Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
I truly am surprised. I honestly and truly did not think it was possible for him to rebound worse than his historical bad past but here he is proving me wrong. No 7 footer playing 30 mpg has ever come within 2.5 rebounds per 36 of his ineptitude. People say he doesn't try but really you'd have to TRY to not rebound to be on the floor for 35 mpg and grab less than 5 rpg.
His current rate would place him 4th in rebounding..AMONG PGs !
He is rebounding at roughly the same rate as JEREMY LIN.
He badly needs a change of scenery he's completely given up and we should do the same.The worst thing is that this organization has done everything to support and coddle him. If he thinks things are bad now wait till he ends up somewhere like the Kings.
His current rate would place him 4th in rebounding..AMONG PGs !
He is rebounding at roughly the same rate as JEREMY LIN.
He badly needs a change of scenery he's completely given up and we should do the same.The worst thing is that this organization has done everything to support and coddle him. If he thinks things are bad now wait till he ends up somewhere like the Kings.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
Death Knight wrote:http://www.nba.com/raptors/video/andrea-bargnani-nov-17-2012
Listen to this POS! Talk talk talk. Never does anything about it. Doesn't care. Stealing money. Chilling. Want to punch him in the face.
Watch the Casey interview, its just as bad. Says Bargs is who he is. Can do it in short stretches but needs to be consistent. Reporters are starting to press him hard on why Bargs isn't energetic or into games. Casey says Bargs is not a rah-rah guy but all Casey cares about is putting the ball in the basket, defense, and rebounding. (Of which, Bargs is only marginally good at one of three.)
Casey blames the D problem on the 'new guys' needing time to pick it up and understand rotations.
I used to watch all the pre and post game shows but now I can't stand them. Too much BS. Like losing Fields somehow hurts the team even though McG and Kleiza are giving us more production and less blooper reels. Or that our D was amazing in IND when the Pacers just had a horrible horrible game. D has been bad all year.
Casey is starting to crack though. He will lose it eventually and throw Bargs under the bus. That will be fun.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
I think right now I would trade Bargnani for Oakafor.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
Too Late Crew wrote:I truly am surprised. I honestly and truly did not think it was possible for him to rebound worse than his historical bad past but here he is proving me wrong. No 7 footer playing 30 mpg has ever come within 2.5 rebounds per 36 of his ineptitude. People say he doesn't try but really you'd have to TRY to not rebound to be on the floor for 35 mpg and grab less than 5 rpg.
His current rate would place him 4th in rebounding..AMONG PGs !
He is rebounding at roughly the same rate as JEREMY LIN.
He badly needs a change of scenery he's completely given up and we should do the same.The worst thing is that this organization has done everything to support and coddle him. If he thinks things are bad now wait till he ends up somewhere like the Kings.
Lol JEREMY LIN!!!!
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
He's terrible. He doesn't have the fire that players need to be great. DeRozan does. Bargs doesnt understand what he can do with the talent he has, he truly is a waste of height. If he was 5 inches shorter he'd be out of the league.
BC needs to do something asap... there's no time to wait here. I still have yet to hear from BC since the season started, he knows everyones going to scold him.
BC needs to do something asap... there's no time to wait here. I still have yet to hear from BC since the season started, he knows everyones going to scold him.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
If they're not going to trade him, bring his ass off the bench. The guy is literally sucking the life and fire out of the team.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
lucky777s wrote:
Casey blames the D problem on the 'new guys' needing time to pick it up and understand rotations.
I used to watch all .
And to think it was only 2 months ago that Casey was so happy to have a full training camp for this stuff.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
Too Late Crew wrote:I truly am surprised. I honestly and truly did not think it was possible for him to rebound worse than his historical bad past but here he is proving me wrong. No 7 footer playing 30 mpg has ever come within 2.5 rebounds per 36 of his ineptitude. People say he doesn't try but really you'd have to TRY to not rebound to be on the floor for 35 mpg and grab less than 5 rpg.
His current rate would place him 4th in rebounding..AMONG PGs !
