PG: Raptors establish a winning culture

[J-Roc]

The real question is, are we better without Bargnani, or are we better without Lowry.

The team rarely looks cohesive with Lowry at the helm...

You know all those possessions last night that resulted in guys jacking up long shots that everyone knew were bad shots? If we had Lowry, those possessions would have ended in him taking a drive to the rim to try to make something happen. But even if he failed to score, at least we'd be watching proper basketball.

[lucky777s]

I may be the only person that sees him as a great sub off the bench. Not saying he's not starter material, but looking at other subs he could really provide a boost similar to theirs in the near future. Like current J.R. Smith, who's actually playing defense and passing the ball.

Yeah, that is a pretty average looking highlight package. Way too early to put a ceiling on him but he has a long way to go. People need to get over the breakaway dunk lovefest or a hot shooting night and evaluate guys based on the whole package they have shown. Ross is a guy that should be able to stick in the league. But it will depend on fit and getting the PT. Best place for him now is on a bad team like Raps.

[lucky777s]

You know all those possessions last night that resulted in guys jacking up long shots that everyone knew were bad shots? If we had Lowry, those possessions would have ended in him taking a drive to the rim to try to make something happen. But even if he failed to score, at least we'd be watching proper basketball.

It was definitely a strange game. Almost half our shots were threes. Extremely low TOs. Way more shot attempts than DAL.

I don't see any carryover from this game against teams that will play better than DAL did last night. Other than a bit of confidence for the players.

Still, whether luck or circumstance play a big part or not, our record without Lowry is much more respectable. If that were the case with Jose this year there would be no excuses.

[fredericklove]

Sorry folks, didn't watch the game. It was joke rather then a serious analysis type of thing. So was Kleiza actually playing power forward, with Davis/Amir manning center? None the less, I think the spacing thing is overrated when you factor in how bad the defense has been this season. Defense will win more games in the long run. Spacing can be solved later on, but you shouldn't have to sacrifice defense and rebounding for it.

Without Andrea we thought we could see more of Davis but he and Jonas were benched a lot in the 4th, Casey sticks w/ the LK small lineup which was understandable cos dude was on fire so sure a win is a win cos we shot the lights out but I'd prefer J+Ed in the long run. Funny Casey used LK as stretch 4, he used his own poor man's Dallas version lineup mentality against his former club.

jose/Lucas/Demar/LK/Amir = Kidd/terry/Marion/dirk/chandler

[Indeed]

Sorry folks, didn't watch the game. It was joke rather then a serious analysis type of thing. So was Kleiza actually playing power forward, with Davis/Amir manning center? None the less, I think the spacing thing is overrated when you factor in how bad the defense has been this season. Defense will win more games in the long run. Spacing can be solved later on, but you shouldn't have to sacrifice defense and rebounding for it.

Our bigs (including Acy) played 57 mins (48 + 19), and I wonder if our defense is better or Dallas has so many unforced turnover (said by the Dallas commentators). The defense is better, but I would like to see how much better stopping ball penetration, as I agree with someone who said Calderon is capable of stay in front of Fisher and Collison may not be the best indication of our defense.

[Indeed]

You know all those possessions last night that resulted in guys jacking up long shots that everyone knew were bad shots? If we had Lowry, those possessions would have ended in him taking a drive to the rim to try to make something happen. But even if he failed to score, at least we'd be watching proper basketball.

It was definitely a strange game. Almost half our shots were threes. Extremely low TOs. Way more shot attempts than DAL.

I don't see any carryover from this game against teams that will play better than DAL did last night. Other than a bit of confidence for the players.

Still, whether luck or circumstance play a big part or not, our record without Lowry is much more respectable. If that were the case with Jose this year there would be no excuses.

I wouldn't put too much blame on Lowry. We have too many players who demanded the ball, and having Jonas didn't help Lowry into rhythm. I still think Lowry is an upgrade over Calderon, and the major reason we win is because of Ross and others are hitting 3s, which has more to do than Lowry.

You may argue our wins have to do with Kleiza scoring off the bench. We need that bench scoring, and we need to share the ball within our starting lineup (less scorer to the starting lineup, more hustle players to the starting lineup).

[LLJ]

Terrence Ross highlights

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=isUhsxQd7k0&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

I may be the only person that sees him as a great sub off the bench. Not saying he's not starter material, but looking at other subs he could really provide a boost similar to theirs in the near future. Like current J.R. Smith, who's actually playing defense and passing the ball.

He doesn't have enough of an all around game to be a starter. I still think he's close to a young JR Smith. He's a volume shooter. People look at his percentages and say it's bad, but if you watch him, he's definitely a guy who can fill it up in a hurry from anywhere on the court. He's kind of a chucker, which is why his percentages aren't as good as you hope. He's not like JJ Redick who takes only good shots, Ross will put it up anytime he gets daylight. But he does have the form and look of a good shooter, but less in the mode of specialists like Kerr and Blake and more in the mode of, say, Eddie House. So his percentages will never look great unless he adopts the mindset of a conservative shooter.

Ideally, he's someone you have off the bench to provide offence and hopefully good defence. His defence IMO will determine whether he ends up first or 4th off the bench in his career.

