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2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread Part II

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Post#481 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:29 am by BCfortheWin

Los Manos wrote:So how about these two simple trades which I think make sense for each team, first with Sacramento:

Terrence Ross + Andrea Bargnani for Tyreke Evans + Jason Thompson

I don't want to lose Ross but this deal makes a lot of sense for Sac. They don't have to overpay for Evans and in return get a big man to stretch the floor next to Cousins which they currently don't have and with the move to Seattle they get a home state kid full of upside. Someone to market to the new fans and generate excitement with his style of play. I did originally have Salmons in instead of Thompson but if you could squeeze him out of Sac then we have a solid rotation of bigs moving forward.

and now to Memphis:

Calderon + DeRozan for Rudy Gay + Tony Wroten

Memphis get below the luxury tax and gain a starting two guard along with short-term PG help to reinforce their backcourt. This gets Memphis exactly what they need, tax relief and immediate help along with upside in DeRozan.

Both these deals have a whole lot to like for all teams involved and aren't over complicated. I want to move forward with our front court rotation of JV, Ed & Amir with Lowry at the point. The relationship that exists already between Lowry & Gay would make me a whole lot calmer on the idea of Lowry re-signing here. I also think the roster a good balance of experienced heads and solid leadership that could really be the jumping off point for Tyreke in his career.

Lowry / Lucas / Wroten
Evans / Anderson
Gay / Fields / Kleiza
Davis / Johnson
Valanciunas / Thompson / Gray

I know there is nothing new in the idea of going after Evans or Gay but let me know you thoughts on the deals from all sides and how the raptors line-up after the deals.



Very well thought out. I like the ideas, if only it could come true.
Quick, email BC and let him in on them.
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Post#482 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:01 am by StopitLeo

Does anyone think Lowry will be able to run a proper pick and roll next year? Because so far this year he has been terrible. I am inclined to hold onto him because his cost/value is better than anyone else we could trade for or sign, but for the same reason he has good trade value.

Lowry and Jose, ironically, have the best trade value on the team IMO. They should be the keys to any deal for Bargnani or DeRozan (if we can unload that contract, I'll take Ross at 1/5th the price thanks).

I like the proposed Memphis trade above. For the Sac trade though I'd rather move Lowry than Ross. Not sure that they want to part with Thompson given what Robinson has shown. Nevertheless, how about:

Bargnani + Lowry = Evans + Thompson + Brooks
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Post#483 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:55 am by torsport

Early this season I was with most posters at tweaking the roster with better than average talent at the positions we have: ie Milsap, Lowry, Ilyasova, Evans, etc.

There was another poster that has convinced me otherwise. You do whatever you can to land an allstar talent and figure out the rest later. Cuban had mentioned this as his philosophy as well,and looking at Houston I think it is the best way to go. I mean is Lin, Asik, Patterson, Morris or Parsons really anything better than above average role players?

So if someone like Harden is available you pay the asking price and build around that talent.

Not sure who is available that fits that description: Love, Cousins and anyone is available in a package to get them: JV, Ross, Lowry, it doesn't matter. Championships are never won without all stars and we have none.
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Post#484 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:55 am by ash_k

A trade cannot happen soon enough.

A Frontline of Acy, Amir, Ed and JV moving forward looks very solid and promising
Keep Ross.

The rest can be traded
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Post#485 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:02 am by Kenyon009

I would trade everyone other than JV and clean out the front office load up on picks and draft well. Develop home grown talent and maybe in3 years we can sniff a championship contender and win one in five. Trading for Lowry set us back a year and the bad tank job by Casey. Trade assets for picks and stock up on lotto picks. Then you tank as hard as you can hoping for one of Julius Randle, Wiggins, or Parker. If you're the worst team in the league that's a 75% chance. Then you can tank the following year while developing JV and hopefully Wiggins. Trade the remaining picks for a disgruntled star like Russell Westbrook (A guy who might get tired of playing with Durant. Then sign players in the free agency to fill in the gaps and have decent role players.

