JN wrote:Its amusing how the anti-Drummond narrative has changed from he sucked to "red flags". The Anti-Drummond camp is still claiming victory because they now present any pro-Drummond fan as being ignorant, lacking knowledge and stupid to want a player with these mysterious "red flags".
Those that are claiming "red flags" and saying its beyond just motor, probably are not NCAA fans. The red flags are not a mystery if you followed the Big East last year. He had many on the court related red flags. Its more than motor (which may be the only thing a casual fan knows) Basically it can all be summed up as - "We are not sure if Drummond actually likes playing basketball at an elite level". Inconsistent motor, no concept of team offence fundamentals, no attempt to get involved in any screens / picks, bad practice habits. If you talked to his coaches at UConn the feedback was probably not glowing from those perspectives.
For example, last year, two days before the UConn game against Seton Hall, a reporter asked Drummond how he was going to handle Herb Pope. Pope, a senior, was averaging about 20-10 for the Hall. Drummond had no clue who Pope even was. It's clear the guy was not that prepared. He just liked to go on the court and play -- but being a pro is more than that.
But the coaches would have also said he is a great kid who has interests outside of the game of basketball that most kids don't. Never had any off the court issues at UConn. Not a douche. Decided to get a loan for his academics instead of letting Calhoun take away a scholarship from a player in typical Calhoun fashion.
That is a tonne of red flags. As I said - no mystery. And then you watched and saw when the motor was on -- he had periods against Syracuse against Fab Melo that he was amazing -- he was Dwight Howard and Melo was basically Aaron Gray. You watched the game and you could tell the touch and atleticism was off the charts for such a strong kid. The question was -- will he mature? Let's remember the kid entered the defending NCAA champion at 17 years old -- a team that had weak veteran character and coaching uncertainty.
Look at it this way - the team had maturity questions about a 17 year old kid who is not a douchebag, and yet BC continues to build around a 27 year old who has the same "Does he actually like playing basketball at an elite level" issues. Awesome.
He was clearly a #1 or #2 type talent. But given the maturity issues, it did not make sense to take that much of a risk in the top three picks. But as you move down the draft the tolerance to take risk on special talent has to increase. I was not in favour of taking Drummond if we had a top three pick. But at #8 - absolutely. Its silly not to consider seriously take that risk if the red flags are not douche bag related.
Basically, the red flags are not some giant mystery to people who followed college basketball. They may be a mystery to those who didn't. And you are not an idiot for taklng someone with many basketball related red flags, if you weigh the risk against draft position and available players at #8.
JN basically said what a true NCAA follower would say. This is the kind of post from a guy who actually paid attention on Drummond and uconn team on a regular basis last year, like myself as well. As great as Drummond is playing right now, no one knew he would play this solid in the NBA level this quickly. We all know the whole uconn thing was a negative environment for the young talented group but all the on court individual effort was pretty alarming last year. His learning curve/fundamentals were so subpar so well behind that scouts and teams fear him that much despite being an immense talent. All 8 teams passed on him for that same legit reason.
Right now he's the type of prospect who defies all odds and plays like he's supposed to play. What I can't stand is seeing posters here acting like smart pansy saying teams are so dumb for passing on him or his mental prematurity is wrong preception like I told you so, or his talent is too good who cares about the red flag risk. I can understand the Ross/Drummond pick debate at 8th pick but don't understand posters acting like they know it all as if they actually followed him from college day 1, monitored his development and already so confident knowing his red flag won't be an issue in the pro level.
Just to reiterate: our GM passed on him without even bringing him in for an interview and a private workout. Both of which would've been a good starting point to see if the alleged red flags were baseless or not. Drummond's coach, who saw the guy every day, said he was a great kid who learned quickly. That's two of the red flags right there. Sure, he might've just been mouthing the usual good things about one of his players. But that should have at least piqued a GM's interest, given Drummond's immense potential and the fact that the only thing holding him back from being the number 2 prospect in the draft. I can understand the GMs who had him in for a workout and decided against picking him, e.g. West, but to just rule him out a priori is really poor work by our GM.
Things that are difficult to stand here are posters/fans who say that ANY teenage kid or 20-21 year old is either a "character" guy or a "head case", or has a "good work ethic" or is "lazy", and so on. What the hell do we know? We can go on the kid's coach's comments, though they might be biased, or the guy's teammates (same problem), or anonymous scouts writing on the net. And we can go on what we see in the kid's college games. Which often isn't much to go on. Why would Ross be considered a "plus" kind of guy and Drummond a "risk"? Because Ross "looked like" he was working hard in college, and Drummond wasn't? People can twist things any way to suit them. Ross came from a school that played in the NIT and not the NCAAs, and in some cases that's been held against a guy. Like it was with Lillard, too. If you like the guy, though, you can point to other guys who have starred in the NBA after coming from small schools.
Bottom line with Drummond is he was the perfect guy you had to do extra homework on. Just like the Lakers did with Andrew Bynum. You do your work and reduce the unknowns and potential risks as much as you can, then draft the guy or not. Our GM didn't. Joe Dumars did.