Derozan's BS "work ethic"

[Kabookalu]

1. Show me an above average starting SG whose best weapon is his post-game. I'll tell you how many of them are there in the league: None. Literally zero.

Didn't see that you said "best weapon". However I still stand by my choices of Kobe and Wade, who are an automatic two points when they post up.

2. You're saying that he's taking it step-by-step. Sorry but I don't just see it and I doubt any unbiased fan does either. If he's taking it step-by-step, then
a) that means he's solely focusing on one area at a time. I haven't seen DeRozan improve in ANY area, much less one, since his sophomore season. Sure, he's had strides where he seemed like he's improved at certain facets of the game, but he's reverted to his old playing ways soon after (Remember Bargnani's rebounding stretches? Well, yeah.)

Well you're not paying attention. He's improved his handles a bit, has worked on his ball skills which are still mediocre though, and his post game has improved a lot.

b) WHY DOESN'T HE CHANGE HIS FOCUS TO AN AREA OF PLAY THAT HE DEFINITELY LACKS AND ACTUALLY NEEDS TO IMPROVETO BECOME A GOOD PLAYER AT HIS POSITION, I.E. SHOOTING? Sorry for the rant but this is annoying to say the least. You can fix your shot in just one offseason. It's absolutely doable. Luol Deng has done it. Marvin Williams has done it. Jose Calderon has done it. Kyle Lowry has done it. Andre Iguodala has done it. And these examples are just off the top of my head. There's absolutely no reason why a guy with supposedly great work ethic like DeRozan can't do it. But he's delusional. This is a guy that just doesn't come to terms with his own limitations. Maybe his consistent summer play with scrubs *cough Drew League cough* leads him to believe that he's better than he actually is, IDK to be honest.

Sooooo many things wrong with this post. Calderon was always a good shooter, he just needed to adjust. How many seasons did it take for Lowry, Williams, and Deng to improve their shooting? It didn't happen overnight. Iggy still sucks as a shooter, I can't believe you actually brought him up.

Sorry but you sound eerily similar to those Bargnani apologists.

At least I have eyes. You've just shown me you know nothing about basketball.

[hkr]

He's being scouted. He was nailing jumpshots off of off ball movement in his second year. Teams responded by cutting him off on curls. He was killing players in the post. Teams are shadowing and double teaming him. And he's responded by trying to work on his ball skills, adding a short pull up jumper, a floater, improving his passing out of the post.

The greatest concern for DeRozan is if his work ethic can ever outrun teams quickly and knowing how to adjust to him.

All players are being scouted and coaches spend hours to plan out strategies stop the opponents. However despite all the effort, rookies in general still do improve in efficiency.

Demar on the other hand, hasn't improved, for a very simple reason - he chose to concentrate on the most inefficient scoring weapon in basketball, the 2 point jump shot. It's very difficult to be consistently efficient in scoring if you don't have three point range or scoring near the basket, and Demar in 2013 hasn't developed 3 point range and gotten more reluctant at getting to the basket.

Demar has gotten better at something but that actually made his scoring efficiency worse because he chose a wrong thing to get better and decided to use it more frequently. This is a classic case of visual style over substance.

[Kabookalu]

All players are being scouted and coaches spend hours to plan out strategies stop the opponents. However despite all the effort, rookies in general still do improve in efficiency.

Demar on the other hand, hasn't improved, for a very simple reason - he chose to concentrate on the most inefficient scoring weapon in basketball, the 2 point jump shot. It's very difficult to be consistently efficient in scoring if you don't have three point range or scoring near the basket, and Demar in 2013 hasn't developed 3 point range and gotten more reluctant at getting to the basket.

Demar has gotten better at something but that actually made his scoring efficiency worse because he chose a wrong thing to get better and decided to use it more frequently. This is a classic case of visual style over substance.

I do agree with you here. It annoys me that out of Kobe's playbook he chooses to copy the one aspect of Kobe that has deterred his legacy. As for attacking the basket he hasn't been getting calls at all, so he's found ways to go around that, such as adding a short stop jumper and a floater. These were two things that earlier in the season I wished he would work on and I'm very glad to see that he's working on them. The results have been awful but it's at least a step in the right direction.

As for 3 point shooting yes I do of course want him to be better in that regard, but I do see improvements. Before it looked like none of his 3 pointers looked like they were ever going in. Now he's looked at least competent in that area, despite his efficiency there. I don't like using statistical improvement as the main measure of improvement because contrary to what an earlier poster said it doesn't happen overnight. Kyle Lowry for example was working hard on his shot ever since Memphis and that fruit took a long time to bloom, the last two seasons in Houston and now in Toronto.

