PG: Bed crap

C Court · Post #241 » by **C Court** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:32 pm

Clutch Carter wrote:Has DD ever hit a clutch shot?

No he has not. Our 'go-to' guy is a 'can't do guy'.

Big Shot · Post #242 » by **Big Shot** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:32 pm

lucky777s wrote:And on offense he created nothing except the same perimeter passes to 3pt shooters that Jose can do.

I agreed with this. Lowry could've done better than that. Without the penetration, he is not the Lowry I would like to have.

Having said that, he should be the least one we put the blame on. Momentum has been switched at the point when he was subbed in in the 3rdQ. He could somehow stop the bleeding but just couldn't heal the wound completely.

Raptorfan2012 · Post #243 » by **Raptorfan2012** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:00 pm

Only saw the 4th quarter and over time, but I saw Holiday abuse Lowry like no tomorrow. Where are all the Lowry fans/Calderon haters now? Offense during the OT was embarrassing, like the team had no clue what to do. I love Casey but he is not a very good strategist.. something has to be done.

jstarks10 · Post #244 » by **jstarks10** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:22 pm

Raptorfan2012 wrote:Only saw the 4th quarter and over time, but I saw Holiday abuse Lowry like no tomorrow. Where are all the Lowry fans/Calderon haters now? Offense during the OT was embarrassing, like the team had no clue what to do. I love Casey but he is not a very good strategist.. something has to be done.

I was also wondering why Lowry kept allowing Jrue to run past him...esp. the 2nd half. It could be that he had 4 fouls and he didn't want to get fouled out. But Lowry didn't seem confident at all yesterday. There were shots that he should have put up instead of passing it. He was 3/11 including the half court 1 sec buzzer shot he almost made in. Something was off, but he racked up 11 assists.
I actually wanted him to shoot more. Taking 10 shots (minus the half court) it unacceptable for a player like him, when players at his level usually take 20 shots. Offense was flowing better with Lowry in. Philly was shutting him down, prolly why he racked up 11 assists.

Like I said before, the main problems with this game is:

- the 1st unit at the 3rd qtr. There was no offense and defense.
- Taking out ross at the 4th. He was on FIRE. Let him take the shots! Every rookie is going to have an explosive game and this was his.
- Where was Lowry/Acy combo? These two were breaking the Philly's offense and all of sudden, these two stopped running their high PnR plays.
- Calderon....why the hell did he pass it to AA who was so close to the damn baseline and there were 2 defenders lurking right behind him. - This was the main reason why we lost.
- At OT - this whole team was a mess.
- The last play - DD thought the play was for him. He was suppose to pass it right back to Lowry while he gave him a screen.

Post #245 » by **Undefeated** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:37 pm

I'm sorry, but Jrue only went off on Lowry in OT after playing almost the entire second half. And Lowry was the reason Ross had all those open looks because of his ability to get into the paint almost at will. Calderon didn't even step foot once in the paint last night. Yikes! But the main reason is I don't know why the Raptors keep telling the bigs to show hard instead of dropping back to contain the dribble penetration. It's been twice this season that a PG has step thru and split the Raptors' PnR defense like hot butter. First Brandon Knight now Jrue Holiday.

lucky777s · Post #246 » by **lucky777s** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:44 pm

Illuminati_ wrote:
lol there is no pg who can lockup guards by himself

I totally agree

Thats asking too much from a pg

and yet this board constantly bashes Jose for the exact same results

most you can ask is for them to contain the dribble and he did that.

He certainly did not. Both Jrue and Turner got wherever they wanted to go every single time. All the way to the rim or an easy pull up J over the shorter Lowry. He was completely ineffective.

jstarks10 · Post #247 » by **jstarks10** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:50 pm

^ So you're saying Calderon could have done a better job?

Green Backpack · Post #248 » by **Green Backpack** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:27 pm

So who wants Bargnani back? ..lol

lucky777s · Post #249 » by **lucky777s** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:52 pm

jstarks10 wrote:^ So you're saying Calderon could have done a better job?

He could not have done any worse in this game. He would have been able to feed Ross and AA for the same shots and likely got the bigs more involved as well. Probably not had some of the really bad TOs Lowry had as well. The bounce pass Thad Young stole and took for a layup was a huge play.

When DD went cold and could not attack the rim Jose was out there with no real weapons. Just the bigs on PnR. Fields has no business playing. It was the lack of scoring that saw the lead go from 17 at half to 9 when Lowry and AA came in. Jose had made a 3pt shot but DD, Fields, Amir and ED all missed shots as PHI looked like a different team and brought their best D.

