OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA his

[Kevin Willis]

I think BC just thought we have a stable of young bigs and we don't need anymore (JV might be as good as Drummond...). Also we have a SG who may leave and we have no-one to fill in his shoes.

Plus Casey likes athletic, defenders with strong work ethic and Ross filled that role (Casey said he heard about his work ethic during the lock out). BC told Casey in behind the draft 'you go that athletic, defensive SG you wanted'. They wanted to make the team mentally tougher and Acy and Ross fit that role well. If Casey wanted to win this year, I wouldn't draft Drummond either.

Maybe it's short-sighted but in a push season Drummond would not develop as they would like and they would still not address perimeter D. At least that's what I think BC thought- it might be wrong but it's understandable.

I think I disagree with everything you said. LIke everything.

It doesn't matter what you think. Did you see behind the draft? These are the things stated by BC and Stefanski. It's not opinion or conjecture. There were not going to draft a big with JV coming. Then add Davis, Bargnani and Johnson. They also said they wanted to push for the playoffs this year. They also said last year was to build 'culture' but not this year.

From everything they said - why would they consider a project big? I"m not saying it's right, I'm just telling you what was said.

[Kevin Willis]

I think BC just thought we have a stable of young bigs and we don't need anymore (JV might be as good as Drummond...). Also we have a SG who may leave and we have no-one to fill in his shoes.

Plus Casey likes athletic, defenders with strong work ethic and Ross filled that role (Casey said he heard about his work ethic during the lock out). BC told Casey in behind the draft 'you go that athletic, defensive SG you wanted'. They wanted to make the team mentally tougher and Acy and Ross fit that role well. If Casey wanted to win this year, I wouldn't draft Drummond either.

Maybe it's short-sighted but in a push season Drummond would not develop as they would like and they would still not address perimeter D. At least that's what I think BC thought- it might be wrong but it's understandable.

If you watched the draft as I did the NBA Analysts were so befuddled by our pick that they decided to talk about Jonas for 5 minutes while Detroit pondered a no-brainer.

Then you have Ross who was a reach but there was the idea that he may make DD expendable. Well, instead of making him expendable or at least let the market dictate the real value for DD - Colon Jello decided he was going to outbid himself, again, as he did with Bargs.

Also, we reached for Ross @ #8 ... If we really wanted Ross and Lowry I am sure Houston would've done a Drummond+Scrub we packaged (can't remember his name atm) for Lowry+Ross as Houston could have picked for us a bit later.

It was a common knowledge at the time that Lowry and McHale did not see eye to eye so it was obvious they wanted to move him and they found the sucker to overpay.

NBA analysts didn't like Damon Stoudamire either. Everyone wanted Ed O'Bannon from UCLA. Ross was a need pick with upside. All these statements on what we could or couldn't do is talk. Especially considering they wanted Nash. If Nash said no from the beginning it's possible these trades could've happened. But that is not what did happened.

[Neutral 123]

I think BC just thought we have a stable of young bigs and we don't need anymore (JV might be as good as Drummond...). Also we have a SG who may leave and we have no-one to fill in his shoes.

Plus Casey likes athletic, defenders with strong work ethic and Ross filled that role (Casey said he heard about his work ethic during the lock out). BC told Casey in behind the draft 'you go that athletic, defensive SG you wanted'. They wanted to make the team mentally tougher and Acy and Ross fit that role well. If Casey wanted to win this year, I wouldn't draft Drummond either.

Maybe it's short-sighted but in a push season Drummond would not develop as they would like and they would still not address perimeter D. At least that's what I think BC thought- it might be wrong but it's understandable.

I think I disagree with everything you said. LIke everything.

It doesn't matter what you think. Did you see behind the draft? These are the things stated by BC and Stefanski. It's not opinion or conjecture. There were not going to draft a big with JV coming. Then add Davis, Bargnani and Johnson. They also said they wanted to push for the playoffs this year. They also said last year was to build 'culture' but not this year.

From everything they said - why would they consider a project big? I"m not saying it's right, I'm just telling you what was said.

So when the Raps don't make the playoffs this year is it safe to say the BC failed, or are there other excuses in the bag?

It's funny, he couldn't draft a C, but the only C who you'd want to give minutes, was a rookie who never played an NBA game. Seems like there would be a lot of minutes available.

[DreamTeam09]

^^ With JV Bargs Ed Davis Amir and even Gray who they prolly knew they were gonna resign for some vet tutelage, where would there be space or time for Drummond?

[Neutral 123]

^^ With JV Bargs Ed Davis Amir and even Gray who they prolly knew they were gonna resign for some vet tutelage, where would there be space or time for Drummond?

Vet tutelage? I mean how is a team going to get better if they refuse to upgrade talent? Gray barely plays as is, so it's crazy to think that him being on the roster should affect anything. The only C on the roster you want to give minutes to would be JV, and you would have no idea how many minutes he could handle. Ed would barely get any playing time, and only got significant minutes because Bargs and JV got hurt. So let's not pretend he was viewed as a vital part of the team. Amir is a backup, and I don't even need to start with Bargs. The truth is, the team needs talent upgrades from every position. So you attempt to get that star regardless of position. Instead, they can't even hide their disappoint they didn't get Barnes, and talk about Ross in terms of fit and being a role player.

[DreamTeam09]

^^ Still even without Gray. We still had JV Amir Ed Davis + Bargs under contract during the draft. Thats 4 bigs who all deserve significant minutes. Last season our bigs weren't the main problem, we needed more options on the wings. We needed a shooter in the worst way and we drafted a shooter with elite hops. I'm not madd at that. Drummond was coming off a **** yr in college and didn't excite the league during workouts either. We know this cause he fell to 9. Several teams ahead of us needed bigs and went as far away as possible from Drummond.

