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OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA his

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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#261 » by Neutral 123 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:44 pm

Basketball_Jones wrote:Drummond does seem a bit stoic out there. Even after monster jams there's literally no emotion. I don't know why they just perceived that as a sign he doesn't care, but perhaps they just linked that to his overall play at UConn and put two and two together.

You would think that would be the sort of character guy BC would love. It makes his passing on him even more puzzling.
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#262 » by Basketball_Jones » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:57 pm

Neutral 123 wrote:
Basketball_Jones wrote:Drummond does seem a bit stoic out there. Even after monster jams there's literally no emotion. I don't know why they just perceived that as a sign he doesn't care, but perhaps they just linked that to his overall play at UConn and put two and two together.

You would think that would be the sort of character guy BC would love. It makes his passing on him even more puzzling.


Drummond is exactly the type of prospect BC would normally take a chance on, especially with the 8th pick. Again, I think priorities shifted from development to wanting someone that could contribute right away so he went with Casey's suggestion in Ross. Maybe BC felt Ross was the better pick overall anyway, though so far he's wrong on that. Ross better be good. I know he won't be bad, but to offset the opportunity cost of passing on Drummond I'm hoping he's good.
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#263 » by Neutral 123 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:06 pm

Basketball_Jones wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
Basketball_Jones wrote:Drummond does seem a bit stoic out there. Even after monster jams there's literally no emotion. I don't know why they just perceived that as a sign he doesn't care, but perhaps they just linked that to his overall play at UConn and put two and two together.

You would think that would be the sort of character guy BC would love. It makes his passing on him even more puzzling.


Drummond is exactly the type of prospect BC would normally take a chance on, especially with the 8th pick. Again, I think priorities shifted from development to wanting someone that could contribute right away so he went with Casey's suggestion in Ross. Maybe BC felt Ross was the better pick overall anyway, though so far he's wrong on that. Ross better be good. I know he won't be bad, but to offset the opportunity cost of passing on Drummond I'm hoping he's good.

I don't know, I'm just hoping BC is fired at this point. Is there any logical reason to pick someone who could contribute right away anyways?
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#264 » by Basketball_Jones » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:08 pm

Neutral 123 wrote:I don't know, I'm just hoping BC is fired at this point. Is there any logical reason to pick someone who could contribute right away anyways?


On a rebuilding team, it's probably not high up on the priority list when drafting. Not how it's traditionally done anyways. Between trading away the pick for Lowry, going after Nash, signing Fields just to do it, I think it's pretty clear he was looking to be done with rebuilding as early as this season.
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#265 » by Neutral 123 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:15 pm

Basketball_Jones wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:I don't know, I'm just hoping BC is fired at this point. Is there any logical reason to pick someone who could contribute right away anyways?


On a rebuilding team, probably not. Not how it's traditionally done anyways. Between trading away the pick for Lowry, going after Nash, signing Fields just to do it, I think it's pretty clear he was looking to be done with rebuilding as early as this season.

The problem is adding more of the same level talent doesn't improve a team. So while going into the season it's easy to say he added Ross, Val, Lowry, and Fields, these guys were either rookies not expected to be upgrades right away, or guys who would be small upgrades at best. The only guy who you would figure would be an actual upgrade was the only guy he didn't get, and would have only been an upgrade for a season. BC is killing the team in hopes of extended his charade for a little while longer. It clearly hasn't worked, and this guy still has a job.

As bad as things had been, had this guy been a half decent GM, the Raps could have had Val, Drummond, a pick this year, and possibly a high draft pick in 2014, if he actually rebuilt, and stuck with it. Val, Drummond, and even a top 5 pick from 2014 and the team would have been set for the future. But that would have meant shipping out guys like Jose, Bargs, not signing Fields. The longer this guy is GM, the worse the Raps will be for years and years to come.
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#266 » by mid-post » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:22 pm

YogiStewart wrote:again, as Joe Fan, you are limited to what people know behind the scene. you really are. there are so many layers to the media, sources, athletes, etc. what you hear is usually what someone WANTS you to hear. you aren't going to hear the real dirt and rumours. so if someone like Givony - who has his finger on the pulse of NCAA and European ball like few do - says there are red flags, then he knows something legitimate.


Um, no. I live about 25 minutes from where Drummond grew up. Rumors spread like wildfire in a relatively small community, and there wasn't ever a peep about this kid. I know people from his middle school and first high school teams, and I'm friends with the brother of one of the guys he played aau with. All you ever heard was that Andre was a cool, fun loving kid who had skills that needed to be worked on, but that he was basically going to be a beast. He's been under a microscope for like 6 years now and the UConn press contingent is merciless in their coverage because UConn basically is Connecticut's professional team.

don't follow Givony. he has more hits than misses and, while he may occasionally be wrong, he's usually bang on. go look at his predicted draft board year in and year out. he's never far off.

