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LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones are drunk on BC kool-aid.

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Post#31 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:16 am by nonc

Yosemite Dan wrote:That's why I love seeing Jones (who may have the most grating voice in all of sports) and Smith on PTS. Mccowan always talks down to them and calls them idiots and those 2 idiots think that Bobcat is joking but he is clearly not. Even he realizes that they are the biggest ass kissers around and doesn't need to be a basketball guy to realize these guys are licking MLSE's ass in particular because they would never find a job anywhere else if they got canned as broadcasters and at Sportsnet.

Bobcat always brings up that Bargs is useless and smirks when he hears these morons defending him.


LOL
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Post#32 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:23 am by LarSiN

I stopped following Smith on Twitter last year. He gets a bit of an attitude at times. What pushed it over the edge was when "Rise of the Planet of the Apes" came out and got good reviews. He saw it and hated it and kept going on about how everybody but him was wrong and that he should unfollow anyone who actually liked it. I finally saw it and really liked it (like most people). I mentioned it to him on twitter and pretty much got a "Well, you're wrong" response. I mean, you can not like a movie if you want, but to get all standoffish and stubborn in the face of 90% of people who DID like it is pretty childish.

Anyway, never been a huge fan. I also unfollowed Holly after one too many swoony tweets about various players. The last straw was when she was taking anyone to task who had issues with Lebron James, citing the fact that he was a father, so he must be a good guy. Sorry, at that time there were legit reasons to have issue with LBJ.

On the plus side there are other better Raps reporters to follow. No offense to anyone who loves Smith or Mackenzie
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Post#33 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:24 am by team edward

I'm convinced the only reason BC kept his job for this current extension is because he sold MLSE on his ability to deliver Nash. Based on what they did this offseason it's clear they would have done absolutely anything in this world to get him.

Now that it's clear there is no Nash, BC's success in the eyes of the owners will depend on the team's success relative to the expectations he set for the owners. No rational person could claim this team has so far been anything must a disaster, 4 wins notwithstanding.

in 7 years BC has changed every player on the roster (including Jose - remember he traded him). He had his hands tied on one draft pick, but otherwise all picks were at his disposal. He has had money to spend on free agents several times as well as the green light to close significant deals including JO. WHen he got the job Embry had already all but wiped the slate clean for him. He could have built a full rotation solely through the draft and free agency if he had wished to do so and had made competent decisions.

Anyone that suggests that Brian Colangelo is not responsible for the state of this franchise is delusional.
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Post#34 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:35 am by Inevitable

LarSiN wrote:
Anyway, never been a huge fan. I also unfollowed Holly after one too many swoony tweets about various players. The last straw was when she was taking anyone to task who had issues with Lebron James, citing the fact that he was a father, so he must be a good guy. Sorry, at that time there were legit reasons to have issue with LBJ.

On the plus side there are other better Raps reporters to follow. No offense to anyone who loves Smith or Mackenzie


I remember (some media-day I believe) when Holly was interviewing some players and took them to the side away from most of the media personnel and posters here were ragging on her for that behaviour :lol:
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Post#35 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 2:59 am by Volcano

zippy wrote:Please name someone with experience that you can guarantee will turn this team into a contender?

I'm glad its not up to you either, you seem emotionally unstable.


It's not supposed to be his job to look for candidates now is it? You're telling a customer at a supermarket that he's not equipped to source supplies and inventories because he's complaining about rotten fruit.

Double Helix wrote:Part of the reason BC is still around and part of the reason he still has fans is because many of the things he attempts do sound good in theory. He just hasn't seen many if those ideas pan out consistently.


WRONG.

Most of his ideas were terrible in theory. The reason you agree with him is because your sense of logic is skewed like his. That's why both of you had to concede to the downfall of Bargs even though everyone else saw it coming a mile away.

The GM should not be allowed to have a SINGLE decision that's horrible in theory. This is his job. If he does something that's obviously mindnumbingly stupid to everyone involved in the game, then he doesn't deserve to keep his job.
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Post#36 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:45 am by SharoneWright

Phenomenologist wrote:It's pretty simple. If BC gets extended or remains on as president, I simply won't follow this team anymore. Enuf is **** enuf.


