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Derozan's BS "work ethic"

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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#41 » by carl_english » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:27 pm

I'm glad to see you've all come around. He's here for the next four years, THX BC!
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#42 » by HangTime » Sat Jan 19, 2013 4:51 pm

Unless the guy we draft is a bonafided star, we should not have individual pre-draft workouts.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#43 » by raptorfan416 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:01 pm

Beardman wrote:
raptorfan416 wrote:
Tanger wrote:I don't doubt he works hard. The problem is that players don't get significantly better after their rookie contract (so 3 years or so). Paying him $10M thinking he will become a $10M player is ridiculous. He is going to be $4-5M overpaid.

Seriously, when has a guy taken a huge leap after their rookie deal? BC did this with Andrea and DeMar. Neither is an allstar level guy and that was obvious before the time came to extend either.
so you blame demar for being overpaid ? :lol: that's the problem with sport fans, they're quick to blame a player for not playing up to the contract that was thrown at them. what do you expect him to say no thanks BC keep the money ? demar is what he is, he's playing to the best of his god given ability. I'd be mad if he was just standing around every game and not doing anything. this is is skill set, look what was said about him when he came out of college... people on here are expecting this guy to be on the same level with these top players in this league when he was NEVER expected to be that good... i really don't see why people are going off about demar's play. demar is not an all star, if he make's the all star team i would say he's over achieving.. you can't put demar on the same level with brags and players like kwame brown. those players were expected to be star's. coming out of the Italian league and collage these guy showed they had what it takes to run a team, then they came into the NBA and just relax and couldn't cut it. demar on the other was never expected to lead a team or be a go to player so i don't understand why all of a sudden people expect him to be some kind of elite player when nothing from his college career indicated that he would be that kind of player.. some people on here are starting to sound like the elderly, b*tching and crying after every loss, its lowry's fault, it demar's fault, it andrea's fault, it's casey fault, NO THE TEAM IS CRAP, WE LACK TALENT< MORE THAN 95% OF THE TEAMS WE'VE BEATEN WERE SUB 500 TEAMS :lol: SO WHAT ARE YOU SHOCKED ABOUT ? I DON'T GET IT.

You're basketball knowledge is being exposed as mere, if you think Kwame came out of college and "relaxed" in the league. He came out of HS and laid an egg, in fact the pick was questioned from day 1.

You're touching on a lot of things but not really making a point. If you pick from 1-10 in the draft then you're picking a player in the lottery. You talk as if we should have written off DeRozan from day 1 because he was drafted 9th ? LOL WTF ? you do know there have been players drafted past the lottery who were still projected to be stars right ?

It's wrong that we expected him to improve moderately 4 years 8000 minutes in ?
how am i being exposed ? :lol: because i made a mistake and said brown came out of college :lol: seems more like your nit picking my post... not only did i spoke on derozen being picked 9th and not projected to be a star but i also gave a clear explanation as to why he was not expected to be a go to player.. your whole post is a reach...their were players that we're picked past the lottery that were projected to be star's because it all depends on how deep the draft is buthow many of those players turn out to be star's and what are the odds ? fact is we're talking about DD who was picked 9th and nobody projected him to be a star, THAT'S THE FACT OF THE MATTER! he was supposed to be a role player for bosh and andrea. NOBODY EVER USED THE WORD STAR WHEN DD WAS DRAFTED.. nice try but your whole post seems like a reach, more like one form member trying to prove he knows more about the sport than another forum member without actually making a valid point. what is your point ?
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#44 » by StopitLeo » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:27 pm

raptorfan416 wrote:
Tanger wrote:I don't doubt he works hard. The problem is that players don't get significantly better after their rookie contract (so 3 years or so). Paying him $10M thinking he will become a $10M player is ridiculous. He is going to be $4-5M overpaid.

