Official Tank for Andrew Wiggins Thread

[Undefeated]

It's safe to say you've got no idea what's going on now. You lost this one fam.

[Neutral 123]

It's safe to say you've got no idea what's going on now. You lost this one fam.

What's happened is that a lot of you have danced around your original statements and keep on dancing.

[Undefeated]

Lol you're just confused now. I suggest you stay away from this thread until you watch the game frederick posted a few pages back.

[beanbag]

I rather lose the pick this year to OKC and tank properly next year to get in the running for Wiggins. Raptors will have a lot of cap space in 2015. Key is to get a new GM, who will not sign crazy Landry Fields type contracts past 2015. So, after Colangelo is hopefully fired, i hope the new GM comes in and trades Lowry, Bargnani, lets Calderon walk, and cleans house, so this team is just like the Cleveland Cavs of 2002. The Cavs in 2002 set a plan to be so terrible just to land

Lebron in 2003. That is why they traded Lamond Murray to Toronto for Yogi Stewart, and Andre Miller to the Clippers that year. Toronto should even trade DD if the right deal comes along. Build around Davis and Jonas, and suck so bad next year that Wiggins will land in our lap hopefully. Build around these three guys, with a ton of cap space in 2015, and hopefully we can be relevant again. Seen Wiggins play several games, and this guy has a chance to be a real superstar with hard work and determination. Looks good as Lebron, when Lebron was in high school.
Who else agrees or i am crazy to think this way, like the Cavs of 2002?

It's a nice idea, but requires a lot of wishful thinking and even more luck. There's no guarrantee ownership will want to blow the current team up, nor is there any guarrantee a new GM (which in and of itself is no guarrantee) will want a full rebuild either. Even if MLSE does want that and so does the (theoretical) new GM, there is no guarrantee we finish bad enough anyway, nor is there any likely scenario (no more than a 1 in 4 chance) we land the top pick.

It would be nice for all those things to go right, but I wouldn't get my hopes up for it

[DG88]

Both Wiggins and Parker are generational talents. Getting either would be fantastic for this franchise. Wiggins may be the top prospect now but that could change relatively quickly in college. Lokking at mock drafts now is irrelevent. We won't see who is the consensus no. 1 until mid feburary to March.

That's exactly right, mock draft is as inconsistent as ever because it changes all the time. Like how Drummond was a clear cut 1st pick over Davis prior to college season start because of his elite athleticism and size. I'm not gonna say Wiggins is going to screw up in college like Drummond did and I sure hope not because Wiggin's my guy too, but like Drummond, scouts were drool about the athletic/physical tools, that's the main reason why they have guys like that ranked 1st in the mock draft. Hell, even Demar was ranked 1st at one point before college starts.

Saying it's too early to tell anything definitive was not the source of the debate. The source of the debate was people saying they'd rather have Parker, or that they are neck and neck right now. Neither statement is correct, and I've been clear from the outset that of course things can change.

I've written about why both guys are viewed the way they are right now. Questions about Parker's athleticism is why Parker is being viewed as a guy who could go from 2-6 or 2-5 or 2-4 or whatever one you are comfortable with.

What you need to understand is that what's written now about a prospect can change just like the wind. Also GM's will value one prospect more than the other. Come draft day which ever team gets the number 1 pick will have a decision to make. Some GM's might value Parker more than Wiggins, others Wiggins over Parker either way they know they'll be getting a great prospect that they personally believe will push their team to new heights. Fredericklove and Undefeated have their opinion that they like Parker and if available would take him. That shouldn't be considered a disrespect to Wiggins or his talent.

[Kabookalu]

I know this board loves to argue, but arguing over two players that aren't even in college yet has set a new bar.

[arbsn]

That's exactly right, mock draft is as inconsistent as ever because it changes all the time. Like how Drummond was a clear cut 1st pick over Davis prior to college season start because of his elite athleticism and size. I'm not gonna say Wiggins is going to screw up in college like Drummond did and I sure hope not because Wiggin's my guy too, but like Drummond, scouts were drool about the athletic/physical tools, that's the main reason why they have guys like that ranked 1st in the mock draft. Hell, even Demar was ranked 1st at one point before college starts.

Saying it's too early to tell anything definitive was not the source of the debate. The source of the debate was people saying they'd rather have Parker, or that they are neck and neck right now. Neither statement is correct, and I've been clear from the outset that of course things can change.

I've written about why both guys are viewed the way they are right now. Questions about Parker's athleticism is why Parker is being viewed as a guy who could go from 2-6 or 2-5 or 2-4 or whatever one you are comfortable with.

What you need to understand is that what's written now about a prospect can change just like the wind. Also GM's will value one prospect more than the other. Come draft day which ever team gets the number 1 pick will have a decision to make. Some GM's might value Parker more than Wiggins, others Wiggins over Parker either way they know they'll be getting a great prospect that they personally believe will push their team to new heights. Fredericklove and Undefeated have their opinion that they like Parker and if available would take him. That shouldn't be considered a disrespect to Wiggins or his talent.