JV
???
Wiggins
???
Westbrook
changes wrote:
hokageinfamus wrote:define success :lol:

Opposite of bryan colangelo.
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Post#486 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:07 am by StopitLeo

torsport wrote:Early this season I was with most posters at tweaking the roster with better than average talent at the positions we have: ie Milsap, Lowry, Ilyasova, Evans, etc.

There was another poster that has convinced me otherwise. You do whatever you can to land an allstar talent and figure out the rest later. Cuban had mentioned this as his philosophy as well,and looking at Houston I think it is the best way to go. I mean is Lin, Asik, Patterson, Morris or Parsons really anything better than above average role players?

So if someone like Harden is available you pay the asking price and build around that talent.

Not sure who is available that fits that description: Love, Cousins and anyone is available in a package to get them: JV, Ross, Lowry, it doesn't matter. Championships are never won without all stars and we have none.


You need to have an elite player to be a championship contender, but those kinds of players are always found through the draft. Harden was an amazing trade acquisition for Houston but I don't think he is in that elite level like LeBron and Durant. If you put enough pieces around him then Houston will be a playoff team, but I don't think they have that top tier guy to be a real contender (granted, only like 4-6 teams in the league do).

Jonas is our best shot at a franchise changing player right now. He has the potential and we need to give him at least 2 seasons before we can determine whether he will achieve that level. Love or Cousins are very good but they aren't that top tier guy either. With Love or Cousins we would still need someone better to have a real contender....and you aren't going to draft one since they will both make us somewhat better. They would put us back in the same situation as we were with Bosh. Very good player, even all-star, but not good enough to lead a contender.

Some would probably be satisfied with a perennial 6-8 seed, but we are bad enough to be shooting for something much higher. The best trades we can make right now are ones that get us potentially high lottery draft picks from teams who think they have a team with potential that would be helped by someone like Andrea, DeMar, Lowry, etc...
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Post#487 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:19 am by Kenyon009

I would keep Ross for this year displaying his potential and then trade him to a cheap team that's heading for a downfall for a lotto pick. I would do the same for Lowry, DeRozan, Davis, Amir, and maybe even Bargnani. I would hope that could collect 4 additional picks and you could take back a worse contract as well because we will tank for the following two years and have plenty of time to increase trade value.
changes wrote:
hokageinfamus wrote:define success :lol:

Opposite of bryan colangelo.
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Post#488 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:48 am by torsport

Tanger wrote:
torsport wrote:Early this season I was with most posters at tweaking the roster with better than average talent at the positions we have: ie Milsap, Lowry, Ilyasova, Evans, etc.

There was another poster that has convinced me otherwise. You do whatever you can to land an allstar talent and figure out the rest later. Cuban had mentioned this as his philosophy as well,and looking at Houston I think it is the best way to go. I mean is Lin, Asik, Patterson, Morris or Parsons really anything better than above average role players?

So if someone like Harden is available you pay the asking price and build around that talent.

Not sure who is available that fits that description: Love, Cousins and anyone is available in a package to get them: JV, Ross, Lowry, it doesn't matter. Championships are never won without all stars and we have none.


You need to have an elite player to be a championship contender, but those kinds of players are always found through the draft. Harden was an amazing trade acquisition for Houston but I don't think he is in that elite level like LeBron and Durant. If you put enough pieces around him then Houston will be a playoff team, but I don't think they have that top tier guy to be a real contender (granted, only like 4-6 teams in the league do).

Jonas is our best shot at a franchise changing player right now. He has the potential and we need to give him at least 2 seasons before we can determine whether he will achieve that level. Love or Cousins are very good but they aren't that top tier guy either. With Love or Cousins we would still need someone better to have a real contender....and you aren't going to draft one since they will both make us somewhat better. They would put us back in the same situation as we were with Bosh. Very good player, even all-star, but not good enough to lead a contender.

