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PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out there.

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Post#151 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:58 pm by KG1585

Undefeated wrote:Anyone else seem to notice that DeMar is starting to become a threat from the corner 3?

I know the percentages don't really reflect that, but defenses are now running out on him to close that shot out. He's very confident in taking those shots.


Yea, I noticed on his three he was set and went straight up, did not kick out like he has tendency to do on shots.
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Post#152 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 8:59 pm by KG1585

Jose is averaging 13 points and 12 assists as a started as per tweet by Grange. Really good for a backup point guard.
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Post#153 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:00 pm by david5773

KG1585 wrote:Jose is averaging 13 points and 12 assists as a started as per tweet by Grange. Really good for a backup point guard.


He will become an all-star over Lowry.
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Post#154 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:04 pm by Metallikid

Don't, after the first it's embarrassing to watch until the late fourth and Bargs did basically nothing for 8 mins in the third.
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Post#155 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:27 pm by Bankai

I guess since expectations for Bargnani are so low that this game would be considered a "good game" for him.
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Post#156 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:35 pm by Raptorfan2012

Was at the game, and here were my observations:

- Got there late (traffic) so only started at the 2nd quarter.

- Jonas looks great in the paint, but man he missed his free throws (thought he was a good free-throw shooter for a big man). He has great motor and really fights in the paint. His play suffered in the 3rd, but it was because he was tired; Casey should have subbed him off earlier to get a break.

- Amir was a beast ready to fight. He had a few fluke shots (thank got they went in)

- Linas was pretty good. As long as he does not do too much and lose control, he is a good SF bench player

- Demar played okay; he must have been napping at halftime because he came out sluggish. I was screaming at him to wake up, because he was hardly paying attention on defense and on the ball. Demar also needs to go straight at the hoop; too often he starts a drive, but then pulls back.

- Jose played well. Yes, he dribbles a bit too much, but it is also because he is waiting on his team to make the proper cuts. Raptors need to do better at executing; sometimes it feels they are just going through the motions.

- Bargnani was okay. Too inconsistent on offense; sometimes his shot looks great, but other times he just shoots whenever... i don't know, I think it is better we trade him and get a new start.

- Sad that Glenn Big Baby Davis had his way with our Defense. He made some tough shots though, so not entirely the defense fault.

- I really wanted to see Ross, but he got no burn. Why pick him at 8 if you are not going to use him. BC better trade him with Bargnani now since we can still sell on his potential.

Finally, I swear posters here are like Asian parents; they want a flawless performance. Why are people whining when we won?! With a respectable score too! SMH
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Post#157 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:40 pm by david5773

didn't we hire competent guys in the truck as per wolstat a couple of weeks ago?
He tweeted something like ''they're the best in the business. No more awkward angles.''
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Post#158 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 9:49 pm by Undefeated

MEDIC wrote:The guy shot .368, took some questionable shots & had 5 rebounds in 40 minutes.


His FG% is a bit deceiving this game. By no means did he shot the ball well, but there were at least 3 gimme layups that he came up short when he drove to basket in the first quarter. Had he made those 3 layups his FG% would've been 50%. The defense and rebounding otoh...
Basketball is like poetry in motion, cross the guy to the left, take him back to the right, he's fallin' back, then just J right in his face. Then you look at him and say, "What?" - Jesus Shuttlesworth
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Post#159 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:22 pm by Indeed

Undefeated wrote:- Bargnani got off to a mild start to the game first with the interception by Glen Davis for the dunk. It was nice to see him start his offense inside-out swooping in for layups with those dribble-drives, but I still don’t like how he’s sizing up from the 3-point line when he should be catching the ball from the elbow and converting those fakes to attacks with a single dribble instead of two dribbles. It gives the defense too much time to react even if his first lunge to the basket is explosive, the defense can easily make that defensive slide way faster when they don’t have to cover as much ground. It basically forces Bargnani to contort his body because he has to maneuver around the help defender to get to the basket and those layups he tries to finish end up having a 50/50 chance of dropping into the basket. Layups should go in the basket 80% of the time. He also has to stop this poor habit of ducking his head whenever he’s separated between the rim and his defender. By doing that, he eliminates where his teammates are for the kick-out because he’s so focused on at the rim, and the layups ends up being short.

He missed a couple of easy layups that should’ve been converted into points, so his FG% is a bit deceiving. Nonetheless, I kind of expected him to have a dominant offensive performance against Glen Davis and Andrew Nicholson. They’re giving up 4-inches in height, and their speed can be count on a calendar, so it was kind of a disappointment he didn’t do more.