I won't. Big deal, he does a decent job of predicting the order in which people will be drafted. A lot of people on RealGM do that year in year out. That's not important, what's important is making a proper assessment of a player, how they'll project and how they'll fit with the squad that's supposed to draft them. If you think Draftexpress is impressive in that regard then I feel sorry for you. All he did was build a pulpit that allows him to seem more prominent in the basketball world than he probably should be.

*edit*
And Givony is definitely responsible for advancing the idea that Drummond doesn't have enough of a passion for basketball, he did it with the Herb Pope thing (check out the tweets on the left http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Her ... s/leaders/) and he did it in the predraft interviews.
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#267 » by Basketball_Jones » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:26 pm

Neutral 123 wrote:As bad as things had been, had this guy been a half decent GM, the Raps could have had Val, Drummond, a pick this year, and possibly a high draft pick in 2014, if he actually rebuilt, and stuck with it. Val, Drummond, and even a top 5 pick from 2014 and the team would have been set for the future. But that would have meant shipping out guys like Jose, Bargs, not signing Fields. The longer this guy is GM, the worse the Raps will be for years and years to come.


Agreed. He's lost whatever magic he used to have and I think this franchise needs a change. Unfortunately, it probably doesn't just stop at Colangelo. There's a bunch of monkeys behind the scenes at MLSE that probably don't know what the heck is going on with the Raptors either.
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#268 » by gamer4Life » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:34 pm

Basketball_Jones wrote:Drummond does seem a bit stoic out there. Even after monster jams there's literally no emotion. I don't know why they just perceived that as a sign he doesn't care, but perhaps they just linked that to his overall play at UConn and put two and two together. More teams should have done their homework.


Tim Duncan is pretty stoic too. But then again, he was drafted when he was fully polished.
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#269 » by Kevin Willis » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:54 pm

Volcano wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:Drummond is a good young player but he's not a legend that people are making him out to be. He hasn't turned around a franchise. He doesn't start over Greg Monroe. He plays limited minutes and makes his living off of scraps. No team game plans for Drummond.

He's not Howard, Shaq, Stoudemire or Yao Ming(older). He's not KG, T-Mac or even KD and Beasley (teens). He's a good young player on a non-playoff team with limited minutes. Give him more than half a season to see what his motor really is like. Let him start. Let him see how he executes plays run for him. No-one questioned his talent but we have a decent front-line as is. Drummond, Davis, JV and Amir is a front-court to fire a coach.

A lot of teams passed on Drummond. Before the start of the last NCAA season he was seeded 1 or 2 along with Davis. Compare their seasons. Ask yourself if you put Drummond on NO can he make the same impact. If you put Drummond on Washington can he help them more than Beal. How about GS? How about Portland? On a draft that lacked seperation we needed a Ross-type more than a Drummond-type. And Ross was doing well until teams caught on to him. He will adjust. He may never be as good as Drummond but then again in 3 years Drummond can stop caring.

Such unnecessary exaggeration all in an attempt to flame BC. Comments from anger lead to bad comments.


Summary:
- he sucks because he's not an all-star this season
- put him in a different situation and he'll suck for sure
- if other teams pass on a player, we should too
- draft for need and character, ignore talent
- Drummond can't shoot 3's
- Opposing teams are locked in on Ross, who will adjust. They haven't caught onto Drummond yet, but when they do, Drummond won't be able to adjust.

all very convincing points



Clarify:
- he doesn't suck. not at all. but lets not put him in the category of other young superstars
- if other teams pass on a player, there's probably a good reason why. Brandon Roy was passed on. Dejuan Blair was passed on. Even Solomon Albi was passed on. Those teams had no idea what they were doing.
- If a group of players are considered close then draft based on need and character. Drummond wasn't heads above everyone else or he would've been drafted second
- well, he's 50% so he can shoot 3s.
- No-one is game planning for Drummond because he's not a focal point on offense. Casey runs plays for Ross so he's a focal part of our offense. There's nothing to catch onto Drummond, they know what he is right now. A hustle player who can board, shoot close to the rim and protect the rim. Good points for sure but not at the same level of other young phenoms.

That's the whole point I'm making, it's being exaggerated a little too much.
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#270 » by Neutral 123 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:00 pm

Kevin Willis wrote:
Volcano wrote:
Kevin Willis wrote:Drummond is a good young player but he's not a legend that people are making him out to be. He hasn't turned around a franchise. He doesn't start over Greg Monroe. He plays limited minutes and makes his living off of scraps. No team game plans for Drummond.

