RealGM

sca wrote:

Aboozer wrote:

Bsee wrote:Bayless actually shows he has the talent scouts claimed he did when he gets the minutes and the chance. His career stats playing 30+ minutes are 18/6/4........

Career stats playing 30+ minutes
Lucas - 17.5/6/3.5
Kleiza - 18/6 shooting 50%+FG/40%+3PT
Ed Davis - 11/10/1.5 BLK
Gray - 11/11/2 AST

+999999999

Seriously people, PER36 stats and "when playing 30+ minutes" are misleading... Here's why:

If a rotation player who normally plays 15-20 minutes per game is playing 30+ minutes at a certain game, chances are he's playing much better that night than he usually does. A rotation player gets more minutes when he's on a good night, and that skews his PER36 averages. A starter who plays consistent minutes night in and night out doesn't have the same luxury. You can see a guy like Bayless putting up 20 points in 30 minutes on boxscore, but it's very unusual to see someone score 10 points in 15 minutes, because chances are his coach will keep him in the game after he scored that 10 points (unless it's a blowout).

Exactly what I wanted to say earlier. Bayless and players of his ilk doensn't play 30+ minutes because they can't do so consistently. Nobody in the NBA is trying to hold him back - every team wants talent at value if they can find it. You think if Bayless can sustain his per 36 rate and produce as a starter, the teams that had him wouldn't start him?

Per stats/projections are only useful when players are somewhat of the same caliber (eg. star vs star, starter v starter, bench players vs bench players). Otherwise you can pick someone who played for 4 minutes with 3 points, 2 rebs, 1 ast and say he'll average over 21 points, 14 rebs, 7 asts if he played 30 minutes. Or someone who only posted great stats over 13 games (Bustnani) or when he played over 30 minutes (BayBay) and say they should be an all-star.

KnickerBonkerz wrote:

sca wrote:What a great argument. He fought with JR Smith, so he played a great game.

Lmao where did he say that? Try reading dude...

Scase wrote:Yeah try reading dude.......your point was he played a great game somone disagreed with your statement and he defended it. Therefore he defended the statement of Bayless having a great game and one of the defenses used was that "he got into it with JR smith".

Maybe you should try that reading thing.

One of the defenses I used was that he brought toughness, and an example of that toughness, albeit extreme was his scuffle with Smith. I said it more to bring light to the fact that our team is a bunch of wimps and it should be a no brainer to keep a guy like that around who brings that kind of toughness on top of all the talent he possesses.

rove wrote:Exactly what I wanted to say earlier. Bayless and players of his ilk doensn't play 30+ minutes because they can't do so consistently. Nobody in the NBA is trying to hold him back - every team wants talent at value if they can find it. You think if Bayless can sustain his per 36 rate and produce as a starter, the teams that had him wouldn't start him?

Per stats/projections are only useful when players are somewhat of the same caliber (eg. star vs star, starter v starter, bench players vs bench players). Otherwise you can pick someone who played for 4 minutes with 3 points, 2 rebs, 1 ast and say he'll average over 21 points, 14 rebs, 7 asts if he played 30 minutes. Or someone who only posted great stats over 13 games (Bustnani) or when he played over 30 minutes (BayBay) and say they should be an all-star.

KEVIN LOVE wrote:"He's just not going to take 'No' for an answer ...to go out there and try and get the job done. So he's just waiting for the right opportunity and a chance to break out. I think, Jerryd's right up there with a lot of other guys in our class. He was right up there in high school, with the best players"

funny how I've been echoing that sentiment this entire thread, and Love reinforced that point of view. I had no idea until I last quoted him that that's what he exactly said, but like I said, and like Love said, he just needs the right opportunity and a chance to break out. Great basketball minds think alike

And your point seems kind of illogical. I get the basis of it which I tend to agree with but saying if he could sustain that production over 30 minutes someone would play him those minutes but he can't so they don't is incorrect. We don't know if he can sustain it because why? Because he's never gotten the opportunity to show whether he can or not! Forget his PER 36, when he has played as a starter, playing heavy minutes, he's put up great stats at a consistent rate.

The big thing here is we should of kept bayless rather then calderon and JL3

the boy bay had another solid outing going against tony parkour

Norma Wick wrote:the boy bay had another solid outing going against tony parkour

1-8 shooting, 3 assists, 4 fouls and 1 TO in 21 minutes... sounds about right for the boy bay

Shot badly, lost only by 4, and they're 12-3 for the season. Hmmmm.

