Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani

[Y0DA]

If he does get traded, which I highly doubt, I hope like hell it's not for another 4-5. A trade needs to result in addressing a need, i.e. SF.

[There There]

Should have traded his ass years ago. He's a horrible on-court teammate. The last 2 games was an embarrassment of selfish play on his part

I don't think he is selfish in nature, perhaps this is the instruction from the coaching staffs (shoot more).
However, the coach needs to give more instruction on focusing good shot selection. They can probably practice some plays with shot blocker coming his way.

The other horrible play is a quick catch and shoot at baseline, where he should turn and put the ball on the floor, or backing down his man. Even face up and wait for cutters would work.

He is 27 and in his seventh year.

If he needs practice with shot blockers coming at him, to understand that his offensive game is the blackest of black holes, then he is more of a lost cause then could ever be imagined.

Whether or not it's him being "selfish", it's really just semantics.

Maybe it is that he just has a ridiculously low basketball IQ ?

Maybe it is that he is incapable of reacting to the speed of the NBA game ?

I'm not sure it really matters at this point. He alternates through the game from looking lost to looking indifferent and the only thing that ever stands out positively is if he happens to get hot and his shot starts dropping.

I have spent six years alternating between defending him and hoping that we'd finally start seeing something more from him. I know I personally cannot do it any longer, and would be thrilled to see the organization move on.

It doesn't mean just dump him for nothing, as I think there would be value somewhere for him. But it really does start killing the enjoyment I take from watching this team play when I see him on the court, especially in close late game scenarios when his indifference is absolutely hurting this team the most.

[dagger]

How about Ilyasova?

He's struggling and apparently in Skiles doghouse...not that Bargnani necessarily fits them any better...but a change of scenery might be good for both guys.

I was thinking Milwaukee would be a good fit for Bargs. The Bucks are playing an up-tempo style this season and, Bargs should fit in. I don't know what we could get back in return. They don't have anything to fill our SF hole.

That's the problem. You can make a case for Bargnani on certain teams, but don't necessarily get any value back. This summer's FA crop is weak, so cap space is not going to do it. The draft is weak, so unless you get a high lottery pick, hard to see enough value to offset taking on a bad contract.

One thought I had is CHI since they will likely have to amnesty Boozer next summer. Swapping out Boozer for Bargnani might be more palatable than throwing Boozer overboard, since they have Taj Gibson, too. But that's a huge contract to swallow for the Raptors, so there would have to be significant compensation: In this case, likely the first round pick CHA owes CHI, and the rights to Nikola Mirotic.

Hollinger has a list on Insider of the biggest disappointments so far. No, Bargnani isn't on it, nor is Wilson Chandler. but it gives you an idea about players who might be available if they don't come around.

The list:

Roy Hibbert
Danilo Gallinari
Kevin Durant
Ersan Ilyasova
Manu Ginobilli
Josh Smith
Tyreke Evams
Both New Orleans point guards (Austin Rivers is honored as the worst draft pick so far.)

Seriously, I thought NO would have jumped all over a deal for Jose during the summer. He could have mentored Rivers. But alas, they have little to offer for him now, no contracts large enough to offset Jose's $11.5 million (with trade kicker). Hibbert is sucking so badly he gets #1 on the list. He's shooting 38% from the field and has been to the line 11 times in eight games. He was benched for almost the entire fourth quarter last night, and he's paid 30% more than Andrea right now, with full annual increases to look forward to for five seasons.

Gallinari is interesting because of his positional play and rebounding, but boy does his shot selection suck. I would trade him for Andrea for positional balance, but he would drive everyone here crazy before too long.

Ilyasova is the classic contract year over-achiever. Doesn't bring anything different than Bargnani, doesn't fill a need, can't play C on switches - his man D against centers would be awful.

Durant - he's only disappointing in relative terms. No trade happening there.

Manu - too old. Love the guy, but he's just too old now.

Smith - free agent next summer. Will be overpaid, and has said he wants to go to a contender. So he's a flight risk.

Evans - don't need a SG who can't figure out how to play the game. His efficiency is ugly. And he's an RFA this summer.

