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Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (Update: Pg 3)

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Post#61 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:04 pm by duppyy

Alfred wrote:Larry Tanenbaum really seems to have Bryan's back for some reason.


BC is a company guy.

Weren't there rumors that BC might take over Peddie's job after he retired?
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Post#62 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:12 pm by J-Roc

It is an odd thing is pro sports, where if you let a guy go, you will hardly ever see him again. Not just because of possible animosity, but because Colangelo would probably move to Phoenix to become president of the Coyotes. Maybe Larry T just wants to hang with Bryan over Christmas.
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Post#63 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:14 pm by ballocks

I may be alone 'round these parts but I'm glad. I'd give BC the rest of this season to see what he can do. I question several of his major moves but I always wonder what the background is when it comes to this team. I'd prefer not to give MLSE another fall guy. If the problem is systemic (or rather, 'organic' lol) to the organization, I wouldn't want any fans fooled by simply bringing another pawn in the game. I'm wary of using anyone as a scapegoat at this point; I'm more worried by how Colangelo's efforts seem to parallel Babcock's and Grunwald's before him, than I am that he's unqualified for the job per se.

Also, BC has proven to be relatively adept on the trade front. If this team is forced to move Bargnani now (arguably at his lowest point) due to immense public pressure, I do have some confidence in BC's ability to parlay value from him. You might question his strategy or vision, but he has on multiple occasions rescued his own errors. The community complains about Turkoglu to this day, for example, but Colangelo managed to get out from under that contract after just one season- and turned him into Barbosa, who was more than serviceable here. Why are we complaining about five years when we only 'suffered' for one? I don't know. But we do.

Likewise, he gets a bad rap for Kapono but... he ultimately flipped him for Reggie. Maybe he doesn't acquire the right players in the first place, that's certainly a point to be made since his FA record is atrocious, but he's skilled at moving them before they ultimately die here, which is equally important- if not more so... especially if you're talking about a player like Bargnani now, who finds himself immersed in a desperate situation, and fits the same category to a large extent.

I might as well keep popping and go out with a bang- or a thud :). I have no problems with the JO deal, either. TJ and Rasho were spent, so what are we really talking about here? Critics can berate Colangelo for Hibbert but it's a stretch to me- at worst it's not a trade issue, but a draft issue. You can complain about one, but not both. To say that he traded away a future All-Star for Jermaine O'Neal is a fractured argument imo, since Hibbert was never on the table for them. JO was indeed a "swing and a miss" but the alternative was hardly better, so I can't justify the criticism- at least not on that basis.

And not to be forgotten, I strongly feel he engineered one of the most overlooked Ripley's Believe it or Not trades in history by dumping Hoffa for Hump. I don't understand how we got anything for Hoffa- there was basically just one suitor that would even consider taking a flier due to his Brigham Young ties, and not only did Colangelo consummate the deal, he managed to return a half-decent young piece from the same lottery (!). In fact, you could argue that BC got more for Rafael Araujo than Babcock got for Vince. Just saying. I mean, BC takes a lot of flack for bidding against himself at times, and rightfully so, but I should hope the same holds true in Utah with Kevin O'Connor and other GMs around the league when they take the same bait.

Either way, I want to give Colangelo a final chance to see what he can do on the trade market with Bargnani, and then judge him from there. This team can ill afford to lose Bargs for nothing and Colangelo, like it or not, has proven that he can sometimes make chicken salad under duress. But the clock is ticking, no doubt. Bargnani's injury- assuming it's legit- is not helping the cause.

peace
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Post#64 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:17 pm by lucky777s

MLSE may also be worried that the season could get even worse, like DEAD LAST by a mile and want to save their one big move, FIRING BC, for such a time when the fans are really revolting.

They may not understand that dumping him now will give them more breathing room and just the idea of the new GM search will keep fans attentions well enough. They can blame all the teams woes on BC, and in this case that would even be the truth so there is no risk of backlash.
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Post#65 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:23 pm by rove

lucky777s wrote:MLSE may also be worried that the season could get even worse, like DEAD LAST by a mile and want to save their one big move, FIRING BC, for such a time when the fans are really revolting.

They may not understand that dumping him now will give them more breathing room and just the idea of the new GM search will keep fans attentions well enough. They can blame all the teams woes on BC, and in this case that would even be the truth so there is no risk of backlash.


You're right. The ownership also don't understand the importance of bringing someone in who can PROPERLY scout the talents. He can take his time instead of scrambling like Babcock did when he was brought in a couple short months before the draft.
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Post#66 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:24 pm by Major Giz

To tank and try and get Wiggins is WAY too risky. Seriously. Can you imagine if they tank and DON'T get that #1 pick and not get Wiggins? This is 2014 we're talking about, which leads to at least 3 years from now POSSIBLY getting a player that MIGHT save the franchise. One ping pong ball or injury away from this franchise spiraling into the ground and ending up in Seattle.

