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OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps

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Post#16 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 10:39 am by Lakonomy

I think we knew DeMar isn't a superstar. With our weaknesses at other positions, as well as our injuries - four bigs out, basically forcing Amir and Ed to play even when it might have been nice to put in somebody with more offence at PF, you would expect OKC to focus on shutting down DeMar's driving lanes and take away the space on screens he needs to get an open look.

It's not rocket science - when your starting lineup is Jose, DeMar, Pietrus, Amir and Ed, who the f@q is going to score, and who does the opponent key on?


Dagger is talking sense. Demar is what he is - he wasn't an all-star before this game, and he's not a complete chump after it. He did have a lot of trouble scoring against TS, especially with perkins and ibaka in the paint. He's a slasher without a great shot, so if you have a good defender sticking to him like glue, and a great paint protector behind your defender, Demar will struggle. Without a reliable post-up player, or a reliable shot creator on the floor, our O stagnates and is fairly easy to stop.

Also, full credit to not only TS, but the OKC bigs too. They were working really well together.
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Post#17 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 10:41 am by Lakonomy

The sensible thing to do is to put Lowry in the starting lineup who is a far better scorer than Calderon.


Also this.
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Post#18 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 10:45 am by Basketball_Jones

The thing is, Demar isn't particularly exceptional at anything. Yes, he can get to the basket and did so a few times against OKC. But he isn't very good finishing at the basket. He air balled a wide open up and under floater, and the only strong finish he really had was that awesome dunk going baseline. Oddly enough, I think his strongest attribute is his ability to create a look for himself. This was something I always criticized him for, but he knows how to do it now. His problem is he's not a great finisher. But it wasn't just Demar that struggled against OKC. Clearly, they are the definition of a long, athletic team that the Raps are trying to be. They made the Raptors look slow, small, short, you name it. The team really misses Jonas, and hate to say it, could use Bargs soon as this small front court wears down.
T-Ross the Boss wrote:Still scratching my head @ Aaron Gray 20 minutes

When he got the ball he was horrified, like someone shot his family.
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Post#19 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 11:02 am by Big Shot

DD has always struggled against stronger opponents. You'd better hope he continues to improve and earn his contract. Having said that, I do think he has improved a lot so far this season.

Btw, I do think pairing him with Lowry has a better chance of success for both DD and the team as a whole.
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Post#20 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 11:31 am by TooHood

Terrible1 wrote:I hope you all are aware that Thabo is easily one of the best defenders in the league and has even locked down LEBRON at times.


thabo is a good defender but almost every team has one of em so that cant possibly be a excuse
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Post#21 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 11:38 am by Calderon

The OKC game didn't expose anything about Demar that wasn't already painfully obvious.
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Post#22 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 11:43 am by dTox

Demar's game completely relies on a pg who can penetrate or will let him have the ball early in the shotclock for him to operate and create a shot. Big reason why he sucked was due to him playing the entire game with Jose, he doesn't get the ball in the post where Lowry has repeatedly found him as well as running the fast break. Its no coincidence that Demar's resurgence came at the same time Lowry returned from injury, and he was also doing well in the first few games before Lowry went down.
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Post#23 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:00 pm by Indeed

dTox wrote:Demar's game completely relies on a pg who can penetrate or will let him have the ball early in the shotclock for him to operate and create a shot. Big reason why he sucked was due to him playing the entire game with Jose, he doesn't get the ball in the post where Lowry has repeatedly found him as well as running the fast break. Its no coincidence that Demar's resurgence came at the same time Lowry returned from injury, and he was also doing well in the first few games before Lowry went down.


If you have Lowry, do you need DeRozan?
Clearly DeRozan cannot be the first option nor second option (perhaps in the future, don't know), where these two options are required to create from nothing to get the team going. That leaves him as the third option, but most third options are two-way players, where they play extremely good defense, and DeRozan is not one.

