ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O.F?

BallinOnUHomie · Post #31 » by **BallinOnUHomie** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:48 am

A.I for sure and Vince is a toss up. Vince was a good player, not HOF caliber but hes easily one of the best dunkers in history . Being a good dunker is not enough to get a person into the HOF but Vince's in game dunks were revolutionary and that made him a great entertainer and easily the most exciting player of this era (post 2000). If he goes in, that should be the reason why. He was great for the NBA. If he doesnt, its because as a player he was good but never Great.

and Sheed? Wtf? LOL

galeon110 · Post #32 » by **galeon110** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:49 am

lol Carter gets 3 Yes's but Grant Hill gets 4?? There goes all the credibility of this article, specifically Adande and Nowell

BallinOnUHomie · Post #33 » by **BallinOnUHomie** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:52 am

Conclusively to add to my last post, I would put V.C in the HOF because he definetly left a positive mark on the NBA. Whether a real fan or fairweather fan, I doubt anyone who watched Vince play in his prime would forget him, he was way too exciting of a player.

Waylon Mercy · Post #34 » by **Waylon Mercy** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:26 am

This potential Team Canada super team thats coming up the pipe line with Wiggins,
Kapongo, Thompson, Nicholson, Jospeh etc most of these guys if not all of them say Vince Carter
was the main reason they got into basketball and became Raptor fans.

We've seen Spain become a world power and fall in love with the game because of the Dream Team
playing in the 1992 Olympics in Barcelona it would be unprecedented to see a country become
a super power mostly on the influence of one player.

Thats what I think separates VC from a Mitch Richmond, T-Mac and a Chris Mullin (who's already in)...
I also think Iversons impact on the game culturally is a big x-factor for him. You could even argue
T-Macs huge impact on the Chinese market in his favor hell he might be even bigger then Yao lol

UN-Owen · Post #35 » by **UN-Owen** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:28 am

Homer Jay wrote:
sanity wrote:
Vinsane15 wrote:VC took our sorry a**franchise to basically one shot away from the ECF, and carried a bunch of scrubs. He should get in the HOF just because of that. And lol at Mitch Richmond, please he had no ever lasting impact like VC had(dunking, clutch shots, crazy shots, controversies ect). Plus Mitch only won a title being a 12th man on the Lakers.

VC, AI(most likely), and T-mac will get in. Grant Hill will too because of his college resume. I want 'Sheed to get in, but he comes up short.

So you're saying if Mitch Richmond won a few dunk contests you would consider him the equal of Carter? Yeah, and I LOL at the idea that bringing a team to the conference semis as a way of touting a player's playoffs success.

The knock against Richmond is probably the lack of team success. The Kings made the playoffs only once in his 8 seasons there. Averaging 22 ppg on poor teams is not much of an accomplishment.

I've never understood the argument that a lack of team success should affect how we should judge the talent/career of an individual player

21 PPG on .455% shooting is higher Kobe's (.454%) and Ray Allen's (.453%) career average

He also shot .388% from 3 and .85% from the line

The lack of surrounding talent means defenses would have focused almost exclusively on Richmond which makes his moderate efficiency all the more impressive

Iverson's career FG% is .425%

UN-Owen · Post #36 » by **UN-Owen** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:09 am

I only have one issue with Carter being elected

The laziest defensive player I've ever seen shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame

dTox · Post #37 » by **dTox** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:02 am

Answer/VC should definitely be in this, they made considerably more impact on the game then some of the other lame guys that managed to get in.

dTox · Post #38 » by **dTox** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:04 am

I love Grant Hill and if he was healthy he probably would've been amongst the best of them (same goes for Carter) but he should not be in the NBA hall of fame.

taimaishu · Post #39 » by **taimaishu** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:12 am

UN-Owen wrote:I only have one issue with Carter being elected

The laziest defensive player I've ever seen shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame

Err ask NJ, Orlando and Dallas how VC defended....He's become one of the more solid statistical defenders in the League (leads Dallas in charges, opponents shooting 36.3% against him etc.)

chuckerz · Post #40 » by **chuckerz** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:23 am

Grant Hill won 2 NCAA championships. The only other player to win a championship is Rasheed Wallace. the basketball hall of fame is not just the NBA hall of fame, but takes into account college basketball as well. As of now, he's one of the greatest basketball players Duke has ever produced. and being the winner of the nba sportsmanship award 3 times and being in an all nba team 6 times will definitely put him into the HOF

Allen iverson deserves to be there based on statistics alone and personal accolades. He willed his team to the NBA finals but lost to the Lakers. Iverson averaged 31.1 ppg that year and the second highest scoring player on that 76ers team was theo Ratlif at 12.4ppg

T-Mac chose personal glory over team success. Maybe being the 2 time scoring champ may propel him into the hall of fame but otherwise, there's really nothing else that should propel him into the HOF

Carter was one of the greatest dunkers ever. He made the slam dunk contest relevant after several years of stagnant dunk contests, he excited the crowds in an arena with his dunks and he helped put Toronto on the map in terms of basketball. His 20 000 plus points alone can put him into HOF talks.

Wallace was only a piece on a well rounded championship team. Besides getting lots of technicals, he wouldn't be remembered for anything else. No HOF

simple_jack · Post #41 » by **simple_jack** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:29 am

T.Mac, A.I., and VC have ruined their legacies so much while Kobe is still in the League playing with the best of them.