He is rebounding at roughly the same rate as JEREMY LIN.
He badly needs a change of scenery he's completely given up and we should do the same.The worst thing is that this organization has done everything to support and coddle him. If he thinks things are bad now wait till he ends up somewhere like the Kings.
Your narrow focus is the reason why I say now is not the time to trade Bargs. He averaged less than 5 rebounds last year. If you step out from the trees to see the forrest, you'll find he has been this bad before.
It's only 9 games. Consider all of his 7 years and you can easily find similar stretches where he's been this bad. These stretches can be hot or cold streaks lasting 13 ( ) or 20 or even 30 games. Now it's cold.
He doesn't normally start off cold but this was the first summer he didn't play for Italy, so he's more out of shape than usual, exacerbaing this coldness. He's not going to be this bad for the whole season.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
Wham! wrote:lucky777s wrote:
Casey blames the D problem on the 'new guys' needing time to pick it up and understand rotations.
I used to watch all .
And to think it was only 2 months ago that Casey was so happy to have a full training camp for this stuff.
If he tells it like it is he'll be on the first plane out of here. The man has proven he can coach, but he's handcuffed.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
Tacoma wrote:Too Late Crew wrote:I truly am surprised. I honestly and truly did not think it was possible for him to rebound worse than his historical bad past but here he is proving me wrong. No 7 footer playing 30 mpg has ever come within 2.5 rebounds per 36 of his ineptitude. People say he doesn't try but really you'd have to TRY to not rebound to be on the floor for 35 mpg and grab less than 5 rpg.
His current rate would place him 4th in rebounding..AMONG PGs !
He is rebounding at roughly the same rate as JEREMY LIN.
He badly needs a change of scenery he's completely given up and we should do the same.The worst thing is that this organization has done everything to support and coddle him. If he thinks things are bad now wait till he ends up somewhere like the Kings.
Your narrow focus is the reason why I say now is not the time to trade Bargs. He averaged less than 5 rebounds last year. If you step out from the trees to see the forrest, you'll find he has been this bad before.
It's only 9 games. Consider all of his 7 years and you can easily find similar stretches where he's been this bad. These stretches can be hot or cold streaks lasting 13 ( ) or 20 or even 30 games. Now it's cold.
He doesn't normally start off cold but this was the first summer he didn't play for Italy, so he's more out of shape than usual, exacerbaing this coldness. He's not going to be this bad for the whole season.
Your suggestion of waiting til he's on a hot streak is just as narrow.
You really think that GMs being paid millions of dollars with stats gurus coming out the ass will suddenly forget 7 years of prior play and be swayed by him being on a hot streak? Stats don't lie, he's mediocre and will be traded with that value in mind. Him having another 13 game all star performance will not change that.
His value is pretty much cemented where it is unless he has a mindblowing full season performance.
Props TZ!
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
At this point i would look at anything out there that we can get. Something more useful or someone who is having a down year. Some players i might target:
SAC - Tyreke Evans - He has had a bad year there as well but i think a move would be nice for him. Same position as Derozan but we need to get as much talent as possible. We can figure the rest out later.
BOS - Jeff Green - Boston needs some production from their bigs when KG goes. They still have a small window. With Rondo defending the point and PP and KG providing the assists and leadership Bargs should be able to play well here.
OKC - Perkins - I know OKC might be trying to save some money but with Harden gone they need some talent. They hardly get any scoring from their bigs. Ibaka can go back to defending while Bargs stretches the D out. Perkins is on a shorter contract and can start while JV develops. He gives us toughness and grit.
NYC - Stoudamire- I know he is Injury prone and a bit selfish plus no defence but he does have talent. His contract is on for 2 more years. We could send back Fields and Bargs for Stoudamire which gives us good scoring from the PF position. Lowry, Derozan and Amare are a good place to start. Val can play at his spot at the 5. Amare also bring some toughness. As much as i dislike him and agree he is a bit cuckoo he does bring and edge and solid talent to our team. With no other dominent scorer like melo he might even thrive. Plus its 2 more years after this year so its not a major long term commitment. We also get rid of Field's contract. This is if New York believes that Melo and Amare cannot coexist and they need some decent talent/role players coming back.