I don't cheer for a General Manager.
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Post#37 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 3:58 am by Scase

Double Helix wrote:Part of the reason BC is still around and part of the reason he still has fans is because many of the things he attempts do sound good in theory. He just hasn't seen many if those ideas pan out consistently.

A few losses in previous drafts and our team is drastically different. Winning the first in any but the Bargs draft and everything is different.

Without a doubt, the results haven't been there and ultimately that's all that matters but BC rarely frustrates in the moment of any one decision. It's only after it's turned sour that it often seems so naive in hindsight. Maybe that's because he's an expert salesman. Maybe that's because many relate to his line of thinking in theory and feel bad about his lack of luck but he's certainly likeable.

I know he should probably lose his job after this and several other disappointing seasons but deep down I'd love to see him somehow save his job with a Hail Mary play that workers short term and long. I like BC. I can often see his logic. I'm equally disappointed as any at how early things have worked out. It's really as simple ad that for me.

Think about this one thing.

How bad do you really have to be, to not have one successful outing over the course of 7 years. We all know the reason we won the division title is directly related to it being called the titanic division that year. It was hard NOT to win it.

SharoneWright wrote:
Phenomenologist wrote:It's pretty simple. If BC gets extended or remains on as president, I simply won't follow this team anymore. Enuf is **** enuf.


I don't cheer for a General Manager.


No you cheer for a horrible team that will stay horrible BECAUSE of said GM.
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Post#38 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:05 am by NYPDinformant

this is what happens when the everything is wrapped up into one ownership group

nobody wants to bite the hand that feeds them
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Post#39 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 5:58 am by Waylon Mercy

lol
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Post#40 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:07 am by Phenomenologist

^^Wow awesomely awesome. I love that Val has jungle fever. LOL
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Post#41 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 6:34 am by Tha Cynic

Double Helix wrote:Part of the reason BC is still around and part of the reason he still has fans is because many of the things he attempts do sound good in theory. He just hasn't seen many if those ideas pan out consistently.

A few losses in previous drafts and our team is drastically different. Winning the first in any but the Bargs draft and everything is different.

Without a doubt, the results haven't been there and ultimately that's all that matters but BC rarely frustrates in the moment of any one decision. It's only after it's turned sour that it often seems so naive in hindsight. Maybe that's because he's an expert salesman. Maybe that's because many relate to his line of thinking in theory and feel bad about his lack of luck but he's certainly likeable.

I know he should probably lose his job after this and several other disappointing seasons but deep down I'd love to see him somehow save his job with a Hail Mary play that workers short term and long. I like BC. I can often see his logic. I'm equally disappointed as any at how early things have worked out. It's really as simple ad that for me.


I completely disagree. Most of what he does actually makes no sense. It makes sense if you believe in his comparisons where he absolutely overrates the players he signs or trades for, and compares them to star players or key players on other teams. Bargnani as Dirk? Kapono as their Stojakovic, Landry Fields as their freakin' Shane Battier? The list goes on and on. To make things worse, he doesn't understand the most important aspects of a successful basketball team. If he did, he wouldn't sign the type of players he does. If fact, his biggest problem is his ability to understand how to build a basketball team. He may be a business genius or whatever, but as a GM he is terrible.
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Post#42 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:30 am by Harry Palmer

Double Helix wrote:Part of the reason BC is still around and part of the reason he still has fans is because many of the things he attempts do sound good in theory.


No, no they really don't. not if you're thinking critically while you listen.

And this isn't just hindsight, as you know.
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Post#43 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 7:34 am by UcanUwill

zippy wrote:Bryan Colangelo is by no shot an amazing General Manager, but he has some experience which in my opinion is better than no experience. What the majority of you are saying is you're willing to gamble and take a shot hiring a no name guy as our GM hoping it works out like Masai???


Cant believe this guy... You cant get worse, when you have absolute worst already. What experience BC has exactly? To sign borderline NBA talents for outrageous prices?
This is pathetic, how in a world one person can do so poorly and still keep his job and have supporters? I actually believe thtn Colangelo's talent evaluation is worse than average RealGM poster. First of all, is his Bargnani delusion, Sir Richard Dawkins should write a book about that... No matter how poorly he builds this team, how bad it looks on paper to begin with, he thinks this team is a play-off contender. What a joke. When you look back at Toronto squads, you will be surprised how many relatively young players aren't even in the NBA anymore.
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Post#44 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 8:32 am by J-Roc

Volcano wrote:
zippy wrote:Please name someone with experience that you can guarantee will turn this team into a contender?