- Dominic McGuire needs to chill out a bit out there sometimes. He had numbers on a 2-on-1 fastbreak with Calderon running with him on the left sideline and he decides to pull-up for the foul-line jumper that hit nothing but glass. That was a WTF moment. Aside from that he had a solid game.

- Amir and Ed did a good job of making those rim-runs and ducking in for easy baskets. I was surprised that Calderon didn’t get picked off once when he made those entry passes because he’s usually never that quick and accurate on his passes when he has to make laser quick moves. Calderon’s even using the hit-ahead pass to push the pace like Andre Miller does.

- The offense was ugly to watch, but I can’t blame Coach Casey for running those high/middle screen-and-rolls and dribble hand-offs repeatedly to death because he’s got to keep things simple for a roster that can’t do much offensively. They don’t have any players that can read the defense off –the-ball and make timely cuts to the basket. No one on this team is a premier cutter that can pick apart the defense with their deception and motion to open up the floor for other players. I don’t know, but besides Lowry, Amir and Fields this team lacks guys with BBall IQ to make something happened when they have to improvise.


- I don't see much of a problem having Bargnani started in the 3 point line. If the defense shifts, then he should pass the ball to the open player, which I prefer ball movement over the Bosh isolation. As for some of his layup, some of them are fouls with no call (not surprised I guess if DeRozan is getting the same treatment). On defense, they played back to back, so he was slow at the end, but still dominate Orlando.

- It was good for McGuire to get some of the opportunities. I think he never has those situation leading in a 2-on-1 fastbreak. So I hope he learns from it. And yes, solid performance from him, particularly on the defensive end with blocks and steals.

- Amir and Davis were playing great with a stretch big. Amir was using his speed in the open area, where no help defense can come in time for his dunks. Same for Davis, got a few lobs to show his soft touch around the rim.

- Offense wasn't that bad, and we try to use the clock at the end (one situation was Calderon started PnR in less than 7 seconds, and passed to Bargnani who is guarded with 3 seconds, so he missed the shot as a result). And again Kleiza off the bench contributed great with his scoring; he should be in the rotation. Jonas also got some touches, but he is still learning, hope he understands he is not ready to create for himself (turnover when doubled).
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Post#160 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:32 pm by MEDIC

Undefeated wrote:
MEDIC wrote:The guy shot .368, took some questionable shots & had 5 rebounds in 40 minutes.


His FG% is a bit deceiving this game. By no means did he shot the ball well, but there were at least 3 gimme layups that he came up short when he drove to basket in the first quarter. Had he made those 3 layups his FG% would've been 50%. The defense and rebounding otoh...


Whose fault was it that he missed the "gimme layups"? I understand that you are saying that he was "trying" to do the right thing, but still.......

A guy misses 3 easy shots, shot .368 & had 5 rebounds & yet......he had a good game according to a lot of us. That's just how low the bar has been set. For players that are actually consistently good, if they miss "at least 3 easy shots" & shoot .368, generally it would be stated that they didn't have a very good game.

I'd cut Bargnani some slack if he'd been rolling prior to this game, but he's had a brutal start to the season.
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Post#161 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:34 pm by Tacoma

MEDIC wrote:
dagger wrote:Sometimes it's like reading 1960s editions of Pravda when the topic of Bargnani comes up and his detractors can't even muster a vague complement for a good game. Ya, I'm open to trading him for value, to align PF with the rest of our younger lineup, and providing the incoming talent is real value and contributes to our offence. But it's really mind- blowing how petty people are. Five boards is what they focus on, never mentioning two blocks, or two steals, solid positional D most of the game or a beautiful and very important assist in crunch time, nor a pair of key baskets that helped take a tie out to a 12-point lead in the fourth quarter.

Holly McKenzie, like a lot of media, have been very critical of him, and justifiably so, but this is what she wrote today.

This was a much better game for him. When he was in, we were generally the better team by a good margin. He hasn't had enough of these games, that's a legit criticism, but have the intellectual honesty to admit he had a good one today.


The problem is dagger, it was a "good game for him". The reason it was a good game for him was because he actually tried. Do you think he'll show this same effort for the rest of the season? Do you think he'll do what's needed to improve his scoring efficiency?

I've generally been a Bargnani supporter over the years, but at 27 years old & this being his 7th season......the guy should know what it means to be a professional professional by now. That means showing up for the season in shape & bringing his "A game" night in & night out.


Sometimes it's like reading 1960s editions of Pravda when the topic of Bargnani comes up and all you read is how great everything is and may god help you if you say what's really happening.

So, never mind that it took him 19 shots to get his 17 points; never mind that it took him 40 min to get his 5 rebounds. Just giving effort is good enough to call it a good game for Bargnani. Set the bar low enough and you'll be fine.