Seems to me that Fredericklove and Undefeated are simply trolling.

At the end of the day its black and white that right now, Wiggins is the consensus #1 in HS. He is also Canadian and a Raptors fan. To say they would pick Jabari over him means they are trying to get a rise out of other people.

Some people love to say things just to create controversy.

[Undefeated]

I think I made it clear that I would be equally happy with either one of Wiggins or Jabari, but I lean towards Jabari right now because I put a premium on offense. The people that are trolling are the ones that are completely blind to accept Wiggins' weaknesses.

[Kabookalu]

I'm sure those that are in support of Parker would love to have the problem of drafting Wiggins.

[fredericklove]

Saying it's too early to tell anything definitive was not the source of the debate. The source of the debate was people saying they'd rather have Parker, or that they are neck and neck right now. Neither statement is correct, and I've been clear from the outset that of course things can change.

I've written about why both guys are viewed the way they are right now. Questions about Parker's athleticism is why Parker is being viewed as a guy who could go from 2-6 or 2-5 or 2-4 or whatever one you are comfortable with.

Stop dancing around for the 6th time, I said I prefer him, did I say we ALL need to have him over Wiggins? No. If all of you said Wiggins is the ideal pick over him, so be it, but what I don't get about you is that you ridculate me for saying preferring Parker over him is the stupidest idea because you CLAIM Wiggins is the superior talent but in actuality, he is not. What does Wiggin do better than Parker other than athleticism? You tell me, tell me in a game analysis perspective, don't give me BS on mock draft.

What have you written so far, you wrote so much about Wiggins on a surface level but not in a mirco level. How can you possibly argue on a player that you haven't even watched live and talk like you make actual sense, not knowing how he plays at all but have to put yourself in a position to argue player to player like this, are you kidding me? You don't explain in any details whatsoever about his game that back up anything you say. What I say about them being neck for neck, I gave you experts' comparison, not personal statement, also Chad Ford who's smarter than me and for sure he's smarter than you says one is over the other NOT RESULT of talent gap. That's basically withdrawing the idea that they are far in level gap. Why you say this is incorrect about neck for neck? Stop ignoring facts and evidences.

[fredericklove]

Also your point is that he's 2-6, make up your mind, it's either one of the two: 2 or 2-3-4-5-6. What kind of argument is that when you say ohh he's not gonna be 2, but I say he's gonna be "2" to 6, we know what you mean by that, you're worried if he becomes a 2 on draft day you'll be worried that "not lock to be the 2" statement is coming back at you. Oh again, you refuse to make sig bet. How hard is it? Make a bet on him not being a lock 2. It's not so hard to be the loser of the claim, like if I lose to mufasa on the Jonas/Leonard sig bet I'll sig whatever he makes me sig, cos I"m not afraid to make claims and accept the consequences. What's your excuse for not making the sig bet?

We've been over this bet thing. I only started taking issue when people started suggesting they'd rather have Parker and that they are pretty much equals in terms of prospects. He could very well go 2. If you want to bet he'll go 1, that's what caught my attention. I mean in your mind it should be 50/50 that he could go 1 right?

Who said in my mind he's 50/50 going 1, this is why you weren't paying attention, I never said 50/50, have you read my other response to the other poster saying he's going to be picked number 1 due to alot of thing, read that post will you?

Okay here's what I'm going to do, theoretically do this because I'm gonna make myself look realllll dumb, I say he's going to be number 1, I'm going to bet you that he is going no.1 and I want you to bet he's also going number one, the loser will have to get punishment, how about that?

I target you on the one where you specifically said he's not a lock to go 2, I'm betting you on me saying he will be a lock to go 2, and have you bet on him not going to be a lock at that spot, that is a bet that makes sense but you're NOT doing it. Not attacking you personally, just asking you why you running away from this bet.

[fredericklove]

Seems to me that Fredericklove and Undefeated are simply trolling.

At the end of the day its black and white that right now, Wiggins is the consensus #1 in HS. He is also Canadian and a Raptors fan. To say they would pick Jabari over him means they are trying to get a rise out of other people.

Some people love to say things just to create controversy.

Accusing us of trolling, that's pretty low. Even Neutral hasn't said anything about us trolling, I don't ask you to take side, but no need to make a false claim or accusation.

[fredericklove]

:roll:

I think I made it clear that I would be equally happy with either one of Wiggins or Jabari, but I lean towards Jabari right now because I put a premium on offense. The people that are trolling are the ones that are completely blind to accept Wiggins' weaknesses.

