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PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there.

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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#181 » by Legal Non-Conforming » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:16 pm

Tacoma wrote:Sometimes it's like reading 1960s editions of Pravda when the topic of Bargnani comes up and all you read is how great everything is and may god help you if you say what's really happening.

So, never mind that it took him 19 shots to get his 17 points; never mind that it took him 40 min to get his 5 rebounds. Just giving effort is good enough to call it a good game for Bargnani. Set the bar low enough and you'll be fine.

It's like a kid in remedial class. If he can put together a coherent sentence, then you say that-a-boy, that was excellent, young man. That's all I'm expecting out of him at this point. Baby steps.


Is that how you read this thread? That it is post after post about how great Bargnani is? It takes great "courage" to slam Bargnani on this forum, doesn't it? Does it make any difference that the Raptors won, or are you just in it for the hate? What "really happened" is that the Raptors won the game, but you don't seem interested in that....
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#182 » by Anatomize » Mon Nov 19, 2012 4:41 pm

sanity wrote:Bargnani's play is always deceiving. Deceivingly terrible, because shooting 30 some odd percent and not commanding double teams eliminates the idea that he spaces the floor or contributes anything positive on offense anyways


Even without double teams Bargnani DOES space the floor. Here's the issue however, his shooting ability creates better floor spacing versus traditional half court lineups (Spurs, Memphis, etc). We're seeing less of these lineups today. More particularly, look at our most recent matchups and you'll see that he's been covered for stretches by the likes of Gerald Wallace, Thaddeus Young, Paul Millsap (who can play SF), Paul George, and others. The days of Bargnani shooting jumpshots on a big man who doesn't want to go out there are over, as soon as Indiana noticed he's making a run on David West, they quickly switch a new defender on him and his hot streak is over.

Not only is Bargnani's conditioning an issue at the end of games, but he has to make it a point to post up when they switch smaller defenders on him. This is where Bargnani was a matchup nightmare last year, because he recognized that every time he had a small defender he could bully them in the post, and once they switched a big he could take them back outside and stretch the D. Bargs has shied away from that this year (I only saw him go strictly to a post up game in one game this year when they put a smaller defender on him). If he can't punish teams for putting out small lineups, then he's practically useless out there. Teams are taking away Bargs blow by ability on bigs and relegating him to become an inefficient long 2 jumpshooter (since quicker defenders are better at recovering to the 3 point line against him and forcing him off the 3).

Casey's adjustment when opposing teams present us with a smaller lineup should be to put Bargs at Center and run a small lineup while still allowing Bargs to maintain an advantage over the other team's Center.
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#183 » by Indeed » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:23 pm

Since you mention about Memphis, they are really a great team.
You have great players in Gasol and Randolph, where both of them can shoot the ball. Even their backup can shoot from foul line. Then you have Gay, who has the athleticism to finish in traffic. This is huge, because your 3 tallest players can finish in traffic with their length and size.

If Toronto wants to play like Memphis without stretch big like Bargnani, we need a much more skillful PF and SF, where they can finish in traffic and shoot the ball.
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#184 » by arbsn » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:34 pm

vals looking terrible :(

he was getting dominated by stupid vucevic
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#185 » by david5773 » Mon Nov 19, 2012 5:56 pm

arbsn wrote:vals looking terrible :(

he was getting dominated by stupid vucevic


val is not a good defender somebody scored 10+ pts on him, this is unacceptable they should have 0 points
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#186 » by Undefeated » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:03 pm

Vucevic is being underrated here
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#187 » by Dr Positivity » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:19 pm

Vucevic and Valanciunas are pretty close to being the same guy talent wise
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#188 » by JV4MVP » Mon Nov 19, 2012 6:45 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:Vucevic and Valanciunas are pretty close to being the same guy talent wise


I wouldn't say that. Vucevic just has 1.5 more years of physical maturity. That's significant for a center.
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#189 » by D-BE-LAW » Mon Nov 19, 2012 8:43 pm

This fanbase hypes valanciunas, a best a decent centre, into a beast. LOL.
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#190 » by thebigv » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:45 pm

val will be a beast. He needs time
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#191 » by Inevitable » Mon Nov 19, 2012 9:50 pm

It seems as if Val just seems pretty lost on offensive and defensive schemes. He second guesses his mid-range shot he can hit into awkward pump-fakes and dishes it off. Even with that, if given minutes per 36 he's at 14/8 which is not bad.
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#192 » by theonlyeastcoastrapsfan » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:04 pm

thebigv wrote:val will be a beast. He needs time


Needs to get stronger and used to the calls. I'm not sure what that numbers are, but from my eyes people are scoring on him at a pretty high rate. See enough though to say that it bodes well for him. He's very active always, and is a great rebounder. He'll be fine.
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#193 » by Jambo » Mon Nov 19, 2012 10:18 pm

I have no idea why people are knocking Val . He's a rookie C who has a total of 10 games in the league and is playing behind one of the weakest perimiter D's . I don't understand why people always look at our bigs and think they should be able to shut down the entire opposing team while our pg/sg/sf get very little citicism for there porus defense .

