OT: Espn - Drummond could rank as 'greatest teen' in NBA his

[Guy Smiley]

Fans of a franchise with a losing record, no history of success, tradition, or anything resembling a storied past are unhappy. Imagine that.

You learn something new every day.

[Raps in 4]

still don't understand why those of you are crowing about Toronto's missed opportunity.
Sac-town drafted Robinson instead of Drummond. they were looking for a big man. so didn't they err more than Toronto did when we already had our centre of the future on board?

... because this is the raptor's board and not the Kings board :/

Fair enough but I also think it has a lot to do with the fact that many of the Raptors fans on here are like this in real life...


I want to revel in my sadness and only talk about things that highlight where the Raptors went wrong

Who wouldn't look like that after 17 years of Raptor ball?

[Raps in 4]

Fans of a franchise with a losing record, no history of success, tradition, or anything resembling a storied past are unhappy. Imagine that.

You learn something new every day.

It's missed opportunities like these that compound that feeling of hopelessness. We can't do anything right.

[KnickerBonkerz]

I still have hope for Ross, but ignoring the fact that it was an utterly moronic decision to draft Ross over Drummond (everyone and their Mom had him at 8, no one had Ross top 10) is what BC wants you to do.

[pop-vlado]

So what we got this.

The game were he went 2-9... only 2 FGs being dunks?

Dunking is the future of basketball.

Every time this guy has a good game or gets a nice dunk, kids like him get raging boners for him while completely ignoring all the other games where he was utterly useless. People here actually consider him "untradeable."

The fact this scrub can't even get enough playing time with this pathetic wing corp is pretty sad and depressing considering he was suppose to be one of the most NBA ready player.

Hahahaa cheer up buddy!

[Double Helix]

still don't understand why those of you are crowing about Toronto's missed opportunity.
Sac-town drafted Robinson instead of Drummond. they were looking for a big man. so didn't they err more than Toronto did when we already had our centre of the future on board?

What does that have to do with us? What's important is that WE screwed up.

It provides perspective. How would you feel if the optimists on this board routinely pointed out all the players drafted before our picks in the previous drafts who are playing worse than the player we ended up with and we kept saying "Aren't we glad we have our guy instead of that guy!?"

Wouldn't it become tiring to you guys?

Should I start posting a new thread every time there's an article on Wesley Johnson being a bust because he was drafted 3rd in the draft where we landed Ed Davis 13th? This is what I mean when I bring up perspective. Some of you only seem to look at things from one perspective and only when the team has missed out on an opportunity.

[Raps in 4]

still don't understand why those of you are crowing about Toronto's missed opportunity.
Sac-town drafted Robinson instead of Drummond. they were looking for a big man. so didn't they err more than Toronto did when we already had our centre of the future on board?

What does that have to do with us? What's important is that WE screwed up.

It provides perspective. How would you feel if the optimists on this board routinely pointed out all the players drafted before our picks in the previous drafts who are playing worse than the player we ended up with and we kept saying "Aren't we glad we have our guy instead of that guy!?"

Wouldn't it become tiring to you guys?

Should I start posting a new thread every time there's an article on Wesley Johnson being a bust because he was drafted 3rd in the draft where we landed Ed Davis 13th? This is what I mean when I bring up perspective. Some of you only seem to look at things from one perspective and only when the team has missed out on an opportunity.

Why would that be irritating? That would be awesome. The problem is we haven't had too many of those moments.

[Guy Smiley]

Hey Double Helix,

Why don't you start a before and after thread?

List all the players that were selected right before and right after the Raptors pick. I look forward to the celebration that discussion will cause.

[hype_2004]

* his PER is coming against second unit guys in ~20 high energy minutes, so ESPN is going overboard here.

But tbh, he is looking like a better defensive prospect than even Dwight and Oden. His lateral quickness and activity are insane for the type of mass he is carrying. Defensive instincts are way better than expected too. On top of quick feet, he has quick hands too. Still have my doubts about him on offense, Dwight showed much more of a post game at this stage, but yea...Raptors F'd up.

Agreed. He's 6'11 270 pounds but is so quick and agile for his size its insane. He is going to be on multiple all NBA Defense teams in his career.

He wasn't ever a bad kid. He's not a bad teammate or lazy. UCONN was just an utter mess last year and a terrible place for him. The mental makeup BS for Lyin' Bryan never made any sense, and it seemed to me he was just too lazy to actually find out more about AD since he was obsessed with Nash at that time.

The thing that impresses me is that this kid this man-child is 270 plus LBS and HE HASN'T EVEN STARTED WEIGHT TRAINING YET. No doubt in my mind he will be well over 300 lbs by the time he reaches his mid 20's you pair that with his unmatched agility, fluidity, handles and speed and you got yourself a monster of epic proportions this side of Shaquille O'neal. They said shaq/wilt type freak of nature specimen bigmen only comes once every generation or so, I think we have that in Andre Drummond.

[Greg Stink]

So what we got this.

It's true. It makes you appreciate what he did in the air so much more.

