Bargnani: Raps are the worst team in the NBA

[Strategist1]

A coin has two sides and the issues with our franchise are multi layered.
Whether we think Bargs is a good leader (he never claimed to be one) or should get <x amount of shots> (this is decided by coaching and/or pressured by BC), etc. There are certainly aspects of the game a player has control over and he should take responsibility for. Like I've said, there is a ton of blame to go around. As a fan, I (we) are desperate to have a winner and to have our players play hard and accountable for their actions on the court. I get that! I do not want Bargnani starting on our team. It's human nature to focus on what we perceive as the "main cause" of this organizations problems. It's then easy for some of us, to then make the next leap and imply and hope and fixate on this one individual as though they are the cause of all (or most) that is wrong and that by removing that individual player alone it will cure all (or most) of our ails.

The point is that belief is not true or factual. Or deficiencies are deep and are not simply systematic of lack of talent, but a coach learning on the job and a President and General Manager who has failed Toronto on many levels. The majority of the responsibility lies at Bryan Colangelo's feet. His vision doesn't make sense, even with a pair of thick bifocals. In the sports industry the higher up the chain of command you go, the less responsibility those individuals accept, instead it's heaped on players (who were brought here by the GM) or the coach (who was hired by the GM) or an assistant, or injuries, or whatever else that deflects blame of themselves.

I understand your comments regarding BC. In fact, I agree; he should get most of the blame. He gave Bargnani a bigger role than he should have. However, this thread highlighted Bargnani's latest comments.

And like I said; I believe Bargnani is just cold/indifferent with his comments. It might be ok to say such things about your team if you are a proven leader and lead by example. But in this case, he was just criticized by his teamates (based on reports). Now, he says the Raptors are the worse team and that there are more problems than just himself.

I judge these comments alongside all the other things he has said in the past. There's a pattern.
He never owns up and takes responsibility.

[Too Late Crew]

This is not the first time I am being criticized. But it doesn't affect me'

Basically:

People have told me I suck at certain things.
I've seen the tape that proves I suck at certain things.
I've seen the stats that prove I suck at certain things.
I recognize I suck at certain thinsg.

But WTF ya gonna do. I don't care. I'm gonna do what I do, you are gonna pay me and I'm not going to ry to improve. Deal with it.

Please get this guy outta here. I don't actually care what he says. His actions prove he just doesn't care and you can't win with guys who don't care.

[BLKMASS]

And being one of the worst teams in the NBA has a lot to do with him and how bad is he.
"Wow look at me i'm a (Please Use More Appropriate Word) 7 footer who jacks up 3 pointers all day and can't grab 3 **** rebounds a game, hehe We're the worst team in the NBA"

[witnessraps]

[Indeed]

All Bargs is saying is that HIS game, the way he plays and what he produces, is not really affected by playing with a dominant C or a lesser C. He can do what he does in either scenario. Shoot a ton of shots and not get any rebounds.

Typically Bargs is only considering the O side of the ball. Or he thinks he really is a good team defender. Which would not speak well of his ability to accept reality.

Any other player in the league would say "it would be great to play with such a dominant defensive player". It should be the first thing that pops into your head. "Dwights a great defender. Would be awesome to play with someone like him. I could see Val becoming that over time" Even if you don't mean the Val part you say it to not offend your team.

Not sure what you were reading, he said: 'I'm having my career and improving year-by-year. It's the team that needed a dominant center more than I do'

[22haytham22]

Yes and you are a huge part of the reason why we are the worst, so please just leave, just go, be gone...please

[Ado05]

This man speaks the truth, I dont see why were mad /greenfont

[BorisDK1]

Blame as much as you want to Bargnani, clearly it won't help us on free agent and resigning Lowry, they are not perfect neither.

Okay, now you're talking out both sides of your mouth.

You cannot argue that Bargnani is somehow helpful in getting good free agents here and then simultaneously claim that the team has somehow failed him by failing to get good free agents here. If he's a guy everybody wants to come and play with, why they haven't come? I think it's obvious that few NBA players want to play with Bargnani. Based on what Koreen said last week, it appears that those players include most of Bargnani's current teammates.