[Undefeated]

Kleiza was no zone buster. Raptors had to call a timeout because they didn't know how to attack it. It was Raps 15-14. The idea of a stretch big or playing small ball is overrated. As long as the guards/wings can make open triples out of quick ball reversals and kick-outs from the mid post they should still be able to counter against it. Bigs that have a nose for going after any loose ball like Ed and Jonas is only a bonus because the zone defense is susceptible to allowing offensive rebounds meaning extra possessions.

[D-BE-LAW]

dwayne casey knows how to beat his old team

[team edward]

Kleiza was no zone buster. Raptors had to call a timeout because they didn't know how to attack it. It was Raps 15-14. The idea of a stretch big or playing small ball is overrated. As long as the guards/wings can make open triples out of quick ball reversals and kick-outs from the mid post they should still be able to counter against it. Bigs that have a nose for going after any loose ball like Ed and Jonas is only a bonus because the zone defense is susceptible to allowing offensive rebounds meaning extra possessions.

Well Kleiza is what he is. But last night Dallas was making a run based on their zone defence. Putting in Kleiza, a shooter on a team with terrible shooters, put a plug in that hole. It was the right call by Casey and we ended up with a ~20 point win against a decent team.

[VinBaker6]

I've always wanted to get this off my chest, but Rick Carlisle is a Jim Carrey clone. Looks and sounds like him.

[UnderdogRaptors]

All we have to do is go on nice win streaks and we can be back in the playoff hunt. It would be prime if we went on 5 game win streak, lost 1, 3 game win streak, lost another 1, and then 6 game win streak just to get up to speed and get ourselves a nice spot in the playoffs. Oh, an then knock New York out in the first round.

Knicks fans would cry if we eliminate them again

[RapsFanInVA]

I've always wanted to get this off my chest, but Rick Carlisle is a Jim Carrey clone. Looks and sounds like him.

More like a bizarro twin, based on their polar opposite personalities

[VinBaker6]

I've always wanted to get this off my chest, but Rick Carlisle is a Jim Carrey clone. Looks and sounds like him.

More like a bizarro twin, based on their polar opposite personalities

True enough

[Indeed]

Kleiza was no zone buster. Raptors had to call a timeout because they didn't know how to attack it. It was Raps 15-14. The idea of a stretch big or playing small ball is overrated. As long as the guards/wings can make open triples out of quick ball reversals and kick-outs from the mid post they should still be able to counter against it. Bigs that have a nose for going after any loose ball like Ed and Jonas is only a bonus because the zone defense is susceptible to allowing offensive rebounds meaning extra possessions.

Are you defending Bargnani is an important part of the offense?

[Undefeated]

Where did you even get the idea that Bargnani is an important part of the offense lol? I clearly said the idea of a stretch big is overrated against the zone.

[BorisDK1]

Where did you even get the idea that Bargnani is an important part of the offense lol? I clearly said the idea of a stretch big is overrated against the zone.

More to the point, why is any type of player viewed as important/necessary/valuable etc?

Teams use the talent they have - whatever that talent happens to be. You can be successful with any type of player, as long as they do what they do well.

[hillbilly hare]

Where did you even get the idea that Bargnani is an important part of the offense lol? I clearly said the idea of a stretch big is overrated against the zone.

The idea of a stretch big is just that: an idea. How many really successful teams have used it? One. The Magic. Who happened to have the most dominant center in the league in the last 10 years. The kind of guy who is very very rare. To suggest having Bargnani or anyone else in this role as a means to success is to refuse reality and if it's to be a part of our future we might as well pack things in right now.

"Winning culture"? It's to be hoped for. With the lack of talent we have on the team and the lack of D that we've played up until now this season, we've dug a big hole for ourselves and brought everything we were hoping for in the off-season into question, including Casey's coaching.

It is, as they say, just one game. I think we can lay the foundation for a winning culture, but for this year that's all we can do, while looking to the future. The problem is, we've been saying the same thing for the last couple years. Give the young guys a chance to play, see who has game and who doesn't, who is a part of our future and who is trade bait. We didn't do that with Bayless while we had the chance amidst 1.5 bad losing seasons. We haven't been doing it with Ed Davis. Or Ross, though that can be remedied as his rookie season progresses. Jonas has been given starter's minutes a bit too early, in my opinion, and I hope his longer term game doesn't suffer as a result. The point? In my opinion, the point is that we have to be realistic about this season, that we're going nowhere, but we have some young guys who COULD be players, or at least look as though they could, so give them playing time. Trade Andrea and Jose for the best return possible. Consider trading Lowry. A very hard idea to swallow, but if his trade value is high he might bring back a pick or two that we need to rebuild. If it all means that Colangelo has to be fired, in order to let the rebuild begin right now and the foundation of the winning culture, with NBA defense, get put into place, then so be it, he has to go.

[JV4MVP]

All we have to do is go on nice win streaks and we can be back in the playoff hunt. It would be prime if we went on 5 game win streak, lost 1, 3 game win streak, lost another 1, and then 6 game win streak just to get up to speed and get ourselves a nice spot in the playoffs. Oh, an then knock New York out in the first round.

Knicks fans would cry if we eliminate them again

How about worrying about finishing with a respectable record before even thinking about the playoffs in which we would get swept by NY.

[Ukulele]

Bargnani out, win, + 20!

We want also Calderon out!