I personally don't even think a Drummond and Val front court could prosper with all this small ball & stretch 4 BS we see in the NBA. Drummond will be a good player, so far hes done more than I thought he'd do this yr. But i've seen **** in this thread like this was worst than picking hoffa. gtfoh with alla that.

[Neutral 123]

Ed didn't get significant minutes last year. Amir is a back up, and along with Bargs, those are all PF anyways. You have no idea going into the year what to expect from Val. Drummond and Val splitting minutes would have been a totally reasonable option. Drummond plays about 20 minutes per game, and that would leave 28 for Val if you never had them on the floor at the same time.

But again, the BIGGEST issue is the team is not good enough from any position. There are no allstars on the roster. So it makes no sense to say the bigs aren't the problem. They aren't good enough either. Plus Ross wasn't drafted because they thought he could be a star, he was drafted to 'fit' into the garbage BC puts out year after year.

How is the team supposed to get better if they refuse to draft guys with star potential, and then if they do, refuse to play them? No one is going to trade away their stars for the crap on the Raps roster.

[Spacing]

Ed didn't get significant minutes last year. Amir is a back up, and along with Bargs, those are all PF anyways. You have no idea going into the year what to expect from Val. Drummond and Val splitting minutes would have been a totally reasonable option. Drummond plays about 20 minutes per game, and that would leave 28 for Val if you never had them on the floor at the same time.

But again, the BIGGEST issue is the team is not good enough from any position. There are no allstars on the roster. So it makes no sense to say the bigs aren't the problem. They aren't good enough either. Plus Ross wasn't drafted because they thought he could be a star, he was drafted to 'fit' into the garbage BC puts out year after year.

How is the team supposed to get better if they refuse to draft guys with star potential, and then if they do, refuse to play them? No one is going to trade away their stars for the crap on the Raps roster.

Post of the year material

[DreamTeam09]

^^ So then what are we going to do with Amir Ed Davis and Bargnani in your scenario?? Whos the odd man out?? Pre-draft you are moving one of those players because Drummond fell to 8?? If any of the GMs thought drummond was going to be as good as you think he is/will be he wouldn't of been there at 8 on draft day.

Its not an excuse or a cop out to say we didn't need another project big on draft day even if you peg him to end up being really good. The only big I think they would even consider is AD. At least he would make a better pairing beside val and is actually worthy enough to move out one of our bigs for. Even right now, i'd move out bargs for drummond, but pre draft thats a gutsy and possibly unnecessary thing to do. No one thought Drummond was star talent which is why he was even available at 8 and fell to 9th. Pegged him as DAJ at best and he's not a star. Great player, every team could and would like to have him i'm sure, but still not a star at all. Same thing goes for Drummond in my books and that's nothing to lose sleep over.

[UcanUwill]

Edit : Well here you go. Rotations and other players is not the problem, not knowing how good Drummond is was the problem. We should not talk about minutes.

Before season, no one thought Drummond and Val gonna play that much to begin with. Val was a fouling machine center coming from overseas and Drummond was ''ultimate project''. Most people expected Drummond not to be relevant at all during his rookie year, and thats ok, he was a long term project type of guy. Even if inside guys knew and expected more from both of these guys, you can still make room for both of them just fine.

If BC actually felt comfortable about Drummond, and he passed on him because of rotations, thats unjustifiable move. That couldn't be. There were other red flags around Drummond and that was the reason why he was not selected. You shouldn't even talk about minutes and needs and rotations. Cant be relevant factors.

[Phenomenologist]

I think BC just thought we have a stable of young bigs and we don't need anymore (JV might be as good as Drummond...). Also we have a SG who may leave and we have no-one to fill in his shoes.

Plus Casey likes athletic, defenders with strong work ethic and Ross filled that role (Casey said he heard about his work ethic during the lock out). BC told Casey in behind the draft 'you go that athletic, defensive SG you wanted'. They wanted to make the team mentally tougher and Acy and Ross fit that role well. If Casey wanted to win this year, I wouldn't draft Drummond either.

Maybe it's short-sighted but in a push season Drummond would not develop as they would like and they would still not address perimeter D. At least that's what I think BC thought- it might be wrong but it's understandable.

I think I disagree with everything you said. LIke everything.

It doesn't matter what you think. Did you see behind the draft? These are the things stated by BC and Stefanski. It's not opinion or conjecture. There were not going to draft a big with JV coming. Then add Davis, Bargnani and Johnson. They also said they wanted to push for the playoffs this year. They also said last year was to build 'culture' but not this year.

From everything they said - why would they consider a project big? I"m not saying it's right, I'm just telling you what was said.

lol, I know, I was TRYING to be funny. YOU said exactly ONE thing: that "it might be wrong but it's understandable." I disagree with that. It's not understandable in the least. Not in the least.

[Phenomenologist]

WTF is wrong with having 5 bigs? I don't get that. This is the stupidest argument. BCs reasoning is not even close to defensible for the reasons I've now repeated 1000x. Just stop. Please. Ur embarrassing yourselves.

[Phenomenologist]

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/53963/the-andre-drummond-experience

sigh...

[YogiStewart]

WTF is wrong with having 5 bigs? I don't get that. This is the stupidest argument. BCs reasoning is not even close to defensible for the reasons I've now repeated 1000x. iJust stop. Please. Ur embarrassing yourselves.

i think the argument has run its course.
what's done is done, including this discussion.

if there is reason to start discussing Drummond in the near future (i.e. ROY candidates at the end of the season) then we can start up a new thread.