It's like a kid in remedial class. If he can put together a coherent sentence, then you say that-a-boy, that was excellent, young man. That's all I'm expecting out of him at this point. Baby steps.
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Post#162 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:41 pm by Indeed

timdunkit wrote:

I have no idea what game you guys where watching but Andrea was actually pretty good defensively. Even though his shot wasn't falling, he was more active offensively rather then standing at the 3pt line all day. He roll to the basket more often, he moved around in that mid range area, setting screens for the wing players and he was trying to get to the rim.

The only criticism I had was that he should have passed the ball more when he was driving since his teammates could have had better looks.


I agree that Bargnani should improve as a playmaker, but it probably takes some practice time, otherwise, you will see big increase in turnover.

As for defense, it was Calderon who either over helped, didn't cut off driving lane after switch, or got stuck in pick but not guarding anyone. Even McGuire got blamed on failing to rotate for him when his man (Affalo) sets the pick for Nelson.
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Post#163 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:44 pm by Indeed

MEDIC wrote:
Undefeated wrote:
MEDIC wrote:The guy shot .368, took some questionable shots & had 5 rebounds in 40 minutes.


His FG% is a bit deceiving this game. By no means did he shot the ball well, but there were at least 3 gimme layups that he came up short when he drove to basket in the first quarter. Had he made those 3 layups his FG% would've been 50%. The defense and rebounding otoh...


Whose fault was it that he missed the "gimme layups"? I understand that you are saying that he was "trying" to do the right thing, but still.......

A guy misses 3 easy shots, shot .368 & had 5 rebounds & yet......he had a good game according to a lot of us. That's just how low the bar has been set. For players that are actually consistently good, if they miss "at least 3 easy shots" & shoot .368, generally it would be stated that they didn't have a very good game.

I'd cut Bargnani some slack if he'd been rolling prior to this game, but he's had a brutal start to the season.


There was at least one that should be a foul (if not two). But we get back the offensive rebound, and I suppose it is by design (plays to allow Bargnani to shoot). Not something I agree with, because you should not rely on offensive rebound, and good shot selection is still needed. Also, he was playing back to back.
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Post#164 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 10:58 pm by Phenomenologist

Undefeated wrote:
MEDIC wrote:The guy shot .368, took some questionable shots & had 5 rebounds in 40 minutes.


His FG% is a bit deceiving this game. By no means did he shot the ball well, but there were at least 3 gimme layups that he came up short when he drove to basket in the first quarter. Had he made those 3 layups his FG% would've been 50%. The defense and rebounding otoh...


And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon. Alas...
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Post#165 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:09 pm by Hero

Undefeated wrote:
MEDIC wrote:The guy shot .368, took some questionable shots & had 5 rebounds in 40 minutes.


His FG% is a bit deceiving this game. By no means did he shot the ball well, but there were at least 3 gimme layups that he came up short when he drove to basket in the first quarter. Had he made those 3 layups his FG% would've been 50%. The defense and rebounding otoh...


7-19 and 5 rebounds is a good game for a starting power forward now :lol:
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TWO4Life wrote:His shots aren't falling but you can't say Patman isn't working hard.

a monkey can work hard, i want results
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Post#166 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:13 pm by JV4MVP

Amir and Linas aren't getting enough love. They saved the game when momentum seemed to be shifting in the 3rd.

DD and Jose were very solid as well obviously.
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Post#167 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:21 pm by Scase

Hero wrote:
Undefeated wrote:
MEDIC wrote:The guy shot .368, took some questionable shots & had 5 rebounds in 40 minutes.


His FG% is a bit deceiving this game. By no means did he shot the ball well, but there were at least 3 gimme layups that he came up short when he drove to basket in the first quarter. Had he made those 3 layups his FG% would've been 50%. The defense and rebounding otoh...


7-19 and 5 rebounds is a good game for a starting power forward now :lol:

Not just any PF.....our PF :lol: :lol:
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Post#168 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:34 pm by Indeed

Regression2u wrote:Amir and Linas aren't getting enough love. They saved the game when momentum seemed to be shifting in the 3rd.

DD and Jose were very solid as well obviously.


I believe they were getting more attention. Amir for sure, they were guarding tighter on the pick and roll, where Nelson did a good job not allowing the pick to be used.

Meanwhile, Kleiza wasn't involved in those plays, but his existence for spreading the floor helped a lot. Because of his shootings, the roller got more space in the paint.
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Post#169 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:42 pm by Pass it

nicholason and harkless for bargnani get er done
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Post#170 Re: PG: Remember, that's a seven footer out t
Sun Nov 18, 2012 11:53 pm by theycallmeZZ

Amir was a beast and saved the game. The guy is pure energy, makes up for the energy that Bargs saps away.
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