Seriously, when has a guy taken a huge leap after their rookie deal? BC did this with Andrea and DeMar. Neither is an allstar level guy and that was obvious before the time came to extend either.
so you blame demar for being overpaid ? :lol: that's the problem with sport fans, they're quick to blame a player for not playing up to the contract that was thrown at them. what do you expect him to say no thanks BC keep the money ? demar is what he is, he's playing to the best of his god given ability. I'd be mad if he was just standing around every game and not doing anything. this is is skill set, look what was said about him when he came out of college... people on here are expecting this guy to be on the same level with these top players in this league when he was NEVER expected to be that good... i really don't see why people are going off about demar's play. demar is not an all star, if he make's the all star team i would say he's over achieving.. you can't put demar on the same level with brags and players like kwame brown. those players were expected to be star's. coming out of the Italian league and collage these guy showed they had what it takes to run a team, then they came into the NBA and just relax and couldn't cut it. demar on the other was never expected to lead a team or be a go to player so i don't understand why all of a sudden people expect him to be some kind of elite player when nothing from his college career indicated that he would be that kind of player.. some people on here are starting to sound like the elderly, b*tching and crying after every loss, its lowry's fault, it demar's fault, it andrea's fault, it's casey fault, NO THE TEAM IS CRAP, WE LACK TALENT< MORE THAN 95% OF THE TEAMS WE'VE BEATEN WERE SUB 500 TEAMS :lol: SO WHAT ARE YOU SHOCKED ABOUT ? I DON'T GET IT.


Where did I blame DeMar for being overpaid? Seriously, please tell me. If anything I defended DeMar's work ethic. Work ethic determines how close a player gets to their ceiling (i.e., full potential). DeMar's ceiling was just never as high as some people (Colangelo included) thought/hoped/dreamed/deluded.

We both agree that DeMar is not an all-star calibre player. Unfortunately, management decided to pay him, and Andrea, as if they are all-stars. That is the problem.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#45 » by raptorfan416 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 5:37 pm

Tanger wrote:
raptorfan416 wrote:
Tanger wrote:I don't doubt he works hard. The problem is that players don't get significantly better after their rookie contract (so 3 years or so). Paying him $10M thinking he will become a $10M player is ridiculous. He is going to be $4-5M overpaid.

Seriously, when has a guy taken a huge leap after their rookie deal? BC did this with Andrea and DeMar. Neither is an allstar level guy and that was obvious before the time came to extend either.
so you blame demar for being overpaid ? :lol: that's the problem with sport fans, they're quick to blame a player for not playing up to the contract that was thrown at them. what do you expect him to say no thanks BC keep the money ? demar is what he is, he's playing to the best of his god given ability. I'd be mad if he was just standing around every game and not doing anything. this is is skill set, look what was said about him when he came out of college... people on here are expecting this guy to be on the same level with these top players in this league when he was NEVER expected to be that good... i really don't see why people are going off about demar's play. demar is not an all star, if he make's the all star team i would say he's over achieving.. you can't put demar on the same level with brags and players like kwame brown. those players were expected to be star's. coming out of the Italian league and collage these guy showed they had what it takes to run a team, then they came into the NBA and just relax and couldn't cut it. demar on the other was never expected to lead a team or be a go to player so i don't understand why all of a sudden people expect him to be some kind of elite player when nothing from his college career indicated that he would be that kind of player.. some people on here are starting to sound like the elderly, b*tching and crying after every loss, its lowry's fault, it demar's fault, it andrea's fault, it's casey fault, NO THE TEAM IS CRAP, WE LACK TALENT< MORE THAN 95% OF THE TEAMS WE'VE BEATEN WERE SUB 500 TEAMS :lol: SO WHAT ARE YOU SHOCKED ABOUT ? I DON'T GET IT.


Where did I blame DeMar for being overpaid? Seriously, please tell me. If anything I defended DeMar's work ethic. Work ethic determines how close a player gets to their ceiling (i.e., full potential). DeMar's ceiling was just never as high as some people (Colangelo included) thought/hoped/dreamed/deluded.

We both agree that DeMar is not an all-star calibre player. Unfortunately, management decided to pay him, and Andrea, as if they are all-stars. That is the problem.
i misunderstood your post earlier, but i agree with everything you just said.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#46 » by LLJ » Sat Jan 19, 2013 6:09 pm

It's not about the work ethic in this case...it's about the talent.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#47 » by Spicy P » Sat Jan 19, 2013 7:12 pm

darth_federer wrote:BC said this a couple of years ago when talking about his work ethic. It isnt how hard you work but how smart you work. There is no doubt that Derozan puts in the time but is he being efficient? In some ways its counterproductive for him to spend 3 hours in a gym after a game late at night when he has a game the next day.


Exactly. It's not how many hours you put in, it's what you put into the hours. Quality over quantity.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#48 » by Danchan » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:05 pm

it's fun making fun of the useless kid in school who never fights back (demar will never prove me wrong by playing up to his contract). Frankly now that he season is over I invest myself in watching him fail on court because a) I want to validate my good judgement b) the more he embarrasses himself the sooner he gets chased out of town with his contract.