How many F@#CKING rebuilds does this GAWDDAMN fanbase want to go through!?

I, for one, am sick and tired of it.
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Post#67 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:26 pm by Beardman

ballocks wrote:I may be alone 'round these parts but I'm glad. I'd give BC the rest of this season to see what he can do. I question several of his major moves but I always wonder what the background is when it comes to this team. I'd prefer not to give MLSE another fall guy. If the problem is systemic (or rather, 'organic' lol) to the organization, I wouldn't want any fans fooled by simply bringing another pawn in the game. I'm wary of using anyone as a scapegoat at this point; I'm more worried by how Colangelo's efforts seem to parallel Babcock's and Grunwald's before him, than I am that he's unqualified for the job per se.

Also, BC has proven to be relatively adept on the trade front. If this team is forced to move Bargnani now (arguably at his lowest point) due to immense public pressure, I do have some confidence in BC's ability to parlay value from him. You might question his strategy or vision, but he has on multiple occasions rescued his own errors. The community complains about Turkoglu to this day, for example, but Colangelo managed to get out from under that contract after just one season- and turned him into Barbosa, who was more than serviceable here. Why are we complaining about five years when we only 'suffered' for one? I don't know. But we do.

Likewise, he gets a bad rap for Kapono but... he ultimately flipped him for Reggie. Maybe he doesn't acquire the right players in the first place, that's certainly a point to be made since his FA record is atrocious, but he's skilled at moving them before they ultimately die here, which is equally important- if not more so... especially if you're talking about a player like Bargnani now, who finds himself immersed in a desperate situation, and fits the same category to a large extent.

I might as well keep popping and go out with a bang- or a thud :). I have no problems with the JO deal, either. TJ and Rasho were spent, so what are we really talking about here? Critics can berate Colangelo for Hibbert but it's a stretch to me- at worst it's not a trade issue, but a draft issue. You can complain about one, but not both. To say that he traded away a future All-Star for Jermaine O'Neal is a fractured argument imo, since Hibbert was never on the table for them. JO was indeed a "swing and a miss" but the alternative was hardly better, so I can't justify the criticism- at least not on that basis.

And not to be forgotten, I strongly feel he engineered one of the most overlooked Ripley's Believe it or Not trades in history by dumping Hoffa for Hump. I don't understand how we got anything for Hoffa- there was basically just one suitor that would even consider taking a flier due to his Brigham Young ties, and not only did Colangelo consummate the deal, he managed to return a half-decent young piece from the same lottery (!). In fact, you could argue that BC got more for Rafael Araujo than Babcock got for Vince. Just saying. I mean, BC takes a lot of flack for bidding against himself at times, and rightfully so, but I should hope the same holds true in Utah with Kevin O'Connor and other GMs around the league when they take the same bait.

Either way, I want to give Colangelo a final chance to see what he can do on the trade market with Bargnani, and then judge him from there. This team can ill afford to lose Bargs for nothing and Colangelo, like it or not, has proven that he can sometimes make chicken salad under duress. But the clock is ticking, no doubt. Bargnani's injury- assuming it's legit- is not helping the cause.

peace
In so many words, basically you still believe in BC and think that if he where to be fired, he would just be a "fall guy" for MLSE ... the company who agreed upon the evaluation that Hedo is worth 50 mil/ 5 years, Jose at 40 mil, Bargs extended for 50 mil during his rookie contract etc... they believed in him, nobody would blame them at this point for firing BC.

Yeah MLSE cares more about profit than winning, but they gave BC a ton of leeway and he has failed the organization in terms of producing a winning product. He deserves to be canned.
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Post#68 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:40 pm by CoachJReturns

Finding someone with some basketball knowledge to oversee the team is a good thing, but I don't want MLSE waiting to fire his dumb a*s. He must know his job is not secure and the possibility of him doing something stupid to try and save his job, while simultaneously screwing the team for years to come is a real possibility.
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Post#69 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:42 pm by Yoga

GooniesNeverDie wrote:it's time to escalate our cause.. it's time to distribute flyers and make our voices be heard. bc needs to go


+1000000000000000000000, FireBC.com, Twitter, Facebook and foot soldiers will put pressure on the org
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Post#70 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:42 pm by duppyy

If only we could steal San Antonio's GM lol.
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Post#71 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 4:51 pm by C_Money

I don't believe Grange for one second. He's about as reliable as Doug Smith with his "sources".
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Post#72 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:11 pm by ballocks

Beardman wrote:In so many words, basically you still believe in BC and think that if he where to be fired, he would just be a "fall guy" for MLSE ... the company who agreed upon the evaluation that Hedo is worth 50 mil/ 5 years, Jose at 40 mil, Bargs extended for 50 mil during his rookie contract etc... they believed in him, nobody would blame them at this point for firing BC.