Usually:
1st option - Capable of leading a team, scoring when the team needs them, and able to create for others
2nd option - Scoring when the team needs them, make your 1st option easier, and take the lead if 1st option is struggling
3rd option - Capable of scoring and defending, lead the team on the defensive end
6th man - Capable of scoring and provide a spark off the bench, not necessary a good defender, but capable of taking the buzzer beater
4th option - Excellent defender and capable of taking open shots
5th option - Excellent defender and capable of taking open shots

I see Lowry and Bargnani as the proven 1st and 2nd option, while Jonas and Ross have the potential to be 3rd and 4th. Our 6th man can be Anderson, and Pietrus to fill the 5th option.

Therefore, if you are replacing Bargnani, I would suppose it will be Gay or someone who is capable of creating from the perimeter, which is a much better player than DeRozan. Gay/Granger is playing the 3rd option on their team, which works replacing Jonas while he is adjusting to the NBA, but I don't DeRozan has that talent to take that role.
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Post#24 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:05 pm by Seasontickets

Talent wins basketball games.

Okc shut down a team with no post options, a pass first pg and minimal three point shooting in the starting unit. I'm all for keeping dd because he's talented.

Trade him for Gay? Nah for 17 million.
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Post#25 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:22 pm by lander

I have often defended Derozan, but yesterday even I was frustrated with him. I guess for me it all comes down to him laying down everytime things don't go the way he would like on the court. For once I would like to see him just go at his defender even if that's forcing the issue. Ultimately though he's not the player people want him to be, but you have to accept that we want more from a guy who is flawed and plays with trash. When the defence is keying in on you your teammates are supposed to make your job easier by playing well. This teams problem is the management that put this roster together and the coach that comes up with the plan.

Yes Demar is flawed, but he is not the problem. OKC game planned for him and we had no answer plus they are a far superior team.
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Post#26 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:44 pm by JWiLL02

Not trying to make excuses for DeMar, but Sefolosha is basically the ultimate player to guard him. He has no size, strength, length or quickness advantage in that match up. Factor in the defensive reputation with the refs and now DeMar won't even get the benefit of any contact when he forces it inside.

Beyond that though, he just seemed to get into DeMar's head. Some of those missed shots were just shaky and lacking in confidence. He put the wrong spin on the ball when he missed that left handed layup in the lane, which is so basic you know his focus just wasn't there.

It's odd too, because he doesn't necessarily flop vs. all elite teams, yet OKC has him locked down. Other than that one dud vs. the Spurs earlier this year, he went on a run of averaging 29 PPG against them. Danny Green and Leonard are quality defensive players too. We just saw him kill Wes Matthews and Nic Batum the other night as well, yet against the Thunder he has the yips.
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Post#27 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:45 pm by YoungG

Demar doesn't have a go-to move in the triple threat position. Alan Anderson for example had a way better game that Demar did, but that doesn't make A.A. better than D.D., it just shows how inexperienced and raw Demar still is.

Demar has quickness on the offensive end but with the ball, he becomes a lot slower. His handles need to improve to the point where he knows what to do in a triple threat position when teams are pushing up on him or sagging of. That knowledge will help him to being to blow by defenders.

As for Demar's defense...positioning is his biggest weakness. He always faces up with his defender rather than force the ball handler to a side. The second the ball handler picks a side, Demar hesitates to then catch up to the ball handler but the thing is, at that point, it's too late.

Demar just needs someone to coach him in the off season and TEACH him these tactics in order for him to grow into a better 2-way player.
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Post#28 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:53 pm by Indeed

JWiLL02 wrote:Not trying to make excuses for DeMar, but Sefolosha is basically the ultimate player to guard him. He has no size, strength, length or quickness advantage in that match up. Factor in the defensive reputation with the refs and now DeMar won't even get the benefit of any contact when he forces it inside.

Beyond that though, he just seemed to get into DeMar's head. Some of those missed shots were just shaky and lacking in confidence. He put the wrong spin on the ball when he missed that left handed layup in the lane, which is so basic you know his focus just wasn't there.

It's odd too, because he doesn't necessarily flop vs. all elite teams, yet OKC has him locked down. Other than that one dud vs. the Spurs earlier this year, he went on a run of averaging 29 PPG against them. Danny Green and Leonard are quality defensive players too. We just saw him kill Wes Matthews and Nic Batum the other night as well, yet against the Thunder he has the yips.