Some would probably be satisfied with a perennial 6-8 seed, but we are bad enough to be shooting for something much higher. The best trades we can make right now are ones that get us potentially high lottery draft picks from teams who think they have a team with potential that would be helped by someone like Andrea, DeMar, Lowry, etc...


I couldn't disagree more. Players like Lebron and Durant are not always found in the draft. If you mean you usually can only acquire them in the draft because once teams have them they aren't given up then I agree, unless there are some mitigating circumstances like Harden, Dwight, Deron Williams etc.

I also don't think one can 'tank' for a player. It didn't work for Boston with Duncan, Memphis with Lebron, etc. You can't tank for a 1 spot in a lottery system. You also can never tell who is going to be what in the L with some exceptions. Oden didn't turn out, Mayo didn't turn out, etc.

Ideally you acquire known commodities with the assets you have.

I agree that JV seems to be our best shot and Ross has been more promising in a short stint than anyone else currently on the roster, but from what I've seen I'm not convinced we have a star or all star in either of them. They do look like above average NBA players.

So I'm suggesting something more drastic like JV and Calderon trade was suggested for Harden. In hindsight that would have been a great move.

Maybe a three team deal with Sac and Mem where Mem get Calderon, Ed and Evans, Sacto gets JV, Ross, Bayless and Mem pick and we get Cousins and Gay. I know it's not popular to trade the young players we like. But if things are going to change for the Raps they're going to have to part with them otherwise be mired in mediocrity.

We won't get the saviour for Demar, Fields or Bargs so people need to stop with that hope.

If we're not willing to part with JV or Ross to get to the next level then we have to hope that those players will develop into all stars. There's no other hope on this Roster otherwise. Maybe Lowry and Ed Davis but there is huge improvement required from Lowry in consistency and Ed needs to add more tools and consistency too.
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Post#489 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:03 pm by why22

Los Manos wrote:So how about these two simple trades which I think make sense for each team, first with Sacramento:

Terrence Ross + Andrea Bargnani for Tyreke Evans + Jason Thompson

I don't want to lose Ross but this deal makes a lot of sense for Sac. They don't have to overpay for Evans and in return get a big man to stretch the floor next to Cousins which they currently don't have and with the move to Seattle they get a home state kid full of upside. Someone to market to the new fans and generate excitement with his style of play. I did originally have Salmons in instead of Thompson but if you could squeeze him out of Sac then we have a solid rotation of bigs moving forward.

and now to Memphis:

Calderon + DeRozan for Rudy Gay + Tony Wroten

Memphis get below the luxury tax and gain a starting two guard along with short-term PG help to reinforce their backcourt. This gets Memphis exactly what they need, tax relief and immediate help along with upside in DeRozan.

Both these deals have a whole lot to like for all teams involved and aren't over complicated. I want to move forward with our front court rotation of JV, Ed & Amir with Lowry at the point. The relationship that exists already between Lowry & Gay would make me a whole lot calmer on the idea of Lowry re-signing here. I also think the roster a good balance of experienced heads and solid leadership that could really be the jumping off point for Tyreke in his career.

Lowry / Lucas / Wroten
Evans / Anderson
Gay / Fields / Kleiza
Davis / Johnson
Valanciunas / Thompson / Gray

I know there is nothing new in the idea of going after Evans or Gay but let me know you thoughts on the deals from all sides and how the raptors line-up after the deals.



Its Beautiful! but i would move one of Johnson or Thompson (Preferably Thompson because of my Amir man crush) for a backup wing or point guard. Otherwise i think this team can make some noise in the east playoffs
Basketball_Jones wrote:BC holding Casey accountable would go like this:

BC: so I see you played Andrea quite a bit there when he was struggling
Casey: yeah I know, we needed spacing
BC: play him more (walks away)
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Post#490 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:16 pm by StopitLeo

torsport wrote:
I couldn't disagree more. Players like Lebron and Durant are not always found in the draft. If you mean you usually can only acquire them in the draft because once teams have them they aren't given up then I agree, unless there are some mitigating circumstances like Harden, Dwight, Deron Williams etc.


