ImageImageImageImageImage

ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O.F?

Moderators: tsherkin, Yuri Vaultin, Rhettmatic, FluLikeSymptoms, itbobby007, Morris_Shatford, Alfred, DG88, Undefeated

User avatar
dTox
General Manager
Posts: 9,450
And1: 4,243
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Location: 416
 

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#46 » by dTox » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:08 am

Scase wrote:
lobosloboslobos wrote:
Mattd97 wrote:when looking at their actual achievements its hilarious that more of them think VC makes it than tmac


This and it's not even close.

TMac

7× NBA All-Star (2001–2007)
NBA Most Improved Player (2001)
2× NBA scoring champion (2003–2004)
2× All-NBA First Team (2002–2003)
3× All-NBA Second Team (2001, 2004, 2007)
2× All-NBA Third Team (2005, 2008)

USA Today High School Player of the Year (1997)

VC
NBA Rookie of the Year (1999)
8× NBA All-Star (2000–2007)
All-NBA Second Team (2001)
All-NBA Third Team (2000)

NBA All-Rookie First Team (1999)
NBA Slam Dunk Contest champion (2000)
Consensus NCAA All-American Second Team (1998)

People seem to be forgetting that this is the BASKETBALL Hall of Fame not the NBA.

Leaving out Carters Olympic accolades is stupid.


Also, Carter has single handily taken his team at least to the 2nd round, what the hell has Tmac ever done in the playoffs?
Image
TBZ for the win
D.Brasco
Lead Assistant
Posts: 4,582
And1: 1,009
Joined: Nov 17, 2006

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#47 » by D.Brasco » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:08 am

Hill will get in due to his college years and only AI out of the rest should get in. Come on people wanting VC in "cuz he was teh best dunker"?
User avatar
Boogie!
RealGM
Posts: 25,344
And1: 7,540
Joined: Oct 27, 2005
Location: Ba da da da daaaaaa. If you build it, they will come!
Contact:
   

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#48 » by Boogie! » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:28 am

"Ethan Sherwood Strauss, HoopSpeak: Yes. He's the greatest dunker ever, and he happened to have a long, successful career doing a lot more than that. What went down in Toronto does not bother me. The guy didn't want to be stuck plying his trade in another country. I get it."

this part annoyed me a little bit. it's like he's saying "of course he should be in the hall of fame. he shouldn't be punished because he had to play his prime years in canada."
Image
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yT1qnw41Mj4" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
User avatar
Scase
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,076
And1: 2,078
Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Location: Ottawa by way of MTL
       

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#49 » by Scase » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:30 am

Boogie! wrote:"Ethan Sherwood Strauss, HoopSpeak: Yes. He's the greatest dunker ever, and he happened to have a long, successful career doing a lot more than that. What went down in Toronto does not bother me. The guy didn't want to be stuck plying his trade in another country. I get it."

this part annoyed me a little bit. it's like he's saying "of course he should be in the hall of fame. he shouldn't be punished because he had to play his prime years in canada."

I read it more that he was saying Carter shouldn't have it held against him he was "stuck" in canada. Either way dick comment.
Image
Props TZ!
User avatar
UN-Owen
Veteran
Posts: 2,764
And1: 306
Joined: Oct 13, 2011

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#50 » by UN-Owen » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:32 am

Joe Dumars is in the Hall with a career PER of 15.3 and a career high of 18

Richmond's career PER is 17.6 with peak seasons of 21.6, 20.4 and 19.2

I hate the idea that what separates a Hall of Famer and a non Hall of Famer is whether or not they were lucky enough to play with some other future Hall of Famers


Everyone mentioned in this thread had a significantly better prime than Dumars
Raps in 4
RealGM
Posts: 27,705
And1: 7,384
Joined: Nov 01, 2008
Location: Toronto
 

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#51 » by Raps in 4 » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:41 am

ballislife wrote:VC for being the greatest dunker ever.

Iverson for being one of the best scorers ever.

TMac, Hill, and Sheed... I'm not so sure.