Nothing changed with Lowry on the floor. Even Sherm commented on that. But AA and Ross hit some big shots to keep the Raps in the game. Sure AA chucked but people ignore that without his scoring the Sixers would have expanded their lead earlier.

Again, Lowry did not lose the game. Jose did not lose the game. Sixers won the game and Raps could not respond to what they brought in the second half. But its possible Jose could have rode out that 3rd quarter with more than a 1 pt lead if Casey put in AA and Ross for DD and Fields. And the Raps could have possibly won this game if they split the PG minutes better.

jstarks10 · Post #250 » by **jstarks10** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:32 pm

^Here's the problem with Calderon....he is a perimeter passer. Plain and simple. He does not drive to the basket, cannot penetrate offense, he doesn't have a lot of moves to create a shot for himself....so he is a very limited player. He can only do high PnR near the 3 pt line because he cannot drive into the lane. Even if he does, he does not draw defenders into him. He is not a playmaker. Can we agree up to this point?

Calderon is a horrible defender, that's why Lowry was put in to the game early to take on Jrue. Lowry was doing a pretty good job defending Jrue until the 4th. Jrue had about 17 pts until the 4th, until things went sour. I'm guessing Lowry didn't play too aggressive on Jrue because he already had 4 fouls.

And I will have to disagree with your when you said nothing changed with Lowry on the floor. And you said "Even Sherm commented on that' like if this guy was the God of basketball. So whatever he says is true? Lowry created plays allowing players like Ross, Acy, AA to get good shots. Lowry had 11 assists....and he only took 10 shots (minus the half court buzzer shot) in 30+ minutes. Is that still acting selfish?

Lowry was able to keep the lead for the Raps, until Calderon came in. Raps were up by 2, less than a minute left, and they were inbounding the ball. Who messes it up? Dont give me that AA was fouled and refs didnt call it. We all know you cannot rely on the refs in the last minute of the game. It was a terrible decision by Calderon to pass it to AA.

"Possible for Jose could have rode out that 3rd with more than 1 pt lead?" Jrue was eating this dude alive on the court and creating plays off his poor defense. Raps may have been down going to the 4th if Calderon kept playing.

It was the coach's mistake for taking out Ross and limiting plays for Acy, when these 2 were doing so well.

theskydrops · Post #251 » by **theskydrops** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:59 pm

We need Bargs. B team leader.

Illuminati_ · Post #252 » by **Illuminati_** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:20 pm

Big Shot wrote:
lucky777s wrote:And on offense he created nothing except the same perimeter passes to 3pt shooters that Jose can do.

I agreed with this. Lowry could've done better than that. Without the penetration, he is not the Lowry I would like to have.

Having said that, he should be the least one we put the blame on. Momentum has been switched at the point when he was subbed in in the 3rdQ. He could somehow stop the bleeding but just couldn't heal the wound completely.

By now bro we have to see that Lucky777 is either a troll or the biggest calderon supporter there is. Lowry's passive play in the 2nd half has a lot more to do with coaching. Somebody obviusly reigned him in and had him playwithin the "system". Sure jose could have brought that to the table...but he would have been a major liability on the other.

lucky777s · Post #253 » by **lucky777s** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:01 pm

Illuminati_ wrote:By now bro we have to see that Lucky777 is either a troll or the biggest calderon supporter there is. Lowry's passive play in the 2nd half has a lot more to do with coaching. Somebody obviusly reigned him in and had him playwithin the "system". Sure jose could have brought that to the table...but he would have been a major liability on the other.

Why are Lowry fanboys so butthurt when he plays badly and have to blame everyone and anyone for his struggles?

Coaches caused him to play passively? Where is the proof of this?

And how could Jose have been any more of a liability on defense. Lowry did not make a single stop other than the flop on Turner. Every time a Sixer drove on him he was beaten easily. No different than Jose. And frankly no different than 98% of PGs in the league could do.

Lowry SHOULD be better on D. But he's not in actual games.

I am all for starting Lowry cause winning is not the goal this year. Its an evaluation year now. But the story so many are trying to sell on this board about the greatness of Lowry is a total joke. He has not proven himself to be a great PG at either end and is a marginal upgrade at best so far.

jstarks10 · Post #254 » by **jstarks10** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:04 pm

^we're not selling the "greatness of Lowry"...we're just saying Lowry is better than Calderon, but you keep saying Calderon is better when he clearly is not.

Tacoma · Post #255 » by **Tacoma** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:19 pm

jstarks10 wrote:^we're not selling the "greatness of Lowry"...we're just saying Lowry is better than Calderon, but you keep saying Calderon is better when he clearly is not.