Choker wrote:Shot badly, lost only by 4, and they're 12-3 for the season. Hmmmm.

No hmm necessary when you have Rudy Gay, Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol all playing great + some help from Conley's PG consistency and Tony Allen's defense.

Regression2u wrote:

Choker wrote:Shot badly, lost only by 4, and they're 12-3 for the season. Hmmmm.

No hmm necessary when you have Rudy Gay, Zach Randolph and Marc Gasol all playing great + some help from Conley's PG consistency and Tony Allen's defense.

Hmmm they had all those things last year and didn't look as dominant.

I see Bayless developing into a more athletic Chauncy Billups. I really liked him on this team. I was dissapointed they let him go.

Choker wrote:Shot badly, lost only by 4, and they're 12-3 for the season. Hmmmm.

They might be 13-2 if Bayless hadn't turned the ball over on their chance to tie. Conley has been playing the best ball of his career. 17 abysmal minutes from Bayless has little to do with their record.

gbball wrote:I see Bayless developing into a more athletic Chauncy Billups. I really liked him on this team. I was dissapointed they let him go.

lol whaaa? He plays NOTHING like Chauncey. Couldn't be more opposite

gbball wrote:I see Bayless developing into a more athletic Chauncy Billups. I really liked him on this team. I was dissapointed they let him go.

Same here, but I can't act like we gave away a can't miss prospect. The appeal to Bayless on the Raps is that we potentially found a guy that we could have molded and further developed, and failed to test those waters out to clear out the smoke. That's what pisses me off the most about this whole situation. As much as I think people overblow his lack of playmaking, he still lacks discipline necessary for the point guard position.

rapsfanhere wrote:They might be 13-2 if Bayless hadn't turned the ball over on their chance to tie. Conley has been playing the best ball of his career. 17 abysmal minutes from Bayless has little to do with their record.

They've been crying for a quality back up point guard for years and needed a player to fill the void of O.J. Mayo's off the bench scoring. Bayless covers both for Memphis.

If Bayless were here, Casey could run his beloved 2 pg lineup and it would work....

Choker wrote:Shot badly, lost only by 4, and they're 12-3 for the season. Hmmmm.

I doubt that says a lot about Bayless.

Fact is, despite all the things people whine about on this board justifably, letting Bayless and Johnson go were not two of them. Hell, if Johnson stayed one more year and played like he is now in Sacremento, we'd be giving another team a second round pick to take him off our hands.

JunkYardSubs wrote:

Choker wrote:Shot badly, lost only by 4, and they're 12-3 for the season. Hmmmm.

I doubt that says a lot about Bayless.

Fact is, despite all the things people whine about on this board justifably, letting Bayless and Johnson go were not two of them. Hell, if Johnson stayed one more year and played like he is now in Sacremento, we'd be giving another team a second round pick to take him off our hands.

Kyle Lowry is averaging about the same thing or less what Bayless was averaging as a starter. Even though the sample size was small, you could take his numbers from his Portland days, his 2 or so years in Toronto and you will see he's always been consistent as a starter.

You could've kept one for a 3 year deal about 9 million or somewhat around there. For Lowry you gave up a 1st rounder not lotto protected.

For Johnson you gave up a 1st rounder to get a benchwarmer, then you turned him to a serviceable defensive starter and traded him for a 2nd round pick.

Perfect asset management by non other than Clownangelo.

I still like Lowry better than Bayless, but considering what we gave up, depending on what happens to that pick it may have been better to just have kept Bayless and trade away/let Calderon expire.

J Dilla wrote:For Johnson you gave up a 1st rounder to get a benchwarmer, then you turned him to a serviceable defensive starter and traded him for a 2nd round pick.

This argument is disingenuous, as it was a late 1st vs. an early 2nd. Nothing of value was lost.

For that, we took a chance on an athletically gifted, young player who wore out his welcome under a very good, defensive minded head coach in Chicago. Turns out he is a headcase and wore out his welcome here, so his value eroded a bit. Judging by his horrid performance in Sacramento, it has eroded even more.

While the (low-risk) gamble made sense at the time, I doubt anybody would take a similar risk now for JJ.

Bayless can get you those easy buckets at the end of the game when everyone's tired......but only when he's given the latitude to do so, like here.