CHI - Boozer - Chicago is not going anywhere this year. Rose will not be back till Feb or Mar. They will probably go for a top 10 pick and Bargs would add some solid talent which they could use as a stretch 4 and secondary scorer. Plus Noah works well to back him up.
CHA - Gordon - We save a year and also bring back some much needed bench scoring. A legit scorer on the bench. Bobcats add more talent which might develop. Kidd-Gilchrist is a solid SF alogn with Biyombo to play with Bargs upfront.
DET - Villnaueva - Highly doubt BC would bring Charlie back for Bargs of all people but if Will Bynum is also thrown in we save some money and Charlie comes back to his rookie team. he provides some legit flexibility and a change of scenery might do him well. Again a PF but atleast he can defend.
WIZ - Okafor - Give me some toughness upfront. We save some money and Bargs goes to play with Nene. Okafor can start while Val learns.
DEN - Chandler - He is not getting any time. He should be able to start and get major minutes with us. Bargs gives them some solid bench scoring and a stretch 4.
SAC - Tyreke Evans - He has had a bad year there as well but i think a move would be nice for him. Same position as Derozan but we need to get as much talent as possible. We can figure the rest out later.
BOS - Jeff Green - Boston needs some production from their bigs when KG goes. They still have a small window. With Rondo defending the point and PP and KG providing the assists and leadership Bargs should be able to play well here.
OKC - Perkins - I know OKC might be trying to save some money but with Harden gone they need some talent. They hardly get any scoring from their bigs. Ibaka can go back to defending while Bargs stretches the D out. Perkins is on a shorter contract and can start while JV develops. He gives us toughness and grit.
NYC - Stoudamire- I know he is Injury prone and a bit selfish plus no defence but he does have talent. His contract is on for 2 more years. We could send back Fields and Bargs for Stoudamire which gives us good scoring from the PF position. Lowry, Derozan and Amare are a good place to start. Val can play at his spot at the 5. Amare also bring some toughness. As much as i dislike him and agree he is a bit cuckoo he does bring and edge and solid talent to our team. With no other dominent scorer like melo he might even thrive. Plus its 2 more years after this year so its not a major long term commitment. We also get rid of Field's contract. This is if New York believes that Melo and Amare cannot coexist and they need some decent talent/role players coming back.
CHI - Boozer - Chicago is not going anywhere this year. Rose will not be back till Feb or Mar. They will probably go for a top 10 pick and Bargs would add some solid talent which they could use as a stretch 4 and secondary scorer. Plus Noah works well to back him up.
CHA - Gordon - We save a year and also bring back some much needed bench scoring. A legit scorer on the bench. Bobcats add more talent which might develop. Kidd-Gilchrist is a solid SF alogn with Biyombo to play with Bargs upfront.
DET - Villnaueva - Highly doubt BC would bring Charlie back for Bargs of all people but if Will Bynum is also thrown in we save some money and Charlie comes back to his rookie team. he provides some legit flexibility and a change of scenery might do him well. Again a PF but atleast he can defend.
WIZ - Okafor - Give me some toughness upfront. We save some money and Bargs goes to play with Nene. Okafor can start while Val learns.
DEN - Chandler - He is not getting any time. He should be able to start and get major minutes with us. Bargs gives them some solid bench scoring and a stretch 4.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
I think at this point with his value at a low he has to be moved as part of a package in order to get a good return. The only question is which young piece would the team be willing to move. At the moment Ed looks like the only moveable piece that teams would be interested in, but I personally would like to see Ed stay with the team. The rest of the pieces are either unproven, have bad contracts, total crap or a combination of those.
On the other hand I do agree with some of the others here that simply getting him off the team, even if it brings back peanuts, would be a step in the right direction.
On the other hand I do agree with some of the others here that simply getting him off the team, even if it brings back peanuts, would be a step in the right direction.