This.
Image
User avatar
Troubadour
General Manager
Posts: 8,766
And1: 2,514
Joined: Jun 18, 2007
Location: Toronto
 

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#52 » by Troubadour » Fri Dec 14, 2012 7:17 am

Allen Iverson should be a first-ballot hall of famer. Hill, no. Vince Carter, T-Mac, maybe. Sheed, eventually.
raptorscam
Pro Prospect
Posts: 865
And1: 58
Joined: Jul 08, 2006

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#53 » by raptorscam » Fri Dec 14, 2012 1:56 pm

A.I. has no business in this discussion. Advanced metrics notwithstanding the guy was one of the top couple of players in the league for a decade. He might've been a me-first player who didn't always help his team but he's one of the best me-first players there has ever been.

Not sure any of the others belong although I've heard in the past that Sheed is a guy who other players in the league consider to be an underrated, incredible player. I kinda like his candidacy for the exact opposite reason from Iverson. Seems like an awesome teammate who was good at so many things that I'd like to see him in even if the numbers don't support it. My instinct is to say "hell no" with Vince but it is easy to forget how many good seasons he had in NJ. He's still a "no" for me but he's closer than I thought he was the first time I heard this suggested...
User avatar
Raptors Aiya
Pro Prospect
Posts: 833
And1: 385
Joined: May 20, 2011
Location: NYC (North York City)
         

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#54 » by Raptors Aiya » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:01 pm

Waylon Mercy wrote:
1. Is Vince Carter a Hall of Famer?

Ethan Sherwood Strauss, HoopSpeak: The guy didn't want to be stuck plying his trade in another country. I get it.





AY YO WHO THE **** IS THIS???

VINCE DIDNT LEAVE CUZ HE DIDNT WANT TO PLAY IN ANOTHER COUNTRY. GET YO F**KIN FACTS STRAIGHT YA NARROW MINDED AMERICAN BITCH MADE A**HOLE

Sorry for the cussing, that line just made me mad.

i mean "I GET IT"???

U don't "GET" s**t!!
Image
User avatar
SDM
RealGM
Posts: 19,067
And1: 720
Joined: Jan 08, 2004

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#55 » by SDM » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:02 pm

AI is a lock. I'm lukewarm on the others, I can go either way, except Sheed who is in the Hall of Very Good.
Image
User avatar
Raptors Aiya
Pro Prospect
Posts: 833
And1: 385
Joined: May 20, 2011
Location: NYC (North York City)
         

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#56 » by Raptors Aiya » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:09 pm

Raptors Aiya wrote:
Waylon Mercy wrote:
1. Is Vince Carter a Hall of Famer?

Ethan Sherwood Strauss, HoopSpeak: The guy didn't want to be stuck plying his trade in another country. I get it.





Image

Image
Image
Tommy Gun
Head Coach
Posts: 6,240
And1: 1
Joined: Feb 24, 2003

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#57 » by Tommy Gun » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:10 pm

dTox wrote:
Also, Carter has single handily taken his team at least to the 2nd round, what the hell has Tmac ever done in the playoffs?


LOL@ Carter single handedly taking his team to the 2nd round. Is that a joke?? Davis averaged 16/12 that series and Boogie was huge too. VC fans always try to re-write the history of that series. VC had a decent series - 23 PPG on 37% shooting with a few big games. But in now way did he single handedly win that series

The same supporting cast next year went on a huge run WITHOUT VC at the end of the year and pushed the Pistons to the last second of the series. VC had a very good supporting cast that was a perfect fit for his skills
Appel:
Bargs will be an all-star while Bosh averages 10/6 in Miami
User avatar
Raptors Aiya
Pro Prospect
Posts: 833
And1: 385
Joined: May 20, 2011
Location: NYC (North York City)
         

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#58 » by Raptors Aiya » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:14 pm

Waylon Mercy wrote:
1. Is Vince Carter a Hall of Famer?

Ethan Sherwood Strauss, HoopSpeak: The guy didn't want to be stuck plying his trade in another country. I get it.




Image

Image
Image
User avatar
Homer Jay
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,494
And1: 672
Joined: Nov 30, 2003

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#59 » by Homer Jay » Fri Dec 14, 2012 2:55 pm

taimaishu wrote:
simple_jack wrote:T.Mac, A.I., and VC have ruined their legacies so much while Kobe is still in the League playing with the best of them.