[dTox]

Funny part is, last year I was proposing a Bargnani for Verejao swap when he went on that 13 game streak (which would have been the best time to trade him) and was swamped with negative responses

[TheGoodDoctor]

The time to trade him was draft day.

[team edward]

I don't necessarily disagree with the notion of trading Bargnani, but I don't think Chisolm's logic is sound. First he says Bargnani was amazing last year, now he sucks, so therefore he doens't fit with our no-talent all-hustle team. The two reasons are not connected. Either decide he doesn't fit because of style, or decide to ditch him becuase he's lazy and unpredictable in performance.

If you think he doesn't fit and you wanted to trade him, last year was the time, not now. Bargnani is playing the worst basketball of his career, so you're not getting much for him.

Best idea is to force him to get in shape, work with coaches on his deficiencies, and limit his playing time where's he's not helping the team until he's back to the form we expect.

[ATLTimekeeper]

He has value to certain teams, I'm sure, but they won't want to give up anything other than a problem for him. "It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani when he's playing like garbage, the team is losing and the President is down to his last straw." That's not the time to trade him at all. As much as I want him gone and BC with him, I can't picture a palatable move. Boozer seems optimistic, and he would destroy the salary cap situation for any new GM coming in.

[swirsk]

I've never been a huge Bargnani fan but I think we should give it some time. I don't know if it's necessarily an issue of play style or attitude as much as it is him just not playing well.

It would be a relief if we didn't have to deal with him any more but he's probably a player we want to sell high on.

[Mister Ze]

The Nuggets have a $13M trade exception from the Nene trade that they could use to absorb Bargnani's horrendous contract. In return they could take back Wilson Chandler and possibly Mozgov.

[TheGoodDoctor]

[One thought I had is CHI since they will likely have to amnesty Boozer next summer. Swapping out Boozer for Bargnani might be more palatable than throwing Boozer overboard, since they have Taj Gibson, too. But that's a huge contract to swallow for the Raptors, so there would have to be significant compensation: In this case, likely the first round pick CHA owes CHI, and the rights to Nikola Mirotic.

That is definitely a very steep price and risky if that pick falls out of the top 3.

Personally I wouldn't mind running that risk BUT I think Colangelo would avoid it due to the amount of incoming big men (Mirotic, Boozer and potentially Noels or Zeller if Shabazz is drafted).

Funny part is, last year I was proposing a Bargnani for Verejao swap when he went on that 13 game streak (which would have been the best time to trade him) and was swamped with negative responses

That's still awful...no thanks.

[Mister Ze]

Funny part is, last year I was proposing a Bargnani for Verejao swap when he went on that 13 game streak (which would have been the best time to trade him) and was swamped with negative responses

That's still awful...no thanks.

For Cleveland, yes.

[Kabookalu]

I've never been a huge Bargnani fan but I think we should give it some time. I don't know if it's necessarily an issue of play style or attitude as much as it is him just not playing well.

It would be a relief if we didn't have to deal with him any more but he's probably a player we want to sell high on.

That's exactly the problem, he can play like an all star just as easily as he can play like a scrub. This organization has been surrounding him with the conditions that were believed to get him engaged. We thought we found the answer last season when he went on that all star streak, but now he has plummeted, AGAIN.

[RNsteve]

I''ve been a huge Bargs fan-when the guy is on, he can be near unstoppable.
But with the way this team is now constructed I would consider trading him for a B+ or better SF. The team simply is not going to benefit from trading bargs for cap space and bench filler.

Look maybe Bargs role on this team needs to be changed. Maybe he is better suited off the bench as the 6th , where he could be that offense spark we need in our 2nd unit.

But to trade the guy when his value is low, for something that is not going to improve this team(ie A legit starting SF) is beyond foolish and short sighted.

[dTox]

Funny part is, last year I was proposing a Bargnani for Verejao swap when he went on that 13 game streak (which would have been the best time to trade him) and was swamped with negative responses

That's still awful...no thanks.

I think you need to follow Verejao's game more closely. Right now he's playing like one of the best C's on the planet

[C Court]

Bargnani is my favorite Raptor, but even I voted 'trade him.'