Inevitable wrote:Geddy is a good mod actually
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
TheFreshPrince wrote:Wham! wrote:lucky777s wrote:
Casey blames the D problem on the 'new guys' needing time to pick it up and understand rotations.
I used to watch all .
And to think it was only 2 months ago that Casey was so happy to have a full training camp for this stuff.
If he tells it like it is he'll be on the first plane out of here. The man has proven he can coach, but he's handcuffed.
Unfortunately this is the sad truth...6+ years of making excuses for our blessed #1 pick.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
So I'm reading the TSN article and I find this...
Unbelievable.
"We can't afford to play such bad defence -- especially against this type of team," Bargnani said. "One day we play good defence and then there are games like today where we play very bad defence, so I can't say it's getting better. We have to focus more and give a better effort."
Unbelievable.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
I fear that BC would be crazy enough to let Bargnani stay on this team under a different coach if he believed that Casey was holding him back. He has been coddled for 6 years so why not keep it up some more.
Inevitable wrote:Geddy is a good mod actually
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
A GM needs to sell a trade to the fans. That includes the casual/most with the hardcore/lesser. First thing I do as a fan when a trade goes down is check their stats.
Bargs at present:
8 games .357 fg% .361 3 point fg % 4.8 total rebounds 17.0 points
That's a tough sell in the papers. If he goes on a hot streak it will boost his stats which imho makes it easier to justify a GM making a move for Bargs. Or at least I hope. A GM can likely see Bargs for what he is. But if he were to take a fly on him, by likely getting rid of someone he's not fond of in the first place or whatever, he'll need to sell him. Hard to sell the Bargs on his career stats and present stats for the year.
Bargs at present:
8 games .357 fg% .361 3 point fg % 4.8 total rebounds 17.0 points
That's a tough sell in the papers. If he goes on a hot streak it will boost his stats which imho makes it easier to justify a GM making a move for Bargs. Or at least I hope. A GM can likely see Bargs for what he is. But if he were to take a fly on him, by likely getting rid of someone he's not fond of in the first place or whatever, he'll need to sell him. Hard to sell the Bargs on his career stats and present stats for the year.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
guy guys guys..this season doesn't count because Lowry got injured..let's wait until next year to make a proper evaluation.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
isyed wrote:At this point i would look at anything out there that we can get. Something more useful or someone who is having a down year. Some players i might target:
SAC - Tyreke Evans - He has had a bad year there as well but i think a move would be nice for him. Same position as Derozan but we need to get as much talent as possible. We can figure the rest out later.
BOS - Jeff Green - Boston needs some production from their bigs when KG goes. They still have a small window. With Rondo defending the point and PP and KG providing the assists and leadership Bargs should be able to play well here.
OKC - Perkins - I know OKC might be trying to save some money but with Harden gone they need some talent. They hardly get any scoring from their bigs. Ibaka can go back to defending while Bargs stretches the D out. Perkins is on a shorter contract and can start while JV develops. He gives us toughness and grit.
NYC - Stoudamire- I know he is Injury prone and a bit selfish plus no defence but he does have talent. His contract is on for 2 more years. We could send back Fields and Bargs for Stoudamire which gives us good scoring from the PF position. Lowry, Derozan and Amare are a good place to start. Val can play at his spot at the 5. Amare also bring some toughness. As much as i dislike him and agree he is a bit cuckoo he does bring and edge and solid talent to our team. With no other dominent scorer like melo he might even thrive. Plus its 2 more years after this year so its not a major long term commitment. We also get rid of Field's contract. This is if New York believes that Melo and Amare cannot coexist and they need some decent talent/role players coming back.
CHI - Boozer - Chicago is not going anywhere this year. Rose will not be back till Feb or Mar. They will probably go for a top 10 pick and Bargs would add some solid talent which they could use as a stretch 4 and secondary scorer. Plus Noah works well to back him up.
CHA - Gordon - We save a year and also bring back some much needed bench scoring. A legit scorer on the bench. Bobcats add more talent which might develop. Kidd-Gilchrist is a solid SF alogn with Biyombo to play with Bargs upfront.