Well... Casey also believes in Caldy enough to make him a starter over Lowry, so it's clearly not clear. What is clear, however, is that BC gave up a Top 10, possibly Top 5, lottery pick for what his coach now believes is a back up PG.

redred9 · Post #256 » by **redred9** » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:23 pm

This loss left a really bad taste in my mouth. I didn't watch much of the O/T because you could see our body language was pretty terrible and we were playing 'not to lose' rather than aggressively trying to win.

BAD
- Lowry to be honest, is our best player, but he is a FATASS. Maybe he is out of shape from so much sitting around. I have no doubt he'll be far and away our best next season for his contract year (unless he's traded for Jennings or whatnot) but the longer the game went on, the worse he looked.

- Demar Derozan. I usually defend this kid but he looked incredibly passive out there, like he was the rookie. How can he have no desire to take it to the rim when that is actually one of the few things he does well? Instead he took soft little jumpers. A pathetic 2nd half.

- Calderon can be a good player but sometimes with his inability to create, our offence becomes incredibly predictable. If the other team defends the pnr well he becomes borderline useless outside of nailing occasional jumpers. He needs a creator next to him to really flourish and Derozan/Fields are certainly not that.

- Coach Casey. Why remove Terrence Ross late in the game when he was the one guy hitting shots and, unlike Derozan, actually wanted the ball? Why play Lowry without a break for such a long period when a) he was huffing/puffing b) we have Calderon collecting splinters. Why play Alan Anderson so much over our long term investments? Why start Fields when he is rubbish and no one guards him? Why could we not even draw up a freakin' inbounds play? Why take so long to make adjustments when Philly cut the lead in half? Ridiculous.

GOOD
- Ed Davis bounce back game. Energy on both ends and his jumper was falling again.

- Terrence Ross. Baller with tonnes of energy and no conscience at all. I have to admit, he doesn't look like a bad draft pick at all.

Laowai · Post #257 » by **Laowai** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 1:20 am

Tacoma wrote:
jstarks10 wrote:^we're not selling the "greatness of Lowry"...we're just saying Lowry is better than Calderon, but you keep saying Calderon is better when he clearly is not.

Well... Casey also believes in Caldy enough to make him a starter over Lowry, so it's clearly not clear. What is clear, however, is that BC gave up a Top 10, possibly Top 5, lottery pick for what his coach now believes is a back up PG.

Casey should have been the 1st coach fired this year.

jstarks10 · Post #258 » by **jstarks10** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 2:40 am

Tacoma wrote:
jstarks10 wrote:^we're not selling the "greatness of Lowry"...we're just saying Lowry is better than Calderon, but you keep saying Calderon is better when he clearly is not.

Well... Casey also believes in Caldy enough to make him a starter over Lowry, so it's clearly not clear. What is clear, however, is that BC gave up a Top 10, possibly Top 5, lottery pick for what his coach now believes is a back up PG.

Clearly, you know next to nothing about basketball. Clearly clear.

lucky777s · Post #259 » by **lucky777s** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 4:26 am

jstarks10 wrote:^we're not selling the "greatness of Lowry"...we're just saying Lowry is better than Calderon, but you keep saying Calderon is better when he clearly is not.

I don't think I have ever said Jose is 'better'. I have said that neither is going to take this team as constructed by BC anywhere and it likely tops out at 30-35 wins. And I have said that starting Calderon all year could win you a few more meaningless games because he seems to fit better with the pieces we have. And I have said Lowry should start, after a few losses with Jose starting, to protect Lowry from criticism and evaluate him fairly.

I did not know much about Lowry prior to this year. Had not seen much of him or he did not stand out. He was advertised on this board as a huge upgrade at both ends and he has not been that at all. Not sure why that offends you and causes you to paint me as some big Jose fan. Lowry is probably capable of being a much better defender but if he is not bringing it then so what.

I said way back in 07 that whichever PG got traded, the other would soon feel the wrath of the fans because neither was good enough to carry the whole load and produce what that tandem could produce. I was right then. And I think I am right now based on what Lowry has shown to date.

There is so much Jose hate on the boards that if I try to be a voice of reason I come off looking like I am defending him when I am really just pointing out that Lowry is no more effective in the end. I support neither guy as the LT answer.

jstarks10 · Post #260 » by **jstarks10** » Sun Jan 20, 2013 5:01 am

omg ok fine i dont know if you said the exact word 'better'. But you are implying that Calderon is better than Lowry. You constantly criticize Lowry, while praising Calderon. I never said anything about any of these two leading a team to win more than 35 games.
I think Lowry is better, so I am constantly criticizing Calderon with his limited abilities.