I think you missed the point, brother. Yes, he signed Turkoglu to a 5/53- but he got out from under it almost as soon as possible. Hedo's albatross is not on the books anymore. Why are we complaining about a deal that we're not paying for? Hell, we got a pretty good player on a decent contract out of it (Leandro)? That's a rabbit out of a hat as far as I'm concerned. I can''t explain it- and it doesn't mean that I do or don't endorse the terms of the original contract- but he's demonstrated that he can save himself a few times. If that's not Turkoglu's market value anymore, that's fine, but you need to take Phoenix up on it as well... not to mention Orlando. Colangelo isn't the only one to sign off on that contract over the past 3.5 years.

When it comes to Bargnani, dude, I never thought he was worth that money myself- but there were people here and in the Toronto media, the same ones ostracizing him today, who thought he was a bargain (their word, not mine) as recently as two months ago! I'm not saying he's worth 5/50 right now or that he ever was, but he is the same guy. I mean, are we complaining about that contract just because he went into... a slump? It's unbelievable what's going on these days. Let's make sure we're not putting our collective foot in our mouth vis a vis how we felt about these exact same things just a few months back.

And for the record, I've never been a Bargnani (or even for that matter Colangelo) fan, but seeing people hop from one bandwagon to the next rubs me the wrong way. If we're going to criticize BC for something, let's at least ensure we're not contradicting ourselves in the process. That's all. I have yet to see a reasonable argument as to why he should be fired now- right. now.- as opposed to two weeks ago, two years ago, or two months or years from now. It just seems like some fans are losing their minds trying to find someone to blame. It's very much like CB in 2010. You had fans calling for his head, let him walk for nothing and all kinds of other nonsense- and here we are 3 years later still trying to sift through the wreckage. If you're going to get rid of someone, you need to make sure that you do it on the right terms and at the right time. If you do it as part of an emotional outburst, chances are you'll regret it. \Yoda :)

peace
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Post#73 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:16 pm by grumpwalter

ballocks wrote:
Beardman wrote:In so many words, basically you still believe in BC and think that if he where to be fired, he would just be a "fall guy" for MLSE ... the company who agreed upon the evaluation that Hedo is worth 50 mil/ 5 years, Jose at 40 mil, Bargs extended for 50 mil during his rookie contract etc... they believed in him, nobody would blame them at this point for firing BC.


I think you missed the point, brother. Yes, he signed Turkoglu to a 5/53- but he got out from under it almost as soon as possible. Hedo's albatross is not on the books anymore. Why are we complaining about a deal that we're not paying for? Hell, we got a pretty good player on a decent contract out of it (Leandro)? That's a rabbit out of a hat as far as I'm concerned. I can''t explain it- and it doesn't mean that I do or don't endorse the terms of the original contract- but he's demonstrated that he can save himself a few times. If that's not Turkoglu's market value anymore, that's fine, but you need to take Phoenix up on it as well... not to mention Orlando. Colangelo isn't the only one to sign off on that contract over the past 3.5 years.

When it comes to Bargnani, dude, I never thought he was worth that money myself- but there were people here and in the Toronto media, the same ones ostracizing him today, who thought he was a bargain (their word, not mine) as recently as two months ago! I'm not saying he's worth 5/50 right now or that he ever was, but he is the same guy. I mean, are we complaining about that contract just because he went into... a slump? It's unbelievable what's going on these days. Let's make sure we're not putting our collective foot in our mouth vis a vis how we felt about these exact same things just a few months back.

And for the record, I've never been a Bargnani (or even for that matter Colangelo) fan, but seeing people hop from one bandwagon to the next rubs me the wrong way. If we're going to criticize BC for something, let's at least ensure we're not contradicting ourselves in the process. That's all. I have yet to see a reasonable argument as to why he should be fired now- right. now.- as opposed to two weeks ago, two years ago, or two months or years from now. It just seems like some fans are losing their minds trying to find someone to blame. It's very much like CB in 2010. You had fans calling for his head, let him walk for nothing and all kinds of other nonsense- and here we are 3 years later still trying to sift through the wreckage. If you're going to get rid of someone, you need to make sure that you do it on the right terms and at the right time. If you do it as part of an emotional outburst, chances are you'll regret it. \Yoda :)

peace


The Hedo trade was LUCK, so unless BC told the phoenix suns to hire Hedo's former agent, he should get no credit and still owes Phoenix a public thank you.
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Post#74 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:20 pm by Jer15Jer

I'll be the voice of the minority. I think Bryan is still the man for the job.