I have yet to see them dissect anything about a prospect on a micro level but trying so hard to use mock draft and comparison of skillset to Lebron to make a case for themselves. We both argue that we prefer Parker because ..."part of his skillset here is evidently better than the other", ...but then we hear other say..."Wiggin's athleticism is so good that he doesn't need anything else to make himself elite because if Lebron can do this, so can he."

[hey_papi85]

I'm temporarily abandoning my lurking ways to comment on Wiggins.

I don't really understand the "wait and see what he does in D1" argument. I think it is pretty clear that he will dominate. Despite being the youngest player at the Nike Hoops Summit, he led the World team to victory over the top US prospects (including Bazz and Noel). This summer he destroyed all the top talent at the Peach Jam, where nearly every team has a starting 5 with D1 offers. The 14/6 line someone threw out is laughable.

I think you need to start believing the hype. Givony has stated that Wiggins would go #1 in this years draft if eligible, right out of high school.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXI8b7SYrNs[/youtube]

NBA scouts saying he will start unless the team that drafts him has an All-Star wing playing for them? Dude's for real.

[Scase]

I'm sure those that are in support of Parker would love to have the problem of drafting Wiggins.

That's the hilarious thing about this whole thread. We would be happier than pigs in sht if we were graced with the option of getting EITHER of these players.

I solely lean towards Wiggins due to the home town connection and higher upside, and the Parker mormon thing worries me a bit.

[fredericklove]

I'm temporarily abandoning my lurking ways to comment on Wiggins.

I don't really understand the "wait and see what he does in D1" argument. I think it is pretty clear that he will dominate. Despite being the youngest player at the Nike Hoops Summit, he led the World team to victory over the top US prospects (including Bazz and Noel). This summer he destroyed all the top talent at the Peach Jam, where nearly every team has a starting 5 with D1 offers. The 14/6 line someone threw out is laughable.

I think you need to start believing the hype. Givony has stated that Wiggins would go #1 in this years draft if eligible, right out of high school.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXI8b7SYrNs[/youtube]

NBA scouts saying he will start unless the team that drafts him has an All-Star wing playing for them? Dude's for real.

"He led the World team to victory"?

Ahh buddy, in that game that I've watched 3 times, it wasn't just Wiggins, it was a combination of Wiggins, Saric and Zhelin late at the game playing a close tight score in final late stretch, all 3 of them including Bennit's great play (3 pointer) to help lead the team to victory so don't prematurely credit everything to just Wiggins leading the victory .

The 14/6 line is me who threw it out as random numbers as "scenario" that even if Parker avg a better line than Wiggins on college level, Wiggins will still be drafted 1st. So reread that post again so you can get my concept right.

[fredericklove]

I'm sure those that are in support of Parker would love to have the problem of drafting Wiggins.

That's the hilarious thing about this whole thread. We would be happier than pigs in sht if we were graced with the option of getting EITHER of these players.

I solely lean towards Wiggins due to the home town connection and higher upside, and the Parker mormon thing worries me a bit.

I too said the same thing about either player, very fully satisfied if we get one of them. idk about the mormon situation, some say Parker was supposed to do the mormon stuff next year but he chose to go to college, so it's probably not going to affect him as he still chooses to play basketball. That's what I hope tho lol, who knows.

[Scase]

I'm sure those that are in support of Parker would love to have the problem of drafting Wiggins.

That's the hilarious thing about this whole thread. We would be happier than pigs in sht if we were graced with the option of getting EITHER of these players.

I solely lean towards Wiggins due to the home town connection and higher upside, and the Parker mormon thing worries me a bit.

I too said the same thing about either player, very fully satisfied if we get one of them. idk about the mormon situation, some say Parker was supposed to do the mormon stuff next year but he chose to go to college, so it's probably not going to affect him as he still chooses to play basketball. That's what I hope tho lol, who knows.

Well apparently their "mission" can be postponed but needs to be done. As for how long, I have no idea. Would suck for a team if they go to the finals and lose then the next year he bails cause of his mission needing to be done haha

[DG88]

Seems to me that Fredericklove and Undefeated are simply trolling.

At the end of the day its black and white that right now, Wiggins is the consensus #1 in HS. He is also Canadian and a Raptors fan. To say they would pick Jabari over him means they are trying to get a rise out of other people.

Some people love to say things just to create controversy.

Take off the canadian bias and look at what they're saying, they're not trolling. They like both prospects but for them right now they'd perfer Parker. There's nothing wrong if that's their opinion. That could change or stay the same in a year from now. Both Wiggins and Parker are generational talent in their own right. Having an opportunity to draft either one would incredible.

[tecumseh18]

Both Wiggins and Parker are generational talent in their own right. Having an opportunity to draft either one would incredible.

Not sure if noted above, but the fact that there are two such talents available means that next year is an excellent one to tank in. In years where there's only one, it's such a low percentage proposition.

C'mon, MLSE. You're still getting decent attendance after years of failure. What's another season? But do it right this time. Bring in Paul Silas. Casey is a terrible tank coach.