Lol, the game before OKC? Excuse.
DeRozan lacks effort, compare to Ross. Even Bargnani jumps to his highest to contest corner shots, and Bargnani runs back if not because he is clueless. Exact same problem with Bargnani happens in DeRozan on the defensive end. No one taught them defense, and Casey is the first.
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Post#29 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 12:55 pm by West Rouge

Atleast he stayed in New Years eve
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Post#30 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 1:09 pm by erekose200

Demar brings so little to the table. inefficient scorer, awful defender, does not pass or rebound well but does just enough scoring in meaningless games or games against bad teams that, coupled with age, fools people in believing in his 'potential'.
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Post#31 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 1:11 pm by JWiLL02

Indeed wrote:
JWiLL02 wrote:Not trying to make excuses for DeMar, but Sefolosha is basically the ultimate player to guard him. He has no size, strength, length or quickness advantage in that match up. Factor in the defensive reputation with the refs and now DeMar won't even get the benefit of any contact when he forces it inside.

Beyond that though, he just seemed to get into DeMar's head. Some of those missed shots were just shaky and lacking in confidence. He put the wrong spin on the ball when he missed that left handed layup in the lane, which is so basic you know his focus just wasn't there.

It's odd too, because he doesn't necessarily flop vs. all elite teams, yet OKC has him locked down. Other than that one dud vs. the Spurs earlier this year, he went on a run of averaging 29 PPG against them. Danny Green and Leonard are quality defensive players too. We just saw him kill Wes Matthews and Nic Batum the other night as well, yet against the Thunder he has the yips.


Lol, the game before OKC? Excuse.
DeRozan lacks effort, compare to Ross. Even Bargnani jumps to his highest to contest corner shots, and Bargnani runs back if not because he is clueless. Exact same problem with Bargnani happens in DeRozan on the defensive end. No one taught them defense, and Casey is the first.


I'm always impressed that you find a way to talk about Bargnani when he has nothing to do with the topic.
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Post#32 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 1:29 pm by Indeed

JWiLL02 wrote:
Indeed wrote:
JWiLL02 wrote:Not trying to make excuses for DeMar, but Sefolosha is basically the ultimate player to guard him. He has no size, strength, length or quickness advantage in that match up. Factor in the defensive reputation with the refs and now DeMar won't even get the benefit of any contact when he forces it inside.

Beyond that though, he just seemed to get into DeMar's head. Some of those missed shots were just shaky and lacking in confidence. He put the wrong spin on the ball when he missed that left handed layup in the lane, which is so basic you know his focus just wasn't there.

It's odd too, because he doesn't necessarily flop vs. all elite teams, yet OKC has him locked down. Other than that one dud vs. the Spurs earlier this year, he went on a run of averaging 29 PPG against them. Danny Green and Leonard are quality defensive players too. We just saw him kill Wes Matthews and Nic Batum the other night as well, yet against the Thunder he has the yips.


Lol, the game before OKC? Excuse.
DeRozan lacks effort, compare to Ross. Even Bargnani jumps to his highest to contest corner shots, and Bargnani runs back if not because he is clueless. Exact same problem with Bargnani happens in DeRozan on the defensive end. No one taught them defense, and Casey is the first.


I'm always impressed that you find a way to talk about Bargnani when he has nothing to do with the topic.


I bought the same criteria for judging a player. This is what people proclaim their view, shouldn't it be equally evaluate? Unless Bargnani is biased, otherwise, why not put the same criteria / measurement for both players to make things fair?

Again, both has a young player behind them, and both are below their expectation (not rebounding vs not playmaking).
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Post#33 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 1:39 pm by andyo

Demar is exactly what he is. A well below average and inefficient SG at a non-premium position in the NBA (i.e as compared to PG, which has a plethora of quality depth in recent years). And well overpaid as well.
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Post#34 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 1:49 pm by JV4MVP

erekose200 wrote:Demar brings so little to the table. inefficient scorer, awful defender, does not pass or rebound well but does just enough scoring in meaningless games or games against bad teams that, coupled with age, fools people in believing in his 'potential'.


... all for $40,000,000
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Post#35 Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts
Mon Jan 7, 2013 2:06 pm by dballislife

man demar gets hate on way too much here, what about the 20 something good games that hes had
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