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ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O.F?

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ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O.F? 

Post#1 » by Waylon Mercy » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:13 pm

1. Is Vince Carter a Hall of Famer?


J.A. Adande, ESPN.com: No. His career seems defined by what he hasn't done: such as, he has never led the league in a statistical category and never gone to the NBA Finals. The last part is even more remarkable because he joined two teams (the Magic and Mavericks) that went to the Finals the season before he got there, and a third (the Nets) that went two years before he arrived. He has had a habit of always arriving after the meal was eaten and the bill has been paid. And of course, he left the Raptors before they even served the main course.

Mark Haubner, The Painted Area: Yes. Based on precedent, Vince will make it someday. Carter is 31st all-time in NBA scoring with over 21,000 points; every eligible player above him is in Springfield. But I wish the Hall of Fame had a higher standard. Carter made only two All-NBA teams (a second and a third). To me, he's a borderline candidate.

Steve McPherson, A Wolf Among Wolves: Yes. Carter is at the threshold of the kind of numbers associated with Hall of Famers. But for me, a Hall of Famer should be about more than just numbers. It should be about the fabric of the game, and with his Slam Dunk Contest win in 2000, his dunk on Frederic Weis in the Olympics that same year and countless other throwdowns, he was more than a dunker -- he became the dunk for countless fans.

Danny Nowell, Portland Roundball Society: No. If I were seeking true consistency with the rest of my list, Vince would be in, but there just aren't enough distinguishing achievements in his career. It pains me, as I have a soft spot for Vince as a Tar Heel, but I simply can't quite envision him enshrined.

Ethan Sherwood Strauss, HoopSpeak: Yes. He's the greatest dunker ever, and he happened to have a long, successful career doing a lot more than that. What went down in Toronto does not bother me. The guy didn't want to be stuck plying his trade in another country. I get it.



4. Is Tracy McGrady a Hall of Famer?


Adande: No. He never played a full 82-game season, and it feels as if he never got to play his full career. A bad back essentially wrecked him by age 30. His failure to advance past the first round of the playoffs wrecks his Hall of Fame bid in my time. Even worse, the Rockets did advance, then took the Lakers to seven games in the second round, all in his injured absence. That might qualify him for the Patrick Ewing Theory Hall of Fame, but not the one in Springfield.

Haubner: Yes. T-Mac deserves it. Due to his excruciating decline, you likely forget how good T-Mac was: seven All-NBA teams and one of only seven players ever with a 30-plus PER season (2002-03). Lack of a playoff series win hurts, though McGrady was usually spectacular in the postseason. Clearly a better NBA résumé than Chris Mullin, who got in last year.

McPherson: No. Beloved by deep basketball heads for the nearly supernatural abilities he displayed for a brief window at the beginning of the 2000s, McGrady has had a career too potholed by difficulties to be a lock for the Hall. It's roughly equivalent to putting the band Television into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame just on the strength of the "Marquee Moon" album. I mean, "Marquee Moon" is so good but ... hmm. Can I change my vote?

Nowell: Yes. Tracy McGrady still might be the prettiest scorer I've ever seen, and during his prime was a marquee player during one of the best eras in the league. I could see this going the other way, but T-Mac gets my vote.

Strauss: No. He should have been, but he's not. There was a time when preferring T-Mac to Kobe was perfectly reasonable, if not rational. Some back spasms and knee injuries later, and McGrady's résumé lacks HOF credentials.



http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-o ... -hall-fame
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#2 » by Green Backpack » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:16 pm

Only one I see as a HOFer is Iverson
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#3 » by Master Ze » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:19 pm

Iverson should def. be a HOF. If it wasn't for him and his swag, players wouldn't have to come to games dressed in a suit.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#4 » by carlosey » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:26 pm

VC, AI and possibly G Hill. Tmac and Sheed hell no.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#5 » by ballislife » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:29 pm

VC for being the greatest dunker ever.

Iverson for being one of the best scorers ever.

TMac, Hill, and Sheed... I'm not so sure.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#6 » by Gibby » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:30 pm

The guy that said no to A.I being in the HOF...the hell
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#7 » by Beardman » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:32 pm

Iverson was one of the best players to play the game. He was just really really stubborn as well. He HAS to be a HOFer imo.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#8 » by UN-Owen » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:39 pm

It's the BASKETBALL Hall of Fame, not the NBA Hall of Fame

Grant Hill is one of the greatest college players ever and on top of that his pre-ankle injury stats with Detroit are Hall of Fame worthy

Other than Rasheed, the rest were all better shooting guards than Hall of Famer Joe Dumars

Is Mitch Richmond getting in?
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#9 » by ash_k » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:41 pm

Only A.I. sorry Grant (injuries)
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#10 » by Mattd97 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:44 pm

when looking at their actual achievements its hilarious that more of them think VC makes it than tmac
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#11 » by Waylon Mercy » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:47 pm

VC should have the numbers but not the accolades but being the greatest dunker ever and helping
grow the game globally and in Canada should be the x-factor to put him in. He was also a big factor
why the NBA was still big after Jordan retired. Maybe he will sign with Miami or OKC when his contract
is done to win a free ring.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#12 » by West Rouge » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:47 pm

Green Backpack wrote:Only one I see as a HOFer is Iverson



Absolutely.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#13 » by notic101 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:52 pm

AI is the only first ballot entry, and I'm not bitter about either VC or TMac.

