ImageImageImageImageImage

MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P. 32)

Moderators: HiJiNX, niQ, Morris_Shatford, DG88, Reeko, lebron stopper, 7 Footer, Duffman100

How do you feel about the Raptors pursuing Rudy Gay?

Yes! Do it. He'd be our best wing by a mile.
121
47%
No way! He's overpaid, overrated.
41
16%
Meh. Only if he comes very cheap.
97
37%
 
Total votes: 259

User avatar
hillbilly hare
Veteran
Posts: 2,551
And1: 219
Joined: Jan 29, 2011

Re: MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P. 

Post#681 » by hillbilly hare » Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:09 am

Dr Positivity wrote:I think people treat "full rebuilding" and being an ATL/IND/etc. perennial playoff team, as much more mutually exclusive paths than they are

A lot of the really long playoff droughts the last few decades like WAS, GSW, ATL, etc. happened because the team's plan was to make the 7th/8th seed. For example Atlanta got screwed up in the 2000s because they traded away a bunch of draft picks to team up Shareef, Terry, and Glenn Robinson to try and make the playoffs. Washington and GSW also dabbled in a lot of trading draft picks and overpaying players in hasty win now moves

What it really comes down to is that the bad franchises always make the same two moves, regardless of whether they're tanking or winning now. They trade away their 1st round picks and they overpay players. The good franchises do the opposite, they trade for extra 1st round draft picks and they hunt for bargains and salary cap flexibility. In all the major sports this is pretty much true. The worst franchises build around overpaid non difference makers instead of hording assets and young players.

Now look at BC: We've traded away a 1st round pick in FOUR different deals since he got here (+ the Charlie deal was made with the same mentality as if dealing a 1st for TJ), aside from the Bosh charity from MIA haven't done jack sh*t to try and get extra ones, and obviously we've overpaid middling players at every chance we get. BC even has the combo years, such as a year where he traded away a 1st for an overpaid veteran (JO), then traded another 1st so he could overpay another player in the summer (one of Hedo, Odom, Marion). He has another year where he traded away a 1st and then throw out 16 million+ a season to two mediocre wings (Derozan and Fields)


The Indiana and Atlanta examples are a bit misleading, though. They have been consistent playoff teams, but in different ways and with different potential.

Atlanta had some bad luck with Horford getting hurt while Joe Johnson was in his prime, so they never maximized their production and results from 3 All-star level guys. Let me repeat: 3 All-star level guys. Exactly 3 more than the Raptors have and have had for some time.

Their new GM also showed how a mid-level team (first or second round playoff team) could remain competitive while setting the team up for the future, when he traded Joe Johnson, just as Horford was coming back from injury. People foresaw Atlanta being brutal this year, I thought they'd be as good or better than they were with Joe Johnson. JJ was only their 3rd best player. Horford is probably their best player. They replaced JJ with a committee of talented shooters without much D, but a healthy Horford and Josh Smith can make up for that weak D. GREAT job by their GM, which separates us from Atlanta, as our GM is a walking disaster.

Indiana is a poor comparison. Their GM intelligently moved the team into a position where they had a solid core of young guys (Hibbert, George) and guys in their prime (Granger), and also had the cap space to sign a FA who is actually good (West) and trade for a guy who is actually good (Hill). I thought they'd be the 4th best team in the East this year, and the fact that they've been so good without Granger testifies to how solid they are. They stressed defense last year and pushed Miami to the limit and I thought they'd contend this year. They still might if Granger returns healthy. Or if they trade Granger for a position of need, i.e. SG.

If we were able to come even remotely close to putting together a team, and an organization, like Atlanta and Indiana we would have to be ecstatic. We are so far from that level that it isn't even funny. And we have no hope of ever getting to that level as long as Colangelo is running the show.
User avatar
Scase
RealGM
Posts: 10,028
And1: 7,225
Joined: Feb 02, 2009
Location: Ottawa by way of MTL
       

Re: MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P. 

Post#682 » by Scase » Wed Jan 9, 2013 9:47 am

C_Money wrote:I don't get why we're trying to lowball them with Ed Davis and Calderon. They're just going to go with the Phoenix trade while we get stuck with nothing. If BC could put his ego aside and throw in Bargs we'd have a serious offer for them.

For the umpteenth time they are trying to SHED salary, acquiring Bargs is contradictory to that.
Image
Props TZ!
User avatar
mamadontcry
Senior
Posts: 647
And1: 342
Joined: Nov 11, 2012
Location: downunder

Re: MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P.  

Post#683 » by mamadontcry » Wed Jan 9, 2013 10:18 am

Send Ed Davis Calderon a filler and cash consideration for R. Gay. Best offer Memphis can get. A cheap bench PF an expiring contract
#Phil The Master
User avatar
hillbilly hare
Veteran
Posts: 2,551
And1: 219
Joined: Jan 29, 2011

Re: MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P.  

Post#684 » by hillbilly hare » Wed Jan 9, 2013 12:00 pm

Memphis probably has a couple of keys to trading Gay:
1) they cut payroll a LOT next year and the year after
2) they get a big expiring (e.g. Jose)
3) they get a cheap/cheaper replacement SF in order to stay in playoff contention (e.g. Wilson Chandler
4) maybe future picks or a prospect

A 3-way with Denver, where DEN gets Andrea and MEM gets Chandler (if healthy) would be feasible. Would Denver be interested in dealing Chandler + pieces for Andrea? Chandler isn't playing and has a mid-sized contract that runs longer than Andrea's. Andrea provides offense and Denver's good defenders can cover for his D.
User avatar
YoungD23
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,896
And1: 1,069
Joined: Jun 15, 2008
Location: 6ix
 

Re: MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P. 