1) Consider the timing of all of this happening in a split second. He sees the shot go up and at this point in time he's not just on the other side of the rim... HE'S ON THE OTHER SIDE OF THE BACKBOARD!
2) He's like, "Whatever, I'm still going to go get that one."
3) He tucks his head a little so that he doesn't hit it against the backboard.
4) Turns mid-air and still somehow seems to be rising up higher and higher.
5) Catches it with one hand and dunks it cleanly.
6) He's still flying at incredible speed with his back fully exposed, and heading backward, and yet lands perfectly.

All that in a second. Incredible. It's not just the kid's leaping ability that's impressive; it's his body control and coordination.

Dr. J would be proud of it.

[YogiStewart]

Hey Double Helix,

Why don't you start a before and after thread?

List all the players that were selected right before and right after the Raptors pick. I look forward to the celebration that discussion will cause.

why don't you go on each team's board and create that thread.
with the exception of OKC and the Spurs, I think we'll all know how it will work.
Hell, do it for the Cavs for the last 3 drafts.

[VC-INJURY]

But where will he rank all-time for character??????

CHARACTER > EVERYTHING

[Guy Smiley]

Hey Double Helix,

Why don't you start a before and after thread?

List all the players that were selected right before and right after the Raptors pick. I look forward to the celebration that discussion will cause.

why don't you go on each team's board and create that thread.
with the exception of OKC and the Spurs, I think we'll all know how it will work.
Hell, do it for the Cavs for the last 3 drafts.

Considering BC's one saving grace is his "good drafting" I think it was a more than fair comment.

[fredericklove]

Drummond part 3 thread, knew this was gonna happen.

[Double Helix]

Why would that be irritating? That would be awesome. The problem is we haven't had too many of those moments.

2006 draft - Could have had Adam Morrison first overall. There was talk he was worth it back then. Drafted Bargnani.

2009 draft - Could have walked out of that draft with Jonny Flynn (No longer in the NBA) or Hasheem Thabeet since they were ranked high. Instead, walked out with DD.

2010 draft - Could have had Wesley Johnson, Aldrich, or Henry since they were all ranked higher. Drafted Ed Davis.

2012 draft - Could have drafted Jan Veseley or Biyombo (Who's D may not be special enough make up for his O) - Drafted Valanciunas

Things definitely could have been worse. We tend to get medium range results from our draft picks lately. If BC was a trader he'd be viewed as a guy that gets solid return on your investments but nothing spectacular. We never fully strike out and we never have the equivalent of an Apple company that completely surges either.

Although, in hindsight, I will be surprised if this year's pick (hopefully 9 or higher) ends up becoming as efficient as Drummond or Lowry (Both hovering above 21.0 in PER right now) so perhaps this year's draft pick will be BC's highest return from a draft pick yet.

[PRESTIGE]

At least this won't be as bad as 2004. Exact same situation, with the 8th pick, and we ended up picking Araujo. The very next pick is Iguodala who everybody knows was an All-Star last season. I remember when the 7th pick was announced I was going crazy telling my brother that we got Iguodala, a sick player who was going to be an All-Star, and then everybody knows what happened. I almost fractured my hand punching the wall, and called him a bust the second Araujo was drafted.

We may have missed out, but no matter what happens we can pretty much be assured that Ross won't end up playing in the Brazilian leagues after a few years.

[YogiStewart]

Considering BC's one saving grace is his "good drafting" I think it was a more than fair comment.

i think the argument is "acquiring tradeable assets" versus "getting the best player for the team", then yes, getting a centre with a questionable motor may have been the best way to go.

in the end, i'm perfectly fine with not taking Drummond. if we had a healthy Jonas, I wouldn't see the fit. and i am betting Casey said "i do not want any part of that headcase."

just my take

[The_Hater]

At least this won't be as bad as 2004. Exact same situation

There's no way of knowing this less than 3 months into their careers.

Plus don't forget the 2005 draft, CV over Bynum and Graham over Granger back to back. Babcock let the team following him pick 3 all-stars in a row.

[Double Helix]

As far as the Drummond discussion goes, I think it begins and ends with whether you're convinced he will climb a ton higher than how well he's started out of the gates. I will give you 2 reasons to think that he will probably maintain the points, rebounds, blocks pace he's on with increasing minutes year-after-year just as the following bigs did:

http://bkref.com/tiny/L17G0

Click on that link and head directly to the per 36 minute stats. Have a look at all three of those guys at roughly the same age.

Flash-forward 4-5 years later and Jordan's not all that different than how he entered the league. Amir's added a set shot and learned how to foul less. You can see that their per minute stats haven't really increased all that much over the years. It's entirely possible that Andre Drummond will plateau out as a C who gets you 11ppg/11rpg/2bpg during his prime. Don't get me wrong... that's still awesome and Ross would have to work a miracle to become more valuable as a 2 guard than that from a C. That said, I think a lot of the hype stems from the fact that people are looking at him at 19 and assuming he's going to make huge improvements. He may not. Those guys didn't make MASSIVE shifts on a per minute basis. Some bigs don't. Plus, if he does become another of the long line of bigs who entered the league without the ability to hit a free throw and never dramatically improves at it -- many haven't) then there's a good chance he will be hacked regularly as he starts playing more and more minutes. He may be the type of guy who costs his team games down the stretch someday by being hacked in the final 4 minutes of a close game. Can you imagine how frustrating that would be to watch?

[DG88]

Don't worry we're getting this guy