Page 2 of 4
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 6:11 pm
by JWiLL02
Indeed wrote:JWiLL02 wrote:Not trying to make excuses for DeMar, but Sefolosha is basically the ultimate player to guard him. He has no size, strength, length or quickness advantage in that match up. Factor in the defensive reputation with the refs and now DeMar won't even get the benefit of any contact when he forces it inside.
Beyond that though, he just seemed to get into DeMar's head. Some of those missed shots were just shaky and lacking in confidence. He put the wrong spin on the ball when he missed that left handed layup in the lane, which is so basic you know his focus just wasn't there.
It's odd too, because he doesn't necessarily flop vs. all elite teams, yet OKC has him locked down. Other than that one dud vs. the Spurs earlier this year, he went on a run of averaging 29 PPG against them. Danny Green and Leonard are quality defensive players too. We just saw him kill Wes Matthews and Nic Batum the other night as well, yet against the Thunder he has the yips.
Lol, the game before OKC? Excuse.
DeRozan lacks effort, compare to Ross. Even Bargnani jumps to his highest to contest corner shots, and Bargnani runs back if not because he is clueless. Exact same problem with Bargnani happens in DeRozan on the defensive end. No one taught them defense, and Casey is the first.
I'm always impressed that you find a way to talk about Bargnani when he has nothing to do with the topic.
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 6:29 pm
by Indeed
JWiLL02 wrote:Indeed wrote:JWiLL02 wrote:Not trying to make excuses for DeMar, but Sefolosha is basically the ultimate player to guard him. He has no size, strength, length or quickness advantage in that match up. Factor in the defensive reputation with the refs and now DeMar won't even get the benefit of any contact when he forces it inside.
Beyond that though, he just seemed to get into DeMar's head. Some of those missed shots were just shaky and lacking in confidence. He put the wrong spin on the ball when he missed that left handed layup in the lane, which is so basic you know his focus just wasn't there.
It's odd too, because he doesn't necessarily flop vs. all elite teams, yet OKC has him locked down. Other than that one dud vs. the Spurs earlier this year, he went on a run of averaging 29 PPG against them. Danny Green and Leonard are quality defensive players too. We just saw him kill Wes Matthews and Nic Batum the other night as well, yet against the Thunder he has the yips.
Lol, the game before OKC? Excuse.
DeRozan lacks effort, compare to Ross. Even Bargnani jumps to his highest to contest corner shots, and Bargnani runs back if not because he is clueless. Exact same problem with Bargnani happens in DeRozan on the defensive end. No one taught them defense, and Casey is the first.
I'm always impressed that you find a way to talk about Bargnani when he has nothing to do with the topic.
I bought the same criteria for judging a player. This is what people proclaim their view, shouldn't it be equally evaluate? Unless Bargnani is biased, otherwise, why not put the same criteria / measurement for both players to make things fair?
Again, both has a young player behind them, and both are below their expectation (not rebounding vs not playmaking).
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 6:39 pm
by andyo
Demar is exactly what he is. A well below average and inefficient SG at a non-premium position in the NBA (i.e as compared to PG, which has a plethora of quality depth in recent years). And well overpaid as well.
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 6:49 pm
by JV4MVP
erekose200 wrote:Demar brings so little to the table. inefficient scorer, awful defender, does not pass or rebound well but does just enough scoring in meaningless games or games against bad teams that, coupled with age, fools people in believing in his 'potential'.
... all for $40,000,000
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 7:06 pm
by dballislife
man demar gets hate on way too much here, what about the 20 something good games that hes had
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 7:10 pm
by pkiskool
DD is overrated.
I'd take JR Smith or OJ Mayo any day over him.
Not to mention his contract... gezz BC
DD should have got Amir's contract, Amir should have got Kleiza's contract, and Kleiza should have got AA's contract.
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 7:13 pm
by Danchan
lol i remember people laughing when I said we should trade demar for OJ mayo last year.
Skillset people skillset. It's obvious from first sight that who has a feel for the game and a real ball player.
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 7:16 pm
by carl_english
We can knock on DD all we want but, he will be here for another 4 years. Deal with it or watch other games(like me).
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 7:35 pm
by The_Hater
I think that DD has a lot of skill in 1 on 1 situations but as soon as a defense gears itself to stop him, it won't ever be very tough. I think that's primary because he lacks 3 point range and doesn't see the floor well enough to exploit double teams.
He should expect to see a lot more of this type of defense in the coming weeks, hopefully he finds a way to adjust.
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 8:20 pm
by Danchan
The_Hater wrote:I think that DD has a lot of skill in 1 on 1 situations but as soon as a defense gears itself to stop him, it won't ever be very tough. I think that's primary because he lacks 3 point range and doesn't see the floor well enough to exploit double teams.
He should expect to see a lot more of this type of defense in the coming weeks, hopefully he finds a way to adjust.
no, it's because he doesn't have any intuition. His 1 on 1 relys on bullying his way into the paint and forcing a shot up. He doesn't have the feel of how the ball bounces or how much force is needed to use to make a lay up. He doesn't have any soft touch around the basket, especially if he's already in motion and in the air. you give him Amir's touch around the rim combined with his raw strength he would be amazing. BUT you can't teach a pig to fly...