He's not Howard, Shaq, Stoudemire or Yao Ming(older). He's not KG, T-Mac or even KD and Beasley (teens). He's a good young player on a non-playoff team with limited minutes. Give him more than half a season to see what his motor really is like. Let him start. Let him see how he executes plays run for him. No-one questioned his talent but we have a decent front-line as is. Drummond, Davis, JV and Amir is a front-court to fire a coach.

A lot of teams passed on Drummond. Before the start of the last NCAA season he was seeded 1 or 2 along with Davis. Compare their seasons. Ask yourself if you put Drummond on NO can he make the same impact. If you put Drummond on Washington can he help them more than Beal. How about GS? How about Portland? On a draft that lacked seperation we needed a Ross-type more than a Drummond-type. And Ross was doing well until teams caught on to him. He will adjust. He may never be as good as Drummond but then again in 3 years Drummond can stop caring.

Such unnecessary exaggeration all in an attempt to flame BC. Comments from anger lead to bad comments.


Summary:
- he sucks because he's not an all-star this season
- put him in a different situation and he'll suck for sure
- if other teams pass on a player, we should too
- draft for need and character, ignore talent
- Drummond can't shoot 3's
- Opposing teams are locked in on Ross, who will adjust. They haven't caught onto Drummond yet, but when they do, Drummond won't be able to adjust.

all very convincing points



Clarify:
- he doesn't suck. not at all. but lets not put him in the category of other young superstars
- if other teams pass on a player, there's probably a good reason why. Brandon Roy was passed on. Dejuan Blair was passed on. Even Solomon Albi was passed on. Those teams had no idea what they were doing.
- If a group of players are considered close then draft based on need and character. Drummond wasn't heads above everyone else or he would've been drafted second
- well, he's 50% so he can shoot 3s.
- No-one is game planning for Drummond because he's not a focal point on offense. Casey runs plays for Ross so he's a focal part of our offense. There's nothing to catch onto Drummond, they know what he is right now. A hustle player who can board, shoot close to the rim and protect the rim. Good points for sure but not at the same level of other young phenoms.

That's the whole point I'm making, it's being exaggerated a little too much.

Hey, I can't blame you, whatever eases the pain. Drummond has provided a pretty good floor, now you can hope that he doesn't reach a very high ceiling. That's all Raps fans have left. Hoping Drummond doesn't pan out, hoping OKC doesn't draft a very good player with the Raps picks. BC has turned even the biggest of his supporters into haters. It's sad.
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#271 » by Kevin Willis » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:05 pm

mid-post wrote:
YogiStewart wrote:again, as Joe Fan, you are limited to what people know behind the scene. you really are. there are so many layers to the media, sources, athletes, etc. what you hear is usually what someone WANTS you to hear. you aren't going to hear the real dirt and rumours. so if someone like Givony - who has his finger on the pulse of NCAA and European ball like few do - says there are red flags, then he knows something legitimate.


Um, no. I live about 25 minutes from where Drummond grew up. Rumors spread like wildfire in a relatively small community, and there wasn't ever a peep about this kid. I know people from his middle school and first high school teams, and I'm friends with the brother of one of the guys he played aau with. All you ever heard was that Andre was a cool, fun loving kid who had skills that needed to be worked on, but that he was basically going to be a beast. He's been under a microscope for like 6 years now and the UConn press contingent is merciless in their coverage because UConn basically is Connecticut's professional team.

don't follow Givony. he has more hits than misses and, while he may occasionally be wrong, he's usually bang on. go look at his predicted draft board year in and year out. he's never far off.

I won't. Big deal, he does a decent job of predicting the order in which people will be drafted. A lot of people on RealGM do that year in year out. That's not important, what's important is making a proper assessment of a player, how they'll project and how they'll fit with the squad that's supposed to draft them. If you think Draftexpress is impressive in that regard then I feel sorry for you. All he did was build a pulpit that allows him to seem more prominent in the basketball world than he probably should be.

*edit*
And Givony is definitely responsible for advancing the idea that Drummond doesn't have enough of a passion for basketball, he did it with the Herb Pope thing (check out the tweets on the left http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Her ... s/leaders/) and he did it in the predraft interviews.


Then I'll ask you this - what did you hear about Lamb or from Kemba Walker? I don't disagree with you but there were storries about both of them and I am curious if you heard anything.
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#272 » by mid-post » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:36 pm

I don't really know what stories you're referencing with Lamb or Kemba tbh. If you're asking about basketball, I always felt like those guys' "red flags" basketball wise were a lot more glaring and the concerns more valid (Kemba being considered not a good enough 3pt shooter or how he'd adjust playing the point instead of being a scoring guard and Lamb being considered too frail or not assertive enough).
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#273 » by Ripp » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:20 pm

momo124 wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czs9XY6FRRw&list=PLlVlyGVtvuVma1aFD1WxGfHcG9wj88-LH&index=4[/youtube]


:o

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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#274 » by Ell Curry » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:47 pm

Here's some fun masochism: What teams do you think would not give up their unprotected 2013 1st rounder, today, for Drummond?