[DellCurry4Life]

The issue isnt Demar's work ethic, or even his talent level, its the ridiculous unjust expectations this franchise/fans put on players. Demar is not a top tier SG, no question about it. But instead of that being accepted and appreciating his strengths, he is criticized for what he is not. Part of this is due to the low-quality teams we have put out since 01 and part is due to poor coaching in the past.

If Demar was used properly (i.e. ran through screens in a Rip Hamilton Detroit style) I think we would all be much more appreciative as to what he brings. He could focus on simply being freed up by the team and focus on knocking down the mid-range jumper and/or driving at the basket. Instead, he/we expect to be able to give him the ball, he take his player 1 on 1 and him to be able to produce. It just isnt his game. But instead of maximizing his strength and minimizing his weaknesses (i.e. dribbling, isolating, etc.) the team sets him up for failure.

The only positive is that we seem to be shifting our focus to a more balanced team oriented approach which may help bring more appreciation for Demar's skills if we can successfully fill out this team. Im a fan of BPA during the draft, but taking Ross made sense from a system building perspective. As we were glaringly thin at one area.

If you want to look at this team and what it could be grown as you have a solid front court rotation of Jonas, Ed, Amir, even Bargnani if he is utilized as instant offense off the bench. At the 2/3 you have Demar/Terrence as a good starting point and at the point you have lowry/Calderon. Each part of this core can thrive under a team oriented approach. The missing part is something that we havent had since vince, a penetrating 2/3 that can get to the basket and beat his man off the dribble. If we can add this, we may have a balanced line-up that can compete following a team based approach (i.e. Pacers).

I disagree with the sentiment that the team sets up Demar for failure. By giving him as many minutes and shots as possible, this team has done everything to try and make Demar a star SG. The "pressure off" version of his career would've been to develop him like Ed, right? That would mean 20-25mpg off the bench his first handful of years until he deserved more. Well Demar's PPG with Ed's MP in his first 3 seasons, would've been the following: 9.8ppg (rookie), 11.4ppg (sophmore), 11.0ppg (third season). Considering his inefficiency and the nothing else he adds to the game (no d, no passing, no spacing), those numbers in 20-25mpg would've made Demar a widely considered bust and future journeyman. Instead of his career 13.9 PER and 12.4 PER this season and last one respectively being ignored in favor of "but his ppg!", once he dropped to 10-11ppg in 20-25mpg, it would be widely accepted that he is every bit as mediocre as that number

The massive role and PPG the Raptors have given Derozan because of the hype he had coming in, has in fact hid most of his flaws. He's a SG who's subpar for his position at shooting, ball-handling, passing and defense. He's an average athlete for his position and has weak feel for the game. What does this guy have going for him compared to his position? His role is a slasher, except he has a weak first step, weak ball-handling and sucks at drawing fouls.

I never said anything about the amount of touches he's been given as an issue. Its about he is utilized. A good coach would look at his players, determine how/when they succeed on the court and put them in those positions. Prior to Casey (and he's not exactly killing it in this area) no coach has done that for our talent. Just because he is a sg, doesnt mean he has to be a killer iso player which is why I talked about using him like Rip. Also, I said he isnt a top tier sg. He is probably best suited as a 6th man, but because our team is so horrible he has/will never be put in that position. Instead he will be tossed out there as either a top 2 in the league, or someone who is a horrible waste of money and space and needs to be moved.

[Hero]

Basically since Bargnani is out, everyone has turned Demar into their new whipping boy.

[Indeed]

Basically since Bargnani is out, everyone has turned Demar into their new whipping boy.

The criticism are the same for both players, if you are blaming one, you should blame the other for the exact problem, unless you are biased to one of them.

[Truthrising]

Basically since Bargnani is out, everyone has turned Demar into their new whipping boy.

They're both the same type of player, 1 dimensional that's inefficient and offer very little of defence and are being paid 10 mil/yr ..what's your point?

[Indeed]

Basically since Bargnani is out, everyone has turned Demar into their new whipping boy.

They're both the same type of player, 1 dimensional that's inefficient and offer very little of defence and are being paid 10 mil/yr ..what's your point?

I wouldn't say they are 1 dimensional/inefficient, but our team lacked talent. When we have Lowry and Amir playing with them, we were a better team. We need to fill the SF (defensive with shooting) and 6th man (capable of creating off the dribble), while improve our overall defense. However, our current talent level is just not enough.

[Scase]

Basically since Bargnani is out, everyone has turned Demar into their new whipping boy.

They're both the same type of player, 1 dimensional that's inefficient and offer very little of defence and are being paid 10 mil/yr ..what's your point?

I wouldn't say they are 1 dimensional/inefficient, but our team lacked talent. When we have Lowry and Amir playing with them, we were a better team. We need to fill the SF (defensive with shooting) and 6th man (capable of creating off the dribble), while improve our overall defense. However, our current talent level is just not enough.

They are both incredibly 1 dimensional and inefficient. Both being bad at that 1 dimension as well.