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 8:36 pm
by kingr
I knew this OKC game would be THE test. They had a terrific on-ball defender in Sefalosha who gives Kobe Bryant fits on a regular basis. They also have great help defenders in ibaka and perkins. I wanted DD to surprise me and play well against them, but it didn't happen.
However, to those saying DD wasn't a focus of OKC's defensive scheme... This simply isn't true.
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 8:40 pm
by wfnshow316
Great teams expose weakness of good players all the time (and in this league it is impossible to know which pronoun applies - star, all-star, good, great - i'm going to use good). Good defense can even make the greatest look ordinary, (see Kobe needing 25 shots for 35 points - 11/25 in a lose) - especially when you get nothing from anyone else. And despite Ed Davis's potential he has provided little in matching up to the big forwards of Sac/OKC.
But no one eats it's own young like the Toronto Raptors Realgm board, get rid of Bargnani, then start on getting rid of Demar, oh yeah - Ed D - your next - ridiculous
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 8:46 pm
by pkiskool
Danchan wrote:The_Hater wrote:I think that DD has a lot of skill in 1 on 1 situations but as soon as a defense gears itself to stop him, it won't ever be very tough. I think that's primary because he lacks 3 point range and doesn't see the floor well enough to exploit double teams.
He should expect to see a lot more of this type of defense in the coming weeks, hopefully he finds a way to adjust.
no, it's because he doesn't have any intuition. His 1 on 1 relys on bullying his way into the paint and forcing a shot up. He doesn't have the feel of how the ball bounces or how much force is needed to use to make a lay up. He doesn't have any soft touch around the basket, especially if he's already in motion and in the air. you give him Amir's touch around the rim combined with his raw strength he would be amazing. BUT you can't teach a pig to fly...
^this
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 9:09 pm
by The_Hater
Danchan wrote:The_Hater wrote:I think that DD has a lot of skill in 1 on 1 situations but as soon as a defense gears itself to stop him, it won't ever be very tough. I think that's primary because he lacks 3 point range and doesn't see the floor well enough to exploit double teams.
He should expect to see a lot more of this type of defense in the coming weeks, hopefully he finds a way to adjust.
no, it's because he doesn't have any intuition. .
Seeing the floor or not would be, in large part, intuition. You said that he bullies his way to the basket and that's because he can't see any other plays that can be made in front of him.
So while you started your post with 'no', you were actually in agreement with me.
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 9:24 pm
by Chaos Engine
pkiskool wrote:DD is overrated.
I'd take JR Smith or OJ Mayo any day over him.
Not to mention his contract... gezz BC
DD should have got Amir's contract, Amir should have got Kleiza's contract, and Kleiza should have got AA's contract.
If you think DD is overrated, what's with the sig then?
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 10:27 pm
by kalel123
DeMar DeRozan is the least of our problems.
With so many holes elsewhere, there's no point in singling out DeMar DeRozan for his limitations cause trading him won't solve our biggest problems. He can be a solid contributor in a winning situation or be a solid trading chip when we are actually ready to take the next step.
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 10:43 pm
by JunkYardSubs
kalel123 wrote:DeMar DeRozan is the least of our problems.
He can be a solid contributor in a winning situation
I dont think he can
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 10:53 pm
by Big Shot
"A solid contributor in a winning situation" means nothing and can be applied to almost any player in the league. If a player plays with 4 great/good players, his weaknesses can be easily camouflaged.
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 11:01 pm
by kalel123
JunkYardSubs wrote:kalel123 wrote:DeMar DeRozan is the least of our problems.
He can be a solid contributor in a winning situation
I dont think he can
See the second part of my statement. He's easily tradeable if he can't be. The fact is he's improved almost every single year of his young career with the exception of lockout-shortened season after coaching change. There's no reason to think he can't continue to evolve. Even if he stagnates, he's not paid that much by today's standards and he's made strides this year to be worth his contract and not regress like some people tend to do after big extension. That makes me confident that he'll continue to take steps to try and improve so he'll at least be tradeable for a good piece and not become a Bargnani.
Like I said, he's the least of our problems and you are looking in the wrong direction if you are pointing your fingers at him right now and talking like trading him will somehow magically solve our biggest of the problems.
Re: OKC Exposed Demar Derozan game + thoughts on Raps
Posted: Mon Jan 7, 2013 11:07 pm
by JV4MVP
kalel123 wrote:DeMar DeRozan is the least of our problems.
His salary will become an issue.
The only area where he excels at is midrange scoring. Does that warrant a $40M investment, sacrificing cap space with a $4M a year premium? He's not a good defender, he can't playmake for others, and he doesn't rebound or get steals. Even his specialty, scoring, is a function of playing 37 minutes a game and being fairly ball dominant. He has never had a game winning shot in his career and I don't recall him taking over a 4th quarter. He rarely strings together a complete game.