The reality is that poor teams very seldom can successfully improve through free agency. There has to be an attraction for a great player to come to another team in free agency. Maybe it's the geography, maybe there's a good team you can come join, or maybe it's the allure of playing for an historic franchise. Toronto doesn't have the worst geography, it isn't an historic franchise (unless we're talking about comedic value, in which it tops the list) and obviously Bargnani isn't a player anybody really puts a whole lot of interest into playing with.

I get that you like Bargnani. I get that you're trying to defend his reputation against the idea that he's completely hapless on the basketball court (even though the evidence kind of suggests that). I started off liking the lazy git, too - but eventually his low level of competitiveness and willingness to sell out his teammates on the floor (which is what he does every time an opponent rips the ball out of hands on the glass and scores, or when a loose ball trickles right by his feet, or he fails to space out properly on dribble penetration or throws a pass at a teammates' ankles) just overcame that goofy likeableness he has. I'd hate to play with a guy like that, if I were any sort of a competitor.

The Raptors can never win with Bargnani bearing in the mid- to high-20s percentages of the team's possessions while he's on the floor. Simply put, he was never that good at the things he was supposed to be really good at and there's not much any franchise can do about that. They should have shuffled him along years ago.

Now comes the end. And honestly, things are looking brighter. Valanciunas looks good. If Davis doesn't snap and kill Bargnani and spend the next 25 years in Kingston, he's going to be pretty good I think. DeRozan looks unacceptably weak, honestly, but Lowry is a top 10 point guard in this league with no difficulty. If the Raptors can salvage some cap space and maybe a 1st round pick out of Bargnani, we're a much better team next year than we are this year.

[Clutch Carter]

I'm not sure why people are all up in arms, they say the same thing here every day, it's the truth at this point.

[lander]

Lol Barg took a shot at Jonas with his centre comment.

Anyone who thinks he took any personal responsibility is kidding themselves. His quote smacks of a delusional person. My god he just basically said whatever if I struggle it doesn't matter because I'm improving (lol) my teammates suck that's why this team sucks.

I think BC and Bargs are quite possibly the least self aware people I have ever had the displeasure of observing.

I just want to tell Andrea to get the **** off my team.

lol, not sure what you are reading. He never said his teammates, but he said you need these position or these elements to be a team. He is saying he cannot provide every elements for the team, the team needs this elements no matter what.

Or perhaps there's a language barrier... and no I don't mean for me.

He doesn't need to spell it out does he? The meaning was clear at least imo.
It's clear to me reading all the posts in this thread that there are those want to project that Andrea is being honest when in reality Andrea is just being who he is, which is a completely oblivious guy, oblivious to his own ability and lack there of. A few weeks ago he was referring to himself as the franchise and I think he still believes he's that good. Now that he sucks it's everyone else's fault?

LOL at not provide every element???????????? Wow what element does he provide exactly? I can tell you what he doesn't provide scoring (efficiently) on top of no defence and no rebounding (but then it's not defence or rebound ball is it). I thought offence was supposed to be the thing he can provide, but he's scoring 16 points on 15.2 shots so he can't even do that.

Don't portray him as a misunderstood victim. If anything Andrea is the complete opposite considering this organization has coddled him to the detriment of the team, the other players and the fans.

As far as Jonas goes Andrea said (paraphrasing here), I don't need a dominant centre the team needs one. Sounds like a shot to me. I know Jonas is not dominant, but why even bring the Raptors centre situation into the interview? Why do this when the question was about him being possibly traded to LA and how he would potentially play with Howard?

[NYPDinformant]

This thread is just another example of how true Doug Smiths words of Raptors fans being idiots is.

Colonangelo and his crew of dimwits attempted to cast Bargnani in a role he was not capable of filling. At best he is a sixth man. AT BEST.

Bargnani has shown what he was capable of since day 1. This isn't a Vince Carter situation where a guy with talent lays down.

This is like drafting Jamario Moon number 1, giving him 10 million and then complaining that he doesn't play like LeBron.

BC overevaluted Bargnani as a player and then attempted to force him into a role he would never be capable of fullfilling. Has he played any different these past 7 years to warrant these lofty expectations?

Following Bargnani on BCs list of f ups is Derozan and Fields. Two other players severely overvalued both in terms of playing time and contract. BC followed the same path with all three of these guys. He tried to turn derozan into Vince Carter and Fields to Battier. All failures. Is there any difference aside from draft position? Contracts are very similar.