I'm glad its not up to you either, you seem emotionally unstable.


It's not supposed to be his job to look for candidates now is it? You're telling a customer at a supermarket that he's not equipped to source supplies and inventories because he's complaining about rotten fruit.

Double Helix wrote:Part of the reason BC is still around and part of the reason he still has fans is because many of the things he attempts do sound good in theory. He just hasn't seen many if those ideas pan out consistently.


WRONG.

Most of his ideas were terrible in theory. The reason you agree with him is because your sense of logic is skewed like his. That's why both of you had to concede to the downfall of Bargs even though everyone else saw it coming a mile away.


The GM should not be allowed to have a SINGLE decision that's horrible in theory. This is his job. If he does something that's obviously mindnumbingly stupid to everyone involved in the game, then he doesn't deserve to keep his job.


Thank you. Was about to post the same thing. DH, seriously, guys like you shouldn't be confusing kids here by posting that BC's moves make sense.
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Post#45 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:48 am by KiySi

Unfortunately that's what journalism is these days. You have to be a puppet, and be politically correct on your route to kissing everyone's ass even if you disagree with it.

If you want to be a journalist who speaks his mind, and spews truth - you better just be doing it for a hobby because odds are you won't get a job that way.
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Post#46 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 9:55 am by BorisDK1

Volcano wrote:WRONG.

Most of his ideas were terrible in theory. The reason you agree with him is because your sense of logic is skewed like his. That's why both of you had to concede to the downfall of Bargs even though everyone else saw it coming a mile away.

That's a pretty harsh comment towards a poster who's got a pretty good understanding of the game, and I'm going to challenge you on that.

This team built around Bargnani was never bad in theory; it was bad in practice simply because Bargnani has massively underperformed. If he were effective at the things he was supposed to be effective at, we would not be having this conversation. He's an agile big man with great balance and good shooting form and ballhandling skills who, for reason(s) known only to God Himself, cannot shoot accurately from the floor, rebound offensively against much smaller players, outrun anybody in transition, get to the line or - stunningly - pass the damned ball to save his life.

There is no way that in a theoretical world that if you took the structure of a player like Bargnani that you would end up with a model of a player who can't shoot reliably or pass the ball accurately. To say that result is counter-intuitive is a massive understatement.

Has it been obvious from his third year that he wasn't going to pan out the way Colangelo had hoped? Yes, quite frankly, it has. Has the team invested more hope for a longer time in him than they should have? Yes. But that's not a theoretical failure; it's a pragmatic one. Had Bargnani performed at the level he should have, being an effective perimeter shooter and passer who forces opposing bigs to expend a lot of energy to sprint back in transition instead of rebounding offensively or forcing them to get caught on mismatches with smaller players on the perimeter, then Bargnani looks just dandy. It's just that he hasn't performed up to the level he could have. And, frankly, for that to have worked well he needed some help on the wing, and the type of wing player Bargnani needed as a compliment is so rare that you really can't base your hopes on landing one - thinking of a Shawn Marion in his prime, obviously.
The GM should not be allowed to have a SINGLE decision that's horrible in theory. This is his job. If he does something that's obviously mindnumbingly stupid to everyone involved in the game, then he doesn't deserve to keep his job.

I'm curious to what exactly is the theoretical failure, here.

Miami is now running a 5-out/0-in offense, which usually you see coaches at underpopulated high schools with no football programs use. Is that a failure? Obviously not; nobody can guard it.

Could the Raptors have made that work? If Bargnani were as good as he could have been, absolutely. Had other pieces worked out, sure. But those aren't theoretical problems, really; they're just pragmatic concerns.

Colangelo should still be fired, because obviously he cannot circumnavigate the mundane matters of NBA personnel management effectively. But there was nothing wrong with the theory of what he's done; he just hasn't assembled the right players to make it happen.
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Post#47 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:09 am by J-Roc

The theory of what BC did was draft a 7ft tall SF and then try to turn him into a C because we already had a PF. Oh and nevermind defence because the game was evolving.