Good defensive teams are a combination of 5 guys playing well not just the 2 bigs going 2 on 5 against the other team .
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#194 » by Indeed » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:38 pm

Inevitable wrote:It seems as if Val just seems pretty lost on offensive and defensive schemes. He second guesses his mid-range shot he can hit into awkward pump-fakes and dishes it off. Even with that, if given minutes per 36 he's at 14/8 which is not bad.


Not on the defensive end. But when you cannot guard the ball handler, you need one of your big to cut the driving lane by leaving his man. Jonas is very good at positioning, but no way he can guard two players at the same time. We need to wait until Lowry, and let him focus on man defense.

I think Bargnani and Jonas should go against each other in practice. Both needs to improve their post game and post defense.
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#195 » by fredericklove » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:45 pm

I think the risk of picking up another foul is what holds him back on 1 on 1 defensive situations. At times when he picks up silly fouls, he'll become more passive on defense, not on weak side D but on the 1 on 1 post up situation. Either that, or he's not used to defending guys with skilled post up moves. So far he's putting his hands up, but not using his footwork or body (chest) to guard his man on the block, lack of muscles is also the issue too. I still think he's too afraid of picking another foul, if he over-commits, there will be instant rookie calls from refs. It takes times, Jonas is still learning at this stage.
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#196 » by JV4MVP » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:49 pm

D-BE-LAW wrote:This fanbase hypes valanciunas, a best a decent centre, into a beast. LOL.


He's 20 years-old and is 10 games into the season starting against the best centers in the world. For the 20 minutes that he averages, he has more than held his own, even at times outplaying max centers such as Hibbert.

He's still growing into his frame. Once he bulks up and adds a consistent jumper he will be a force.
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#197 » by Crazy-Canuck » Mon Nov 19, 2012 11:49 pm

theonlyeastcoastrapsfan wrote:
thebigv wrote:val will be a beast. He needs time


Needs to get stronger and used to the calls. I'm not sure what that numbers are, but from my eyes people are scoring on him at a pretty high rate. See enough though to say that it bodes well for him. He's very active always, and is a great rebounder. He'll be fine.


He needs ti get a whole lot stronger.

Defensively, he is rangey but us getting bullied physically and is giving up a whole lot of points recently.

Offensively, he is too weak to post. He will often start at the low blocks, but by the time he tries to pack in, Val end of near the FT line. Needs to go back to being a lunch pail guy, we shouldnt be running anything for him and just let him wreak on the oboards.
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#198 » by Undefeated » Tue Nov 20, 2012 12:23 am

Crazy-Canuck wrote:Offensively, he is too weak to post. He will often start at the low blocks, but by the time he tries to pack in, Val end of near the FT line. Needs to go back to being a lunch pail guy, we shouldnt be running anything for him and just let him wreak on the oboards.


I think he gets pushed away from the basket when he tries to back down his man has more to with his lack of balance because he doesn't get low enough when he has his man sealed. Most of the work for a post player is done before they even catch the ball. But he doesn't use his rump to bully his way down to the basket. If he's going to post up he has to be low like he's sitting on a chair. He stays high and that high center of gravity gives the defense an easy time to tip him over off balance.
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#199 » by keondrunk » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:01 am

I am sad Kyle Lowry is injured.
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Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there. 

Post#200 » by Crazy-Canuck » Tue Nov 20, 2012 1:06 am

Undefeated wrote:
Crazy-Canuck wrote:Offensively, he is too weak to post. He will often start at the low blocks, but by the time he tries to pack in, Val end of near the FT line. Needs to go back to being a lunch pail guy, we shouldnt be running anything for him and just let him wreak on the oboards.


I think he gets pushed away from the basket when he tries to back down his man has more to with his lack of balance because he doesn't get low enough when he has his man sealed. Most of the work for a post player is done before they even catch the ball. But he doesn't use his rump to bully his way down to the basket. If he's going to post up he has to be low like he's sitting on a chair. He stays high and that high center of gravity gives the defense an easy time to tip him over off balance.


Honestly, we need to bring in a big man coach for postplay or at the very least have Mags work with Val regularly on how to use that rump.

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