Post#685 » by YoungD23 » Wed Jan 9, 2013 1:04 pm

fredericklove wrote:Can someone help me think of ways to obtain both Gay and Milsap, trade offer scenario whatever without hitting over the caps.

Lowry
DD
Gay
Milsap
Val

Fapworthy.


Give up our whole team for that.
User avatar
niQ
Forum Mod - Raptors
Forum Mod - Raptors
Posts: 15,506
And1: 29,213
Joined: Jun 14, 2011

Re: MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P. 

Post#686 » by niQ » Wed Jan 9, 2013 3:34 pm

Scase wrote:
C_Money wrote:I don't get why we're trying to lowball them with Ed Davis and Calderon. They're just going to go with the Phoenix trade while we get stuck with nothing. If BC could put his ego aside and throw in Bargs we'd have a serious offer for them.

For the umpteenth time they are trying to SHED salary, acquiring Bargs is contradictory to that.

^this.
StopitLeo
RealGM
Posts: 12,145
And1: 6,605
Joined: Dec 13, 2001
 

Re: MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P. 

Post#687 » by StopitLeo » Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:13 pm

niQ wrote:
Scase wrote:
C_Money wrote:I don't get why we're trying to lowball them with Ed Davis and Calderon. They're just going to go with the Phoenix trade while we get stuck with nothing. If BC could put his ego aside and throw in Bargs we'd have a serious offer for them.

For the umpteenth time they are trying to SHED salary, acquiring Bargs is contradictory to that.

^this.


Bargs makes $6M less per year than Gay so I'm not sure how that doesn't help them cut salary so long as the other pieces in a trade cancel each other out as far as money and years. The key is that they want tax relief looking forward so any other contracts we send need to be shorter than Gay's.

Just to make a crazy example, if we traded for Gay and ZBo, that is around $32M now and going forward for the next 2 seasons. Jose, Andrea, Demar, and Kleiza immediately cut $4M from MEM payroll. Jose's $10M expiring gets reduced because of Demar's extension, but that is still another $4M next year. Kleiza expires the following year which is another $4.5M.

Memphis is only around $4M over the tax threshold. The numbers I used may not get them far below, but it isn't really possible with their outgoing salary being $5-6M more than our biggest expiring. The point is that Andrea alone cannot make the trade work, but in a trade that does work under the CBA, Andrea does not necessarily increase MEM payroll.
User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 19,869
And1: 3,055
Joined: Aug 21, 2009

Re: MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P. 

Post#688 » by Indeed » Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:30 pm

mamadontcry wrote:Send Ed Davis Calderon a filler and cash consideration for R. Gay. Best offer Memphis can get. A cheap bench PF an expiring contract


I would take Granger over Gay with that deal.
Indiana needs to replace West next season, Davis will be a good fit. Then you have Calderon running the point for them.

As for us, although we couldn't trade Bargnani away, but we can keep one of our 10m player with Granger's contract.

For any deal involves with Gay, I would look at Granger first, and see if we can get Granger for a cheaper contract.
Cashin out
Banned User
Posts: 1,456
And1: 12
Joined: Nov 12, 2012

Re: MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P.  

Post#689 » by Cashin out » Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:48 pm

Would you guys really trade for Gay?

You guys know that he is a FA in 2014,if LA don't get Lebron,they may look at Gay to pair with Dwight.
Swag
RealGM
Posts: 11,406
And1: 9,523
Joined: Mar 29, 2010

Re: MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P. 

Post#690 » by Swag » Wed Jan 9, 2013 4:57 pm

Cashin out wrote:Would you guys really trade for Gay?

You guys know that he is a FA in 2014,if LA don't get Lebron,they may look at Gay to pair with Dwight.


I'm not so sure Dwight will resign with the Lakers.

After last night, he might perfer to go to Houston and play with Harden and company
User avatar
wtcantfw
Assistant Coach
Posts: 4,289
And1: 3,578
Joined: Jun 18, 2005

Re: MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P. 

Post#691 » by wtcantfw » Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:03 pm

Swag wrote:
Cashin out wrote:Would you guys really trade for Gay?

You guys know that he is a FA in 2014,if LA don't get Lebron,they may look at Gay to pair with Dwight.


I'm not so sure Dwight will resign with the Lakers.

After last night, he might perfer to go to Houston and play with Harden and company


If Dwight is going to pick from the list of teams that have beaten the Lakers this year, he has plenty of choices.
User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 19,869
And1: 3,055
Joined: Aug 21, 2009

Re: MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P. 

Post#692 » by Indeed » Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:05 pm

Cashin out wrote:Would you guys really trade for Gay?

You guys know that he is a FA in 2014,if LA don't get Lebron,they may look at Gay to pair with Dwight.


You mean 2015, which is a year after Kobe and Gasol's current contract.
Gay has 3 years left, Kobe and Gasol have 2 years left.
User avatar
sanity
RealGM
Posts: 17,550
And1: 1,812
Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Re: MEM shopping Rudy Gay (Raps interested, PHX in lead? P.  

Post#693 » by sanity » Wed Jan 9, 2013 5:10 pm

Memphis will not consider anything that doesn't include Valanciunas. We're kidding ourselves if we think we can peddle off a terrible contract (Bargnani, DeRozan) to them, considering their intention of removing either Gay or Randolph is to avoid paying into the luxury for new ownership...

Return to Toronto Raptors