Even in theory, this experiment was never going to work.
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Post#48 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:11 am by zippy

UcanUwill wrote:Cant believe this guy... You cant get worse, when you have absolute worst already. What experience BC has exactly? To sign borderline NBA talents for outrageous prices?



Why are you all reacting like I'm saying BC is the best thing to happen to this team? LOL Get off this Fire BC high and think about things logically. Babcock was still worse than BC pulling off the worst trade probably in NBA history.

UcanUwill wrote:This is pathetic, how in a world one person can do so poorly and still keep his job and have supporters? I actually believe thtn Colangelo's talent evaluation is worse than average RealGM poster. First of all, is his Bargnani delusion, Sir Richard Dawkins should write a book about that...


BC Has made ALOT of mistakes, but I don't know of ANY GM's that haven't, he's corrected some of his mistakes (ala Turk for Barbosa, Kapono for a bag of chips)... However think about how long Isaiah Thomas was in NYC screwing that franchise over and over again. Trust me things COULD be worse.

As for Bargs, best guy out of that draft nobody knew or expected at the time that Gay would explode into what he is today. Roy was finished in his first year, and Aldridge is a rollorcoaster. The draft is a gamble regardless of how good your scouting is.. College ball, Euroleague and NBA ball are 3 very different games.

UcanUwill wrote:No matter how poorly he builds this team, how bad it looks on paper to begin with, he thinks this team is a play-off contender. What a joke. When you look back at Toronto squads, you will be surprised how many relatively young players aren't even in the NBA anymore


I'm not defending BC by any means, however I'm logically thinking about things rather than emotionally making oppinions!
Every GM should be held responsible for not showing any form of success in his entire tenure. But again, until something like DR. J or Phil Jackson become readily availalbe to take over as our GM I wouldn't be looking to make any changes just as of yet.
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Post#49 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:36 am by UcanUwill

BC corrections are just that. I respect him for that, but he undid nothing. He crapped all over the place, than cleaned some of his mess to make a room for another crap. He learn nothing and is getting worse. BC is up there among worst of all time. Fact he isn't worst is no argument. You cant point out worst GMs ever and tell me - see, it can get worse... Its stupid man :lol: its like woman taking back a violent, criminal, cheating husband, because hey, it could be worse. I know its a terrible comparison, but here you go...
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Post#50 Re: LOL, Raps post game, Smith & Jones ar
Sat Dec 15, 2012 10:42 am by BorisDK1

J-Roc wrote:The theory of what BC did was draft a 7ft tall SF and then try to turn him into a C because we already had a PF. Oh and nevermind defence because the game was evolving.

Even in theory, this experiment was never going to work.

The problem still wasn't the theory; it was the pragmatic failure of Bargnani to be good at what he was supposed to be good at. Whether you want to call him a SF or a PF or a C, his weaknesses only shift slightly. He can't shoot accurately, he can't pass, he's turnover-prone and he doesn't get to the line enough. That's the heart of the issue (offensively, anyway). If he were keeping an ORat of 113 or so nobody would really complain a whole lot - but at 103, he's a huge problem.

The game has evolved, whether you want it to or not. The way the game is shifting to go to far more spread sets to force defenses to do what they don't do really well - namely, guarding the dribble-drive in open space and force guards to defend guards as screeners (which they suck at).

Miami is having NO problem playing without a center. Their defense will eventually come back around, I don't doubt that. Well, how could that be?!? How dare they?!? What theoretical model are they following?!? The one that best suits their talent, that's what. And they're enjoying oodles of success while doing so.

Most people ditched the "there's only one way to play the game" idea years ago. John Calipari ditched his traditional motion/passing game offense to throw out an offense designed by some junior college coach nobody had ever heard of after having had a cup of coffee with him, and now he can recruit whatever crème de la crème guard he wants because those guards are BEGGING to play for him and have the freedom of his Dribble Drive Motion. Who ever tells bigs to stay the hell out of the way and NEVER get caught screening? Calipari did, and with only slight thanks to some shady recruiting practices has a national championship to his credit - theory be damned. He changed the theory.
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