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ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O.F?

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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#61 » by orbesnet » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:04 pm

love to see one of T-Mac of VC get in and not the other... let the rivalry continue! (green font)

Iverson is a show-in.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#62 » by team edward » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:29 pm

If Vince had spent his entire career in Toronto he would make the HOF.

Loyal face of the franchise for an entire country, rather than what he is perceived to be.

Babcock f'ed it all up for everyone.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#63 » by Mattsanity » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:01 pm

AI is the only one with a lock on the HOF. He won season MVP.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#64 » by LLJ » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:06 pm

Boogie! wrote:"Ethan Sherwood Strauss, HoopSpeak: Yes. He's the greatest dunker ever, and he happened to have a long, successful career doing a lot more than that. What went down in Toronto does not bother me. The guy didn't want to be stuck plying his trade in another country. I get it."

this part annoyed me a little bit. it's like he's saying "of course he should be in the hall of fame. he shouldn't be punished because he had to play his prime years in canada."



If you read the comments for the article, the fans killed Strauss for being the most idiotic guy on this survey. VC left because we sucked, not because we were "in another country".
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#65 » by lobosloboslobos » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:49 pm

SO VC getting a gold medal in the olympics on an ultra-stacked team that could not possibly lose is a huge deal worth entry into HOF?
VC making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs is a huge deal worth entry into HOF?
VC 'reinventing himself' as a decent all-around player once he had flamed out as a superstar is a huge deal worth entry into HOF?

smh

I'll give you that he could deserve consideration because he was arguably the most spectacular dunker ever, but (tragically) nothing else he did comes close to being deserving of that honor. T-Mac was twice the top scorer in the league. VC was once the 10th scorer in the league. Tmac was 1st or 2nd all-NBA 5 times, VC was 2nd all-NBA once. Don't those strike you as rather extreme differences?

EDIT: I know I seem like a hater who doesn't appreciate what VC did for the Raps, but it ain't so. I watched most games he played in a Raps uniform and cheered myself hoarse for him over and over. But you don't make the hall of fame (or shouldn't) for being briefly youthfully great followed by the extended adult reality of being variously very good, good, decent and lame.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#66 » by TorontoRaptures » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:19 pm

Carter may have only led one team to the 2nd round by himself, but he also was a key part of a couple Nets teams that went to the second round and a member of the Magic who went to the finals. He also made the final four twice in college and had some big moments in the Olympic gold medal effort. Not spectacular accomplishments for someone as good as he was, but it's more than consecutive first round exits in the eyes of voters, like it or not. Being the best dunker of all time is a huge boost too.

That being said, the main reason many have Carter ahead of McGrady is that Carter's popularity in his peak was pretty unmatched. For the hall of fame, the fame part is pretty key. He was the leading vote getter in the all star game for 3 straight years, and the Raptors were the leaders in road attendance for those years too. Everyone wanted to watch Vince.

McGrady certainly had the better peak. He definitely was the better scorer, and he probably was the better player. Still, McGrady played with some talented teammates and never got past the first round. It's unfortunate for Mcgrady becasue he put up 30+ points per game in 4 straight playoff series while averaging around 5 boards a game, but still couldn't get over the hump.

I think AI is a lock, and I think Carter's legacy as a dunker and McGrady's consecutive scoring titles make them worthy too but I won't lose sleep if they don't get in. Grant Hill would have been better than any of them. It's a shame what injuries do. Like Carter/T-Mac, I would be fine either way for Hill. Wallace isn't a HOF level player in my eyes.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#67 » by EH15 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:29 pm

lobosloboslobos wrote:SO VC getting a gold medal in the olympics on an ultra-stacked team that could not possibly lose is a huge deal worth entry into HOF?
VC making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs is a huge deal worth entry into HOF?
VC 'reinventing himself' as a decent all-around player once he had flamed out as a superstar is a huge deal worth entry into HOF?

smh

I'll give you that he could deserve consideration because he was arguably the most spectacular dunker ever, but (tragically) nothing else he did comes close to being deserving of that honor. T-Mac was twice the top scorer in the league. VC was once the 10th scorer in the league. Tmac was 1st or 2nd all-NBA 5 times, VC was 2nd all-NBA once. Don't those strike you as rather extreme differences?