Thats how you know who really works hard in the off season.

I would still put VC in the HOF just because you can't ignore that type of talent.

T.Mac and A.I playing in China kind of tarnishes their reputation.

dTox · Post #42 » by **dTox** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:35 am

UN-Owen wrote:I only have one issue with Carter being elected

The laziest defensive player I've ever seen shouldn't be in the Hall of Fame

lol wut? Vince was a pretty damn good defender during his good days, he's a lazy oaf when he knows his teams aren't going anywhere (which is not a defense case for him in anyway) but to call him one of the laziest defenders is not warranted.

taimaishu · Post #43 » by **taimaishu** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:42 am

simple_jack wrote:T.Mac, A.I., and VC have ruined their legacies so much while Kobe is still in the League playing with the best of them.

Thats how you know who really works hard in the off season.

I would still put VC in the HOF just because you can't ignore that type of talent.

T.Mac and A.I playing in China kind of tarnishes their reputation.

Not to be a cheerleader but VC is older than both Kobe and T-Mac and is still putting up 12.5 points per game in 23 minutes with an above average PER. He is one of the top 5 6th men in the NBA and a darkhorse candidate for 6th man of the year. I don't think he's 'ruined' his legacy at all.....

joseph mamah · Post #44 » by **joseph mamah** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:44 am

Iversons a no brainer imo. I dont think the rest of those guys belong in the NBA Hall of Fame, but unless im mistaken its the Basketball Hall of Fame, in which case Hill and Carter should probably be in. Hill based mostly on his college career and VC because of the whole Vincanity craze, and a long relatively successful NBA career.

TMac was a great player, but I dont think he belongs in the HOF, he has no college to fall back on and he had a short NBA peak without much playoff success.

I love Sheed, and if the guy would have had Kobes mentality hed probably be in the discussion for GOAT PF, but he didnt do enough during his NBA or college careers to really have a case.

Scase · Post #45 » by **Scase** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:05 am

lobosloboslobos wrote:
Mattd97 wrote:when looking at their actual achievements its hilarious that more of them think VC makes it than tmac

This and it's not even close.

TMac

7× NBA All-Star (2001–2007)
NBA Most Improved Player (2001)
2× NBA scoring champion (2003–2004)
2× All-NBA First Team (2002–2003)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2001, 2004, 2007)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2005, 2008)
USA Today High School Player of the Year (1997)

VC
NBA Rookie of the Year (1999)
8× NBA All-Star (2000–2007)
All-NBA Second Team (2001)
All-NBA Third Team (2000)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1999)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (2000)
Consensus NCAA All-American Second Team (1998)

People seem to be forgetting that this is the BASKETBALL Hall of Fame not the NBA.

Leaving out Carters Olympic accolades is stupid.

dTox · Post #46 » by **dTox** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:08 am

Scase wrote:
lobosloboslobos wrote:
Mattd97 wrote:when looking at their actual achievements its hilarious that more of them think VC makes it than tmac

This and it's not even close.

TMac

7× NBA All-Star (2001–2007)
NBA Most Improved Player (2001)
2× NBA scoring champion (2003–2004)
2× All-NBA First Team (2002–2003)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2001, 2004, 2007)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2005, 2008)
USA Today High School Player of the Year (1997)

VC
NBA Rookie of the Year (1999)
8× NBA All-Star (2000–2007)
All-NBA Second Team (2001)
All-NBA Third Team (2000)
NBA All-Rookie First Team (1999)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (2000)
Consensus NCAA All-American Second Team (1998)

People seem to be forgetting that this is the BASKETBALL Hall of Fame not the NBA.

Leaving out Carters Olympic accolades is stupid.

Also, Carter has single handily taken his team at least to the 2nd round, what the hell has Tmac ever done in the playoffs?

D.Brasco · Post #47 » by **D.Brasco** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:08 am

Hill will get in due to his college years and only AI out of the rest should get in. Come on people wanting VC in "cuz he was teh best dunker"?

Boogie! · Post #48 » by **Boogie!** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:28 am

"Ethan Sherwood Strauss, HoopSpeak: Yes. He's the greatest dunker ever, and he happened to have a long, successful career doing a lot more than that. What went down in Toronto does not bother me. The guy didn't want to be stuck plying his trade in another country. I get it."

this part annoyed me a little bit. it's like he's saying "of course he should be in the hall of fame. he shouldn't be punished because he had to play his prime years in canada."

Scase · Post #49 » by **Scase** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:30 am

Boogie! wrote:"Ethan Sherwood Strauss, HoopSpeak: Yes. He's the greatest dunker ever, and he happened to have a long, successful career doing a lot more than that. What went down in Toronto does not bother me. The guy didn't want to be stuck plying his trade in another country. I get it."

this part annoyed me a little bit. it's like he's saying "of course he should be in the hall of fame. he shouldn't be punished because he had to play his prime years in canada."

I read it more that he was saying Carter shouldn't have it held against him he was "stuck" in canada. Either way dick comment.

UN-Owen · Post #50 » by **UN-Owen** » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:32 am

Joe Dumars is in the Hall with a career PER of 15.3 and a career high of 18

Richmond's career PER is 17.6 with peak seasons of 21.6, 20.4 and 19.2

I hate the idea that what separates a Hall of Famer and a non Hall of Famer is whether or not they were lucky enough to play with some other future Hall of Famers

Everyone mentioned in this thread had a significantly better prime than Dumars