. From all the Memphis games I watched, Hubie Brown seems to think the same thing, he speaks glowingly of what they bring to the team.
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Post#191 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 5:59 pm by RealSuperfan

I'm not sure who's actually watched Memphis this year besides last night's game but Bayless has been a solid addition to Memphis' 2nd unit. Their starting lineup is obviously great and responsible for the bulk of their winning but the bench has come in and maintained the flow of the game. Memphis' bench gets underrated but Bayless has the ability to break the defense down as we all know and players like Pondexter are taking advantage of their open looks. I'm not saying Jerryd's carrying the Grizz but to say he hasn't been a positive addition isn't the truth. He's adjusted his game and doesn't play as erratic although I've seen him committ some avoidable TOs. Ellington practically took over the other night against Miami and Jerryd's become a part of that dynamic 2nd unit. It's only been 7 games but he's been shooting the ball at a great clip thus far. He obviousy won't sustain those %'s but so far so good. Consider the fact that Darrell Arthur is their best bench player and he hasn't even touched the floor yet and Memphis is looking really good. I'm happy to see Bayless contributing on a winning team.
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Post#192 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 7:06 pm by Scase

Bsee wrote:
sca wrote:What a great argument. He fought with JR Smith, so he played a great game.


Bsee wrote:He brought tough D and high energy


:lol: I watched the game, aside from some turnovers he played good. Memphis with Bayless 7-1. Raptors without Bayless 2-7. :lol:

Raptors with Bayless : 22–60, 23-43.
Bsee wrote:
One scout compared him to a better shooting, more intelligent Monta Ellis, another to Gilbert Arenas.


from the ESPN scouting report

Professional ESPN analyst opinions >>>> forum guys. :lol:

Gilbert Arenas himself even compared Bayless to...himself :lol:


The same ESPN that had Kwame Brown as the #1 pick of their mock draft in 2001 right?


See how easy it is to come up with pointless factoids and stats that prove your clear bias?
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Post#193 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 8:09 pm by D-BE-LAW

that boy bay
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Post#194 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 9:37 pm by Bsee

Scase wrote:
Bsee wrote:
sca wrote:What a great argument. He fought with JR Smith, so he played a great game.


Bsee wrote:He brought tough D and high energy


:lol: I watched the game, aside from some turnovers he played good. Memphis with Bayless 7-1. Raptors without Bayless 2-7. :lol:

Raptors with Bayless : 22–60, 23-43.
Bsee wrote:
One scout compared him to a better shooting, more intelligent Monta Ellis, another to Gilbert Arenas.


from the ESPN scouting report

Professional ESPN analyst opinions >>>> forum guys. :lol:

Gilbert Arenas himself even compared Bayless to...himself :lol:


The same ESPN that had Kwame Brown as the #1 pick of their mock draft in 2001 right?


See how easy it is to come up with pointless factoids and stats that prove your clear bias?


It was clear Kwame was a bust by watching him play in the league. Bayless actually shows he has the talent scouts claimed he did when he gets the minutes and the chance. His career stats playing 30+ minutes are 18/6/4........

He still hasn't been utilized properly in my opinion and when he's gotten extended minutes we've seen him single handedly keep us in games and drop 30 when no one else on this crap team could create a shot to save their lives. We've seen his scoring and take-over ability, the monta ellis like flashes when he's been given the chance. We've seen him put up great stats and go through successful stretches when given the starting job but some like to discount that.
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Post#195 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:08 pm by Scase

Yeah there was this other guy that had 13 good games, we should sign him to a big contract.
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Post#196 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sat Nov 17, 2012 11:59 pm by Bsee

It was more than that, remember 2 seasons ago when Jose got injured? Every time he got starter minutes and wasn't on a short leash, he proved his worth. Choker posted his career stats when getting 30+ minutes. I'd bet that's a pretty decent sample, at least enough where those stats he put up with those minutes have good worth.

Kevin Love was recently on Bill Simmons' podcast, ESPN's The BS Report earlier this week and Simmons asked Love who he thought is a guy in his generation that is going to break out , but hasn't yet"


Kevin Love wrote: "I always felt like my guy, Jerryd Bayless who's now up in Toronto...I felt like he has a chance to break out, cause he's the type of guy who that has the mentality that we all have...that they want to be great....they aren't going to take 'no' for an answer. He has the ability and the chance to be a very good player in this league.

He just has a different type of demeanor to him that we...you know, our generation kind of all has. You know, he plays hard every single play. He's just not going to take 'No' for an answer ...to go out there and try and get the job done. So he's just waiting for the right opportunity and a chance to break out. I think, Jerryd's right up there with a lot of other guys in our class He was right up there in high school, with the best players. I think he's right there among others."



That's coming from a perennial all star :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

The "top guys" in his class that he's referring to when he says Bayless is right up there with them are:

Kevin Love himself
OJ Mayo
Eric Gordon
Derrick Rose
Blake Griffin
James Harden

you don't let a guy with that elite talent level go and keep Calderon and take on John Lucas III instead :lol:
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Post#197 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 18, 2012 12:04 am by ballislife

We shouldve kept him as our backup and shipped Calderon out of town. He'd basically be an extension of Lowry on the floor.
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Post#198 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 18, 2012 1:51 am by Geddy

If we're going to pine over past point guards then I would rather have Jack on this team over Bayless. If anything Jack didn't come with an annoying name like "boy bay" or whatever it is.
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Post#199 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 18, 2012 5:59 am by Choker

Scase wrote:Yeah there was this other guy that had 13 good games, we should sign him to a big contract.


Kyrie Irving in college? :D
Danchan wrote:I honestly like Landry more than Demar.

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Post#200 Re: In Hindsight: Jerryd Bayless
Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:12 am by Aboozer

Bsee wrote:Bayless actually shows he has the talent scouts claimed he did when he gets the minutes and the chance. His career stats playing 30+ minutes are 18/6/4........


Career stats playing 30+ minutes
Lucas - 17.5/6/3.5
Kleiza - 18/6 shooting 50%+FG/40%+3PT
Ed Davis - 11/10/1.5 BLK
Gray - 11/11/2 AST
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