[Truthrising]

This thread is just another example of how true Doug Smiths words of Raptors fans being idiots is.

Colonangelo and his crew of dimwits attempted to cast Bargnani in a role he was not capable of filling. At best he is a sixth man. AT BEST.

Bargnani has shown what he was capable of since day 1. This isn't a Vince Carter situation where a guy with talent lays down.

This is like drafting Jamario Moon number 1, giving him 10 million and then complaining that he doesn't play like LeBron.

BC overevaluted Bargnani as a player and then attempted to force him into a role he would never be capable of fullfilling. Has he played any different these past 7 years to warrant these lofty expectations?

Following Bargnani on BCs list of f ups is Derozan and Fields. Two other players severely overvalued both in terms of playing time and contract. BC followed the same path with all three of these guys. He tried to turn derozan into Vince Carter and Fields to Battier. All failures. Is there any difference aside from draft position? Contracts are very similar.

Indeed, much of the Bargnani detractors fail to realize it is the GM who has given these bloated contracts in the first place in "hopes" of having said player to live up to that expectation. Same can be said for giving the contract to Derozan and Fields as you've mentioned.

[BorisDK1]

As far as Jonas goes Andrea said (paraphrasing here), I don't need a dominant centre the team needs one. Sounds like a shot to me. I know Jonas is not dominant, but why even bring the Raptors centre situation into the interview? Why do this when the question was about him being possibly traded to LA and how he would potentially play with Howard?

I think you misread him, there. He wasn't taking a shot at Jonas. He was answering a question about what it would be like to play with Howard, and how much would it help him? He's simply saying it's not going to really help him much at all. He simply appears to think that his game is just fine the way it is - offensively and defensively - and Howard's just another guy to play with.

I agree with others that what Bargnani said isn't outrageous, except for one thing: the complete lack of self-awareness and the lack of ability to press himself to improve. He's just not much of a competitor.

It would make us all feel good if he confessed to being a self-indulgent lazy git, but he's probably not going to do that. Nor, frankly, should he. For the sake of his trade value, he should continue to pretend that he's just fine the way he is.

[ReaLiez]

get this scrub outta here

[Moon Walk]

I wonder who actually wears his jersey... complete embarrassment!

[Just Win Baby]

As far as Jonas goes Andrea said (paraphrasing here), I don't need a dominant centre the team needs one. Sounds like a shot to me. I know Jonas is not dominant, but why even bring the Raptors centre situation into the interview? Why do this when the question was about him being possibly traded to LA and how he would potentially play with Howard?

I think you misread him, there. He wasn't taking a shot at Jonas. He was answering a question about what it would be like to play with Howard, and how much would it help him? He's simply saying it's not going to really help him much at all. He simply appears to think that his game is just fine the way it is - offensively and defensively - and Howard's just another guy to play with.

In a way I think he meant that playing with Howard won't affect his personal weaknesses. As in while Dwight may pick up/complement his rebounding slack, it won't change the fact that he struggles to rebound.

He says the team needed a dominant C and that is absolutely true, we have been playing power forwards in that position for a few years now. Not necessarily a shot at Valanciunas who is still a new face. I think Bargs was saying that getting a true center was long over due.

[lander]

As far as Jonas goes Andrea said (paraphrasing here), I don't need a dominant centre the team needs one. Sounds like a shot to me. I know Jonas is not dominant, but why even bring the Raptors centre situation into the interview? Why do this when the question was about him being possibly traded to LA and how he would potentially play with Howard?

I think you misread him, there. He wasn't taking a shot at Jonas. He was answering a question about what it would be like to play with Howard, and how much would it help him? He's simply saying it's not going to really help him much at all. He simply appears to think that his game is just fine the way it is - offensively and defensively - and Howard's just another guy to play with.

I agree with others that what Bargnani said isn't outrageous, except for one thing: the complete lack of self-awareness and the lack of ability to press himself to improve. He's just not much of a competitor.

It would make us all feel good if he confessed to being a self-indulgent lazy git, but he's probably not going to do that. Nor, frankly, should he. For the sake of his trade value, he should continue to pretend that he's just fine the way he is.