Yeah, Grant Hill was an All-star calibre for 5 years and played great in Duke with that football pass, but no. If you're going to turn down TMac for his injuries, then Grant is definitely shunned. Good guy though, just no.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#14 » by carlosey » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:55 pm

Carter was the face of basketball for a good while there and no doubt helped the game grow. He is in.

AI was one of the best performers out there despite his personal problems.

Grant Hill was one of the greatest college ballers of all time.

Tmac and Sheed have no business being in this list.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#15 » by UN-Owen » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:56 pm

Grant Hill's PER over his first 6 seasons

19
21
25.5
21
24
24.5

Average = 22.5

Pippen's career high is 23.2
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#16 » by lobosloboslobos » Thu Dec 13, 2012 9:59 pm

Mattd97 wrote:when looking at their actual achievements its hilarious that more of them think VC makes it than tmac


This and it's not even close.

TMac

7× NBA All-Star (2001–2007)
NBA Most Improved Player (2001)
2× NBA scoring champion (2003–2004)
2× All-NBA First Team (2002–2003)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2001, 2004, 2007)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2005, 2008)

USA Today High School Player of the Year (1997)

VC
NBA Rookie of the Year (1999)
8× NBA All-Star (2000–2007)
All-NBA Second Team (2001)
All-NBA Third Team (2000)

NBA All-Rookie First Team (1999)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (2000)
Consensus NCAA All-American Second Team (1998)
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#17 » by UN-Owen » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:01 pm

carlosey wrote:Carter was the face of basketball for a good while there and no doubt helped the game grow. He is in.

AI was one of the best performers out there despite his personal problems.

Grant Hill was one of the greatest college ballers of all time.

Tmac and Sheed have no business being in this list.


I'm pretty sure McGrady lead the NBA in all-star voting on more than one occasion

Let's not turn this into a popularity contest
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#18 » by Homer Jay » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:08 pm

Ranked based on what I think are their chances of getting in.

Iverson:100%, going in no question.

Vince: 80%, arguably the most popular player in the league for a couple of years. Best dunker ever. Scoring #s justify him going in. Could have easily led the league in scoring if he was more selfish.

Hill: 60%, one of the league's best all around players pre injury. Almost a better scoring version of Pippen although not as strong defensively. But that pre-injury period was all of 6 years. Personally I say no.

T-Mac: 40%, was arguably the BEST guard in the league for two years (yep even rivaled Kobe). Just a fantastic player for 40 minutes that is. Legendary fading down the stretch, lack of playoff success, and a career cut short by injuries (effectively done before age 30) means no HOF.

Sheed: 30%. When it boils down, he wasn't as good as people think. Poor rebounding numbers (6.7 career) and his FG% (.467 career) is frankly weak for a PF/C. None of his other stats jump out at you either. Was a warrior but only won one title in his career.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#19 » by 5DOM » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:11 pm

McGrady had the highest peak of the lot and that's no easy task. I think he will make it although the complete lack of playoffs success could hurt him a little.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#20 » by EH15 » Thu Dec 13, 2012 10:13 pm

lobosloboslobos wrote:
Mattd97 wrote:when looking at their actual achievements its hilarious that more of them think VC makes it than tmac


This and it's not even close.

TMac

7× NBA All-Star (2001–2007)
NBA Most Improved Player (2001)
2× NBA scoring champion (2003–2004)
2× All-NBA First Team (2002–2003)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2001, 2004, 2007)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2005, 2008)

USA Today High School Player of the Year (1997)

VC
NBA Rookie of the Year (1999)
8× NBA All-Star (2000–2007)
All-NBA Second Team (2001)
All-NBA Third Team (2000)

NBA All-Rookie First Team (1999)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (2000)
Consensus NCAA All-American Second Team (1998)

They don't go solely by that.

VC had a gold medal, 2x final four, 20 000 points, and imo his biggest contribution, his impact he did to dunking. Yes, dunking is just two points and just another part of the game, but you can't deny Vince took it to another level. Yao Ming is gonna get in on cultural impact alone. I don't think VC makes it first ballot, but he'll get in. He has a chance to end with 23000 points, 5000 rebounds, 4000 assists.

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