I think he brings great leadership to the organization and I believe in him as a GM.

No, he hasn't been flawless but he's certainly had a lot of bad luck.
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Post#75 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:28 pm by Beardman

Jer15Jer wrote:I'll be the voice of the minority. I think Bryan is still the man for the job.

I think he brings great leadership to the organization and I believe in him as a GM.

No, he hasn't been flawless but he's certainly had a lot of bad luck.

I find your credulous attitude amusing. I think you just posted this to spite others.
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Post#76 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:36 pm by Beardman

ballocks wrote:
Beardman wrote:In so many words, basically you still believe in BC and think that if he where to be fired, he would just be a "fall guy" for MLSE ... the company who agreed upon the evaluation that Hedo is worth 50 mil/ 5 years, Jose at 40 mil, Bargs extended for 50 mil during his rookie contract etc... they believed in him, nobody would blame them at this point for firing BC.


I think you missed the point, brother. Yes, he signed Turkoglu to a 5/53- but he got out from under it almost as soon as possible. Hedo's albatross is not on the books anymore. Why are we complaining about a deal that we're not paying for? Hell, we got a pretty good player on a decent contract out of it (Leandro)? That's a rabbit out of a hat as far as I'm concerned. I can''t explain it- and it doesn't mean that I do or don't endorse the terms of the original contract- but he's demonstrated that he can save himself a few times. If that's not Turkoglu's market value anymore, that's fine, but you need to take Phoenix up on it as well... not to mention Orlando. Colangelo isn't the only one to sign off on that contract over the past 3.5 years.

When it comes to Bargnani, dude, I never thought he was worth that money myself- but there were people here and in the Toronto media, the same ones ostracizing him today, who thought he was a bargain (their word, not mine) as recently as two months ago! I'm not saying he's worth 5/50 right now or that he ever was, but he is the same guy. I mean, are we complaining about that contract just because he went into... a slump? It's unbelievable what's going on these days. Let's make sure we're not putting our collective foot in our mouth vis a vis how we felt about these exact same things just a few months back.

And for the record, I've never been a Bargnani (or even for that matter Colangelo) fan, but seeing people hop from one bandwagon to the next rubs me the wrong way. If we're going to criticize BC for something, let's at least ensure we're not contradicting ourselves in the process. That's all. I have yet to see a reasonable argument as to why he should be fired now- right. now.- as opposed to two weeks ago, two years ago, or two months or years from now. It just seems like some fans are losing their minds trying to find someone to blame. It's very much like CB in 2010. You had fans calling for his head, let him walk for nothing and all kinds of other nonsense- and here we are 3 years later still trying to sift through the wreckage. If you're going to get rid of someone, you need to make sure that you do it on the right terms and at the right time. If you do it as part of an emotional outburst, chances are you'll regret it. \Yoda :)

peace
Regardless to whether or not he '"fixed" his previous mistakes, he still continues to make them.

He has signed off on at least 200 million in bad contracts. The likes of Kapono, Kleiza, Fields etc. He has nothing to show for any of it. Signing players to atrocious deals and then floundering to move them the following off season is a bad thing, but somehow you make it seem like he should be applauded for doing so ...
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Post#77 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:41 pm by lucky777s

Ballocks, for all his great fixes there are 3 undeniable truths:

1. We never end up with anything good long term from all his efforts.

2. He throws away first round picks to clear up many of his mistakes.

3. Making a big mistake and then just erasing it only accomplishes wasting another year of Raptor basketball, no progress is made.

Getting Hump was a nice trade, but where is he now? He never helped us much. What did Barbosa do for us? And don't forget that Hedo had to eat a year of his deal just to get out of town. BC is very, very lucky that Hedo wanted out badly enough to do that - not many players would. I liked Reggie Evans but where is he now, not here. James Johnson, Bayless, Weems - nothing for any of them. Its a revolving door.

When Babs signed Rafer to a big deal and it failed he immediately turned Rafer into the expiring Mike James. Now that was a good trade. We probably could have re-signed him to a reasonable deal and used Charlie V to fill another hole or not draft Bargs to fill that other hole.
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Post#78 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:51 pm by Fats Elmore

Seems like Grange wrote the article after an extensive off the record convo with BC

Re: Getting a saviour - We need Wiggins to emphatically say he only wants to play here in order to draft him. Otherwise it just aint happening.
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Post#79 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 5:51 pm by sanity

RE: (page 3):

...****!
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Post#80 Re: Grange: BC won't be fired anytime soon (U
Fri Dec 14, 2012 6:01 pm by Tofubeque

Can't wait to see BC get a corporate promotion for the embarrassment he's made of this team in the last 7 years. FML
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