[There There]

He has value to certain teams, I'm sure, but they won't want to give up anything other than a problem for him. "It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani when he's playing like garbage, the team is losing and the President is down to his last straw." That's not the time to trade him at all. As much as I want him gone and BC with him, I can't picture a palatable move. Boozer seems optimistic, and he would destroy the salary cap situation for any new GM coming in.

He would absolutely be a fit in D'Antoni's system, but there's no way the Lakers would give up Gasol for him, so a third team would definitely be required to make salaries match.

Miami could use him as another spot up three point shooter off the bench, and they definitely have the lineup around him to hide most of his deficiencies. Miller/Anthony ?

Never underestimate a team like Sacramento making a stupid deal and actually giving real value.

Beyond that though, I agree that the teams which could use him, and could offer us something back that would not be negative value, is probably fairly limited.

[dagger]

The Nuggets have a $13M trade exception from the Nene trade that they could use to absorb Bargnani's horrendous contract. In return they could take back Wilson Chandler and possibly Mozgov.

The issue with DEN is two fold. They have Faried and he was just named Player of the Week. Also, they need to do a significant salary dump to avoid tax now that they have signed Lawson to an extension. This deal would see them adding net salary- not a concept. They have to move long-term dollars in a Bargnani trade - Wilson would only equal about half of AB's money, so we would have to get another multi-year deal and the only multiyear deals that they have are players like Fournier. They need Fournier in case Iguodala opts out, although I doubt that he will.

I think the problem with Chisholm's article is that he's looking to do a deal soon, but I think Bargnani can't be moved until near the deadline - or even near the next draft - when teams that failed to live up to expectations, or face a future tax hit, will look to move a large sum of future dollars.

An example: Chicago may have to amnesty Boozer. They could trade him to us, with compensation like the CHA future first and Nikola Mirotic. But they won't do that at this point of the season. If they think Mirotic is coming next season, they might part with Luol Deng, but would want Jose for his expiring. Again, that is not something they would consider doing until the trade deadline and only if their situation goes south.

[StopitLeo]

Once it was clear that Bargnani wasn't going to be a superstar, especially being the #1 pick, he should have been moved.

He is a good player who could play an important role on a team where he is the 3rd option. The problem is that we have tried to have him as option #1 or #2 during his time here.

At this point it is hard to guess what we could even get for him. Any ideas for teams with that kind of guy who would want a stretch 4 that can't rebound? Houston? Milwaukee? Orlando? Washington?

[mirrornick]

If he does get traded, which I highly doubt, I hope like hell it's not for another 4-5. A trade needs to result in addressing a need, i.e. SF.

Agree. Amir/Ed are good enough for a temporary solution because of their defensive/rebounding skills. If Andrea can somehow be used in a trade to bring in a good SF, then I'm all for trading Bargs.

Lowry/Jose
DD/ Ross
Gay/ AA
Ed/ Amir
Jonas/ Gray

This group has a lot of potential , especially defensively. Now all BC needs to do is contact Memphis' GM and sell Bargs.

[COY0607]

I don't necessarily disagree with the notion of trading Bargnani, but I don't think Chisolm's logic is sound. First he says Bargnani was amazing last year, now he sucks, so therefore he doens't fit with our no-talent all-hustle team. The two reasons are not connected. Either decide he doesn't fit because of style, or decide to ditch him becuase he's lazy and unpredictable in performance.

If you think he doesn't fit and you wanted to trade him, last year was the time, not now. Bargnani is playing the worst basketball of his career, so you're not getting much for him.

Best idea is to force him to get in shape, work with coaches on his deficiencies, and limit his playing time where's he's not helping the team until he's back to the form we expect.

the two reasons don't have to be connected since last year was always going to be a lost year... this team was not trying to accomplish anything last year (unless you think trying to get a high pick is something)... it was openly stated that we were basically tanking.. no point in trading him then

this year on the other hand, their is a clear identity for this team (tough gritty defensive), and a clear goal (playoffs- even if it means getting 8th and being swept).... bargnani doesnt fit at all, and as long as he is a starter he will be seen as a leader/face of the team...

atleast if he comes off the bench in a limited role he wont be seen as a defining player on the team.... and honestly he can contribute a lot more in that position, his game is made for coming off the bench as the sixth man (strictly one dimensional player who doesn't always put in 100% - see terry, crawford)