Thats how you know who really works hard in the off season.

I would still put VC in the HOF just because you can't ignore that type of talent.

T.Mac and A.I playing in China kind of tarnishes their reputation.


Not to be a cheerleader but VC is older than both Kobe and T-Mac and is still putting up 12.5 points per game in 23 minutes with an above average PER. He is one of the top 5 6th men in the NBA and a darkhorse candidate for 6th man of the year. I don't think he's 'ruined' his legacy at all.....


Agreed. VC remade himself as a different player once his athleticism disappeared. That is something not a lot of players do. He's going to be 37 when this season is over, an age when most guys are retired, yet he still looks like he can play another 2-3 years. I never would have pegged him for that type of career. Most guys who rely on athleticism are done before 35.
Image
User avatar
bape_lovers
RealGM
Posts: 11,321
And1: 5,291
Joined: Oct 28, 2010
 

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#60 » by bape_lovers » Fri Dec 14, 2012 3:30 pm

I say sheed...coz he actually helped his team to get the finals and only player there with a ring..
Image

Credit to TurboZone
User avatar
orbesnet
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,886
And1: 1,244
Joined: Oct 13, 2005
Location: Brooklyn

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#61 » by orbesnet » Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:04 pm

love to see one of T-Mac of VC get in and not the other... let the rivalry continue! (green font)

Iverson is a show-in.
Image
team edward
Veteran
Posts: 2,888
And1: 1,474
Joined: Jul 28, 2010

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#62 » by team edward » Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:29 pm

If Vince had spent his entire career in Toronto he would make the HOF.

Loyal face of the franchise for an entire country, rather than what he is perceived to be.

Babcock f'ed it all up for everyone.
Image
Mattsanity
Senior
Posts: 745
And1: 14
Joined: Dec 27, 2003
Location: Toronto

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#63 » by Mattsanity » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:01 pm

AI is the only one with a lock on the HOF. He won season MVP.
User avatar
LLJ
RealGM
Posts: 40,776
And1: 4,330
Joined: Jul 10, 2003
Location: Unfixed

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#64 » by LLJ » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:06 pm

Boogie! wrote:"Ethan Sherwood Strauss, HoopSpeak: Yes. He's the greatest dunker ever, and he happened to have a long, successful career doing a lot more than that. What went down in Toronto does not bother me. The guy didn't want to be stuck plying his trade in another country. I get it."

this part annoyed me a little bit. it's like he's saying "of course he should be in the hall of fame. he shouldn't be punished because he had to play his prime years in canada."



If you read the comments for the article, the fans killed Strauss for being the most idiotic guy on this survey. VC left because we sucked, not because we were "in another country".
User avatar
lobosloboslobos
Assistant Coach
Posts: 3,862
And1: 924
Joined: Jan 08, 2009
Location: 9999 ftw

Re: ESPN: Should VC, T-Mac, A.I., Hill & Sheed Be In The H.O 

Post#65 » by lobosloboslobos » Fri Dec 14, 2012 8:49 pm

SO VC getting a gold medal in the olympics on an ultra-stacked team that could not possibly lose is a huge deal worth entry into HOF?
VC making it to the 2nd round of the playoffs is a huge deal worth entry into HOF?
VC 'reinventing himself' as a decent all-around player once he had flamed out as a superstar is a huge deal worth entry into HOF?

smh

I'll give you that he could deserve consideration because he was arguably the most spectacular dunker ever, but (tragically) nothing else he did comes close to being deserving of that honor. T-Mac was twice the top scorer in the league. VC was once the 10th scorer in the league. Tmac was 1st or 2nd all-NBA 5 times, VC was 2nd all-NBA once. Don't those strike you as rather extreme differences?

EDIT: I know I seem like a hater who doesn't appreciate what VC did for the Raps, but it ain't so. I watched most games he played in a Raps uniform and cheered myself hoarse for him over and over. But you don't make the hall of fame (or shouldn't) for being briefly youthfully great followed by the extended adult reality of being variously very good, good, decent and lame.
Image

tz ftw

Return to Toronto Raptors