That's what I mean - you can basically only acquire those kind of talents in the draft. You do get cases like Dwight, but not often. And LeBron going to Miami is a free agency move that never happens.

torsport wrote:I also don't think one can 'tank' for a player. It didn't work for Boston with Duncan, Memphis with Lebron, etc. You can't tank for a 1 spot in a lottery system. You also can never tell who is going to be what in the L with some exceptions. Oden didn't turn out, Mayo didn't turn out, etc.


I agree. You basically have to get very lucky. You have to luck into a top lottery pick and even then you have to get lucky that your pick works out. Outside of the #1 pick or top 2 when there isn't a clear #1, your chances of getting a franchise player aren't very good. Over the last 20 years I think that only about 50% of the time does the #1 pick or #2 turn into that superstar guy. Of course, there are times that someone taken lower turns out great (Wade, Chris Paul, Kobe back in the day).

torsport wrote:Ideally you acquire known commodities with the assets you have.

I agree that JV seems to be our best shot and Ross has been more promising in a short stint than anyone else currently on the roster, but from what I've seen I'm not convinced we have a star or all star in either of them. They do look like above average NBA players.



Yeah, I think you use your assets to put yourself in the position to find a star. It isn't necessarily a one move deal. You need to stockpile picks, players you can trade later, etc...

torsport wrote:So I'm suggesting something more drastic like JV and Calderon trade was suggested for Harden. In hindsight that would have been a great move.

If we're not willing to part with JV or Ross to get to the next level then we have to hope that those players will develop into all stars. There's no other hope on this Roster otherwise. Maybe Lowry and Ed Davis but there is huge improvement required from Lowry in consistency and Ed needs to add more tools and consistency too.


I completely agree with you. JV and Ross (to a lesser degree) are the guys we are pinning our future on. The moment we realize either of them isn't going to get to that top echelon of players, we need to move them because they will still have good value. If there is someone like Harden out there, then we should definitely consider moving them. I think the rest of the roster is good enough that Harden would have had a huge impact. A SG who can actually dribble and create his own shot? Been dreaming of one for years.

Unfortunately, the only guy out there available seems to be Rudy Gay. I don't think he is as good as Harden so I'm not sure he can take the team far enough to warrant giving up on JV.

I don't know if he is available, but the guy I would go after is Rondo. I think the aging Celtics would be interested in some of our youth because they are going to have to rebuild with Pierce and KG on the decline.
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Post#491 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:27 pm by Mehar

If Colangelo had any brains, he would have drafted Drummond, and if we had Drummond, we could always have traded Jonas for a solid return. However, that is over and done with. Basically, there should be no untouchables on this team. Everyone should be available to get back as many draft picks/expiring contracts as possible for the next couple of years. Forget about getting Rudy Gay for a playoff run. This team will not make the playoffs this year or next. Trade guys like

Calderon, Bargnani, Lowry, etc. to get back as many draft picks as possible, fire Colangelo and REBUILD PROPERLY with an eye on the 2014 draft. Here is a suggestion- trade Bargnani to Orlando for Hedo's expiring contract and two of their lottery protected first round picks they got in the Howard Deal. Orlando has always liked Bargnani, and he could be a good PF for them next to Nikola Vucevic. Trade is good for both sides. Afterwards, immediately waive Hedo so he never even steps foot into this city.
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Post#492 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:27 pm by Marvin Martian

Kenyon009 wrote:I would trade everyone other than JV and clean out the front office load up on picks and draft well. Develop home grown talent and maybe in3 years we can sniff a championship contender and win one in five. Trading for Lowry set us back a year and the bad tank job by Casey. Trade assets for picks and stock up on lotto picks. Then you tank as hard as you can hoping for one of Julius Randle, Wiggins, or Parker. If you're the worst team in the league that's a 75% chance. Then you can tank the following year while developing JV and hopefully Wiggins. Trade the remaining picks for a disgruntled star like Russell Westbrook (A guy who might get tired of playing with Durant. Then sign players in the free agency to fill in the gaps and have decent role players.