You're right, I did make the mistake of thinking he said "the team needs a dominant centre more than I do" instead of needed a dominant centre more than I do. I guess he's talking about all those years the Raptors didn't get a centre because they thought he could be one. If anything though it just goes to show you how delusional he is since he's completely divorced himself of the fact that he's partly responsible for his sucking at it. He along with Colangelo is the reason why he wasn't better at that position. Colangelo is responsible too he should've known better.

[Coconut]

Words from a loser.

[BorisDK1]

You're right, I did make the mistake of thinking he said "the team needs a dominant centre more than I do" instead of needed a dominant centre more than I do.

That's fine...except he said nothing about Jonas and it wasn't intended as a slight towards Jonas at all; he was talking about how his play would change when playing with a dominant center - period. You're trying to manufacture drama and outrage when Bargnani's the last guy you need to do that for. (There's plenty of available reasons why we should be outraged by Bargnani, but frankly this interview is not one of them.)

I guess he's talking about all those years the Raptors didn't get a centre because they thought he could be one. If anything though it just goes to show you how delusional he is since he's completely divorced himself of the fact that he's partly responsible for his sucking at it. He along with Colangelo is the reason why he wasn't better at that position. Colangelo is responsible too he should've known better.

To be fair to Colangelo, Bargnani hasn't failed any more at the center position than he has at the power forward position. It honestly hasn't mattered at all.

[zilby]

I attempted to put that Italian article through Google translate.

The injury, the hardship of Toronto, the rumors in the background with the rumors of his transfer to the Lakers. Andrea Bargnani tells all his frustration to a season that began with so many expectations but it soon took a turn for the worse for his Raptors, the second worst NBA team with a record of 4 wins and 19 losses (only Washington did worse) and capable losing 12 of their last 13 games. And he, more in the line of fire of criticism, which is traveling at 16 points and 4.4 rebounds in equality, its worst figures since 2008-09. The downside is the latest tear to the ligament of the right elbow and stretching his right wrist that does not allow him to return to the field before 2013.

Andrea, what are your physical condition?
"I'm not the best. I had a nasty fall in the game against Portland. I was lucky not to break anything, but there is a partial tear of the ligament of the elbow, which was injured. It 'something that will require a little' time "

What are the expected recovery time?
"There are no exact dates to be seen day after day how it goes. Hard to say now when I go back in the field. Certainly be more than three weeks, I will do other controls in ten days."

He was hurt in a negative moment, both team and personal: what's happening?
"It did not work anything from the beginning of the season. We pretty much the worst NBA team. The summer market was made to build a winning team, but we are not winning. We are below all expectations. Nobody is used to playing with anyone. We won 4 games: it's a tragic thing, from whatever side you look at it is a desperate situation. 4 years that I keep losing. To improve the only thing for now is to win and we did not. "

Its performance depends on what?
"Goes hand in hand with that of the team. Many ups and downs, even though I was traveling at 17-18 points per game. Yet the personal performance is irrelevant in a situation like this. Could easily do 50 points race and the frustration would be identical. If you're in a team that loses in this way, what you do matters relatively. ".

You hear the scapegoat for the situation in Toronto?
"This is not the first time I've criticized. When things go well, the stronger becomes the most valuable, when they go wrong the people who have the pressure on him must indicate someone to put the blame, even to lighten their position. But it does not affect me even remotely. "

Wednesday against Brooklyn did not play, but this was the first home game after a long series of journeys, he expected to be booed?
"When we're down by 10-15 points is a bit 'of a challenge, but about the team. Though I do not play one against five: those whistles can not be addressed only to me."

There are so many rumors concerning him.
"Exchanges are not something you can control. Obviously I hear the voices: If you should happen, it will happen.'m Ready for any eventuality. But I have no say in the matter: it is not that I can call a team rather than another, or say to My agent where I want to go. It 's all in the hands of the manager, so I did not touch at all. I play basketball, if I have to play in another city I'll go elsewhere, if I stay here I'll be in Toronto. It's a job. "

http://www.gazzetta.it/Nba/14-12-2012/f ... 7823.shtml

Defeatist attitude. Sounds like he kind of wants out but overall doesn't give a ****.