EDIT: I know I seem like a hater who doesn't appreciate what VC did for the Raps, but it ain't so. I watched most games he played in a Raps uniform and cheered myself hoarse for him over and over. But you don't make the hall of fame (or shouldn't) for being briefly youthfully great followed by the extended adult reality of being variously very good, good, decent and lame.

Do you think T-Mac should get in over Vince than? VC has won more in his career. In college and NBA. They take that into consideration. Honestly, if there's one stat I think voters take least into consideration is All NBA teams. It's such a subjective award. Reggie made third team three times and he's in.

The simple numbers you need to look at when it's all said and done. 23000 points, 5000 rebounds, 4000 assists.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#68 » by lobosloboslobos » Fri Dec 14, 2012 9:38 pm

Yeah I agree VC probably will get in, I just don't think he should. Mostly he'll make it for the dunking and the career points but also as Toronto Raptures points out because when it comes to 'fame' he definitely is deserving. He blew everybody's minds in those first couple years and those ripples have never fully disappeared.

But I would personally never vote for Vince as being one of the greatest players in the game. Let's just say that if you took a random selection of seasons of the guys who have made the hall in the past 10-20 years, and a random vince season, there is a very strong chance that the random season of the guy currently in the hall would massacre vince's random season. And there's a near-certainty that he'd beat VC one on one.

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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#69 » by JV4MVP » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:05 pm

Iverson was better than Kobe when both were in their prime. He scored, dished out assists and led the league in steals.

The other guys aren't HOF although Carter and Hill are on the fringe. Both will come short because of their injuries. I bet if Carter stayed in Toronto and put up the same #s then ppl here would support his HOF candidacy.

Regarding Hill, the guy nearly rivaled Jordan in the 1990s as a Piston. I actually recall that he had more all-star votes than Jordan during one of those seasons. I know a lot of younger posters are here but just google Hill on the Pistons (alongside Allen Houston). They were amazing.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#70 » by UN-Owen » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:16 pm

Jordan and LeBron have a career high PER of 31.7

McGrady's career high PER is 30.3


If the basketball Hall of Fame is about recognizing the elite players throughout history then McGrady should be in on the first ballot
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#71 » by Beardman » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:22 pm

UN-Owen wrote:Jordan and LeBron have a career high PER of 31.7

McGrady's career high PER is 30.3


If the basketball Hall of Fame is about recognizing the elite players throughout history then McGrady should be in on the first ballot

PER is garbage. That metric needs to die already.

It often times benefits high-shot volume players like McGrady (In ORL) and high-usage players like LeBron (in Mike Brown's system). Also at the same time it doesn't translate well for players like Kobe, who is like ORL MCgrady, it's too inconsistent.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#72 » by Oakville_Raptor » Fri Dec 14, 2012 11:33 pm

How does Ethan Strauss have a job?

Ethan Sherwood Strauss, HoopSpeak: Yes. He's the greatest dunker ever, and he happened to have a long, successful career doing a lot more than that. What went down in Toronto does not bother me. The guy didn't want to be stuck plying his trade in another country. I get it.




Strauss: No, not in my eyes. I'm sure Iverson will get in and he was an incredible talent. I'm just not in favor of supporting this kind of candidacy. People cite Iverson's Finals run as proof of his value, but he was far worse in so many seasons. I'd rather a HOF player be an obvious help to his team, nearly every year.
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#73 » by g selle » Sat Dec 15, 2012 4:55 am

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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#74 » by Scase » Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:17 am

Regression2u wrote:Iverson was better than Kobe when both were in their prime. He scored, dished out assists and led the league in steals.

The other guys aren't HOF although Carter and Hill are on the fringe. Both will come short because of their injuries. I bet if Carter stayed in Toronto and put up the same #s then ppl here would support his HOF candidacy.

Regarding Hill, the guy nearly rivaled Jordan in the 1990s as a Piston. I actually recall that he had more all-star votes than Jordan during one of those seasons. I know a lot of younger posters are here but just google Hill on the Pistons (alongside Allen Houston). They were amazing.

Only thing I remember about the pistons back then were those hoooooorrible aqua/seafoam green jerseys lol
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Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#75 » by TheToothFairy » Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:56 pm

All of them get in, Sheed may have the hardest time

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