JV
???
Wiggins
???
Westbrook


Even if you could tank, the chances are extremely high that Wiggins/Parker/Randle leaves TOR before winning anything. Compounding that situation with an awful management and coaching, and that possibility might as well be 100%. People need to understand that one player cannot lead a franchise to the promised land by himself. Lebron couldn't do it. Melo couldn't do it. T-mac couldn't do it. Shaq couldn't do it. Bosh couldn't do it and Carter couldn't do it. What makes you think Wiggins/Parker/Randle can?
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Post#493 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 1:31 pm by why22

To Brooklyn:
Andrea Bargnani
Aaron Gray


to Toronto:
Kris Humphries



we shave a year off Andreas deal and dump Gray and muse in the irony of trading yet another one of our famous draft busts for Mr. Humphries


The Nets get a great scoring big as Hump is redundant with Reggie Evans.




trade 2:

to atlanta:
Jose Calderon


To Toronto:
Devin harris
Atl 1st
Basketball_Jones wrote:BC holding Casey accountable would go like this:

BC: so I see you played Andrea quite a bit there when he was struggling
Casey: yeah I know, we needed spacing
BC: play him more (walks away)
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Post#494 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:07 pm by youngthegiant

Terrence Ross and Derozan for Iggy?
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Post#495 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:13 pm by TheFreshPrince

youngthegiant wrote:Terrence Ross and Derozan for Iggy?


:lol: I almost spit my honey nut cheerios out
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Post#496 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:41 pm by Mr.Raptorsingh

Bargnani (or if they want an expiring, Calderon), Ed Davis, and Terrence Ross to Minnesota for Kevin Love & JJ Barea

Raptors:

Lowry/Barea
DeRozan/Anderson
D. Wright (signed as FA)/Fields
Love/Johnson (Bargnani amnestied if he's not apart of the deal)
Valanciunas/Johnson

Minnesota:

Rubio/Ridnour
Ross/Shved
Kirilenko/Williams
Bargnani (?)/Davis
Pekovic (re-signed to a contract extension)/Cunningham

Minnesota has a bit of a conundrum on their hands, because Pekovic is a RFA this upcoming summer (I believe), and will likely get paid a good chunk of money from somebody. Kevin Love has alienated the fanbase to the point where I believe trading him wouldn't turn fans away, particularly with Rubio there. Now, I'm not sure if Minnesota would have interest in Bargnani, but the thought of Bargnani being coached by Adelman could be pretty intriguing to Kahn and co. If not, they could always opt for Calderon & his expiring contract to be part of the deal instead. I'm pretty certain, however, it would cost us both Ed Davis and Terrence Ross.

For us, I think Love would be pretty interesting with Valanciunas. But, Colangelo would likely have to make some additional moves to try to build a contender while Love is here, and frankly, to keep him from bitching about being in Toronto (shouldn't have much of a problem with the weather though, given that he's played in Minnesota).
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Post#497 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:15 pm by lobosloboslobos

Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:Bargnani (or if they want an expiring, Calderon), Ed Davis, and Terrence Ross to Minnesota for Kevin Love & JJ Barea

Raptors:

Lowry/Barea
DeRozan/Anderson
D. Wright (signed as FA)/Fields
Love/Johnson (Bargnani amnestied if he's not apart of the deal)
Valanciunas/Johnson

Minnesota:

Rubio/Ridnour
Ross/Shved
Kirilenko/Williams
Bargnani (?)/Davis
Pekovic (re-signed to a contract extension)/Cunningham

Minnesota has a bit of a conundrum on their hands, because Pekovic is a RFA this upcoming summer (I believe), and will likely get paid a good chunk of money from somebody. Kevin Love has alienated the fanbase to the point where I believe trading him wouldn't turn fans away, particularly with Rubio there. Now, I'm not sure if Minnesota would have interest in Bargnani, but the thought of Bargnani being coached by Adelman could be pretty intriguing to Kahn and co. If not, they could always opt for Calderon & his expiring contract to be part of the deal instead. I'm pretty certain, however, it would cost us both Ed Davis and Terrence Ross.