DET - Villnaueva - Highly doubt BC would bring Charlie back for Bargs of all people but if Will Bynum is also thrown in we save some money and Charlie comes back to his rookie team. he provides some legit flexibility and a change of scenery might do him well. Again a PF but atleast he can defend.
WIZ - Okafor - Give me some toughness upfront. We save some money and Bargs goes to play with Nene. Okafor can start while Val learns.
DEN - Chandler - He is not getting any time. He should be able to start and get major minutes with us. Bargs gives them some solid bench scoring and a stretch 4.
if celtics cool with that i diffently do that,the knicks trade is interesting cause raps getting rid of fields contract,bulls too but how long is boozer contract?,the piston one maybe they throw in prince some how maybe calderon
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
isyed wrote:At this point i would look at anything out there that we can get. Something more useful or someone who is having a down year. Some players i might target:
SAC - Tyreke Evans - He has had a bad year there as well but i think a move would be nice for him. Same position as Derozan but we need to get as much talent as possible. We can figure the rest out later.
BOS - Jeff Green - Boston needs some production from their bigs when KG goes. They still have a small window. With Rondo defending the point and PP and KG providing the assists and leadership Bargs should be able to play well here.
OKC - Perkins - I know OKC might be trying to save some money but with Harden gone they need some talent. They hardly get any scoring from their bigs. Ibaka can go back to defending while Bargs stretches the D out. Perkins is on a shorter contract and can start while JV develops. He gives us toughness and grit.
NYC - Stoudamire- I know he is Injury prone and a bit selfish plus no defence but he does have talent. His contract is on for 2 more years. We could send back Fields and Bargs for Stoudamire which gives us good scoring from the PF position. Lowry, Derozan and Amare are a good place to start. Val can play at his spot at the 5. Amare also bring some toughness. As much as i dislike him and agree he is a bit cuckoo he does bring and edge and solid talent to our team. With no other dominent scorer like melo he might even thrive. Plus its 2 more years after this year so its not a major long term commitment. We also get rid of Field's contract. This is if New York believes that Melo and Amare cannot coexist and they need some decent talent/role players coming back.
CHI - Boozer - Chicago is not going anywhere this year. Rose will not be back till Feb or Mar. They will probably go for a top 10 pick and Bargs would add some solid talent which they could use as a stretch 4 and secondary scorer. Plus Noah works well to back him up.
CHA - Gordon - We save a year and also bring back some much needed bench scoring. A legit scorer on the bench. Bobcats add more talent which might develop. Kidd-Gilchrist is a solid SF alogn with Biyombo to play with Bargs upfront.
DET - Villnaueva - Highly doubt BC would bring Charlie back for Bargs of all people but if Will Bynum is also thrown in we save some money and Charlie comes back to his rookie team. he provides some legit flexibility and a change of scenery might do him well. Again a PF but atleast he can defend.
WIZ - Okafor - Give me some toughness upfront. We save some money and Bargs goes to play with Nene. Okafor can start while Val learns.
DEN - Chandler - He is not getting any time. He should be able to start and get major minutes with us. Bargs gives them some solid bench scoring and a stretch 4.
Of those, the best deal by far would be Perkins, in my opinion. We are running the risk of putting too much pressure on Jonas and force-feeding him into the league, where he's going to get man-handled and always be in foul trouble, and he could very well start picking up some bad habits. Perkins's toughness would be a good example for the team as a whole, while letting Jonas learn a bit and come off the bench, maybe play 20-22 mpg.
I don't think OKC does the deal, as they recognized that their weak point was center. If they think Ibaka can play some center they might (small probability) consider Andrea + Gray for Perkins and some bad contract.
Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
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Re: Chisholm: It's time to trade Andrea Bargnani
There is no way we trade with OKC without getting our pick back. It's pointless, perkins would only serve to arguably make us worse thus ensuring their/our pick to benefit them. Entirely one sided without that pick.
Props TZ!