Even worse, comes 2014 when Wiggins is about to go 1st overall and some deluded fans are talking about how we could trade Ross, Derozan, the 2015 1st and the 13th pick to move up to 1 and take Wiggins, we'll know that we'd actually have been in a position to make a strong move for Wiggins if we had just taken Drummond and retained our 2013 pick instead of traded it for 2 cheapish years of Lowry, who will either leave that summer or need to be paid 11 or 12 to stick around.

I wrote this at the time, but I still can't believe Colangelo didn't pick Drummond, make the offer to Lin the Rockets eventually did (which posters here were discussing for months), hand Drummond and Jonas V 25 minutes a piece, Lin the ball and get ready for 2 years of fun but losing ball and get some swingmen to go with those 3. Add whatever assets you get back for Amir Johnson, Ed Davis Calderon and Bargnani, amnesty Kleiza, the cap space for the next 2 summers and you've got something like:

Bigs (Around 12 million): 1-Drummond 2-Jonas V, 3-MLE
Wings (Around 18 million) : 1-2013 1st, 2-2014 1st, 3-Max Free Agent/Big Salary in trade
Guards (Around 15 million): 1 - Lin, 2- FA for 3-4 million

That's a team with 12-15 million to spend on raises for the RFA's when the bigs need to be paid. The space in the meantime even be banked for future luxury tax payments if MLSE demands it.

Does anyone think that would have required a genius?

It would have meant patience while we lost 120 games the next two years and getting 2 very good players from the 2 top 10 picks, massive cap space and (less likely) from the 4 tradeable veteran pieces. And most crucially, it would have meant canning Colangelo and hiring someone hoping to turn the team into a conference contender but being willing to wait 4 or 5 years, instead of looking to turn us into a contender to lose in 5 in Round 1 right away.*

*The Raptors have a 26.9% chance to make the playoffs at this time!
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#275 » by Neutral 123 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:02 am

5-7 11pts 11rbs 2stls 2blks 24 min played.. Ouch...
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#276 » by tecumseh18 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:16 am

Ripp wrote:
momo124 wrote:[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=czs9XY6FRRw&list=PLlVlyGVtvuVma1aFD1WxGfHcG9wj88-LH&index=4[/youtube]


:o

sweet jesus


Y'know what's really scary? Drummond's not even muscular right now. He's just a rookie - gonna fill out.

And then ...
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#277 » by wolfv » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:24 am

I'm going to go ask the pistons board if they'd do an AD for BArgs swap. Brb...
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#278 » by Jack_Hardstrong » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:28 am

NO SURPRISE DRUMMOND GOT ANOTHER DOUBLE DOUBLE AGAINST THE MAGIC TODAY
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Re: OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA 

Post#279 » by J Dilla » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:35 am

It doesn't matter if he's dunking. Dunking is all eye candy. He's talented? It doesn't matter. The most important thing when targeting basketball players is their mental make up. Basketball is a mental game, the physical talent is actually used 5% of the time.

Jahidi White 2.0. Ross>>>>>Drummond

**** you steve Nash and **** you BC
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Connecticut Post: Andre Drummond seems a steal with 9th pick 

Post#280 » by polo007 » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:46 am

http://www.ctpost.com/uconn/article/Kev ... 215029.php

In his past 10 games, including that personal dunk contest against Boston's aging frontcourt, Drummond has averaged 10.1 points, 8.8 rebounds and 1.9 blocks while shooting a staggering 72.6 percent from the field. Against superior competition -- we're talking K.G., not Fab Melo -- his stats are slightly more impressive than they were in Storrs last winter.

Meanwhile, Thomas Robinson, drafted fifth by Sacramento, has one double-double in 38 games. Michael Kidd-Gilchrist, who the Bobcats tabbed with the second pick, has been -- as predicted -- solid yet unspectacular. And Toronto's Terrence Ross, a 6-foot-7 wing (which are a dime a dozen), has been rather inconsistent: He scored 26 points on Jan. 2; then a combined 14 points over his next seven games. Ross came off the board one pick before Drummond.

"We certainly recognized the extraordinary talent that Andre has," said Raptors G.M. Bryan Colangelo, "but the fit just wasn't right for our team given that we had previously drafted another young project big man in Jonas Valanciunas."

Ah, the project big man. Valanciunas showed promise before breaking his right ring finger in December. As for Drummond? According to several media outlets, he has the highest efficiency rating of any teenager in NBA history.

...Yikes.

So, yes, sometime within the next few years, fanbases in Toronto, Sacramento and maybe even Cleveland and Charlotte will regret their GM's move in the 2012 draft. My question: Can you blame them?

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