For us, I think Love would be pretty interesting with Valanciunas. But, Colangelo would likely have to make some additional moves to try to build a contender while Love is here, and frankly, to keep him from bitching about being in Toronto (shouldn't have much of a problem with the weather though, given that he's played in Minnesota).


^ sorry but that is a horrible deal. Kevin Love has proven seriously injury prone, barea is not much better than lucas, and we give up bargs/jose + TWO very promising young ballers who both look like legit NBA starters with huge upside? Are you crazy?
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Post#498 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:16 pm by TheGoodDoctor

lobosloboslobos wrote:
Mr.Raptorsingh wrote:Bargnani (or if they want an expiring, Calderon), Ed Davis, and Terrence Ross to Minnesota for Kevin Love & JJ Barea

Raptors:

Lowry/Barea
DeRozan/Anderson
D. Wright (signed as FA)/Fields
Love/Johnson (Bargnani amnestied if he's not apart of the deal)
Valanciunas/Johnson

Minnesota:

Rubio/Ridnour
Ross/Shved
Kirilenko/Williams
Bargnani (?)/Davis
Pekovic (re-signed to a contract extension)/Cunningham

Minnesota has a bit of a conundrum on their hands, because Pekovic is a RFA this upcoming summer (I believe), and will likely get paid a good chunk of money from somebody. Kevin Love has alienated the fanbase to the point where I believe trading him wouldn't turn fans away, particularly with Rubio there. Now, I'm not sure if Minnesota would have interest in Bargnani, but the thought of Bargnani being coached by Adelman could be pretty intriguing to Kahn and co. If not, they could always opt for Calderon & his expiring contract to be part of the deal instead. I'm pretty certain, however, it would cost us both Ed Davis and Terrence Ross.

For us, I think Love would be pretty interesting with Valanciunas. But, Colangelo would likely have to make some additional moves to try to build a contender while Love is here, and frankly, to keep him from bitching about being in Toronto (shouldn't have much of a problem with the weather though, given that he's played in Minnesota).


^ sorry but that is a horrible deal. Kevin Love has proven seriously injury prone, barea is not much better than lucas, and we give up bargs/jose + TWO very promising young ballers who both look like legit NBA starters with huge upside? Are you crazy?


^and I hope you're joking because MIN would laugh at a deal where they get Bargnani and we get Kevin Love....Davis and Ross have "huge" upside?!? lol God here's our Raptor board overrating their own talent as usual or you must be crazy.
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Post#499 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:53 pm by Norma Wick

Raptors acquire Royce White, Carlos Delfino

Rockets acquire Andrea Bargnani


Houston is desperate for a star PF, and the Raptors happen to have a former #1 pick PF they can spare. Houston is also are having trouble with Royce White not wanting to play in the D-League, and the Raptors happen to need a SF.

Not only that, but their GM is a math nerd, and I'm sure there some way to make Andrea look really good using math. As Andrea himself once proclaimed, ā€œI do things that are more complicated than rebounds and defenceā€. I think he was referring to the types of things that would show up in advanced metrics.
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Post#500 Re: 2012-13 Toronto Raptors Trade Idea Thread
Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:11 pm by nonameguy

I'm reading Charlotte desperate for rebounding, looking to make a uturn, blah blah blah.


I've always been a fan of Ed Davis and hate how Raptors have underused him -- which makes me almost guarentee he's not interested in resigning with us.... so how about dropping him on Charlotte as part of an MKG trade?

I don't mind if Derozan has to be included..


Any way to make a trade like this work? Am I outta line with this thinking? MKG would be great here..
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