And demar was marketed as a star from day 1 don't kid yourself... All the tweet all the spearheading the young guns promotion... All the talk from him every off season I am going HAM... Offense and defense is easy to me now that I am confident. The compton kid who emulates kobe... Lets not pretend this guy doesn't enjoy the fame and enjoys the Kobe comparison every once in a while. Everything coupled with his below average skills in SG turns my stomach.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#49 » by Tofubeque » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:12 pm

Would you like him to work hard at changing his genetics so he can have NBA caliber explosiveness and lateral quickness? Would you like him to grow his arms longer so he can finish contested plays around the rim?

He plays the way he does because of who he is. Big for a SG, too small for SF, too slow to attack the basket; he's going to rely on screens and jumpers. He's Rip Hamilton without the shooting stroke and elite endurance.

If you don't think he has improved since his rookie year, then you haven't been watching. But he can't improve to levels that are beyond his physical capacity to achieve. Unless he develops an elite mid-range game, savvy understanding of basketball, and a 3-pt shooting stroke, he's a low-ceiling player. And even those areas you can argue are largely a matter of talent.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#50 » by Tacoma » Sat Jan 19, 2013 8:35 pm

I'll go with the majority that DeRozan's work ethic off the court is beyond reproach. However, his on court work ethic leaves something to be desired as many times for long stretches (sometimes whole games) he disappears like a wallflower.

DeRozan is like the opposite of Allen Iverson. AI had oodles of talent but hated practice and his off court work ethic was suspect, but when playing a game, he gave 110% and left everything on the court.

DD, on the other hand, has limited talent and loves to practice, pick up games, whatever. But on the court he floats and disappears and I can't recall a game where when the buzzer sounded I thought, man, he gave everything he had, he's exhausted. DD isn't that.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#51 » by Sn0wman » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:19 pm

DD's work ethic is a myth, guy sucks A**, I don't see any improvement on his jump shot, his handles or his 3pt shot. He's a bench scrub on every other team, he's non-existence in the 4th. Trade this guy already, how much longer are some of you guys keep gonna be defending him?
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#52 » by timdunkit » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:23 pm

darth_federer wrote:BC said this a couple of years ago when talking about his work ethic. It isnt how hard you work but how smart you work. There is no doubt that Derozan puts in the time but is he being efficient? In some ways its counterproductive for him to spend 3 hours in a gym after a game late at night when he has a game the next day.


I will take that a step further.

I actually think Derozan works pretty smart (considering how much the franchise has put into him and how much time he has spent with assistant coaches(if DD isn't smart then yuo hope the assistants can rectify that)).

But at the end of the day, some guys are able to translate their work ethic into game scenerios and some aren't. Take a look at Lebron/Durant (I know their superstars) but their able to improve their games on a year to year basis. Lebron didn't have a post game in 2011, he has one now. He was 27? and had spent 8 years in the league without a post game. But in a year, he was able to learn and transfer the skills on the court.

Derozan needs to take that step where he can translate what he learns in practice to game scenerios. Some of it we have seen but the big steps he needs to take hasn't occurred yet and might never occur.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#53 » by zippy » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:25 pm

The reality of Derozan is he's a poor mans Jason Richardson. He won't be the next VC, nor will he ever be similar to the likes of Kobe. His extension was done way too soon, and I called that from the beggining however our organization seems to have a hard on for "character" and marketable guys. So they'll continue to market DD like he's the next Jesus Christ until he really flops hard (to their expectations) and similarly to Bargs he'll become hated by the fans, his trade value will drop and we'll be stuck with yet another dumba$$.

I'm sick of this organization as a whole. And the fanbase comes as a close second, I've never seen a more skitzofrenic fan base in my life. I remember reading this board when Casey got hired and everyone wanted to throw a welcome parade for the guy now the majority of you hate him. Bargani used to be the pride and future of this team when most of u wanted Bosh out.. LOL smh.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#54 » by maxpower88 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:27 pm

Tacoma wrote:I'll go with the majority that DeRozan's work ethic off the court is beyond reproach. However, his on court work ethic leaves something to be desired as many times for long stretches (sometimes whole games) he disappears like a wallflower.

DeRozan is like the opposite of Allen Iverson. AI had oodles of talent but hated practice and his off court work ethic was suspect, but when playing a game, he gave 110% and left everything on the court.

DD, on the other hand, has limited talent and loves to practice, pick up games, whatever. But on the court he floats and disappears and I can't recall a game where when the buzzer sounded I thought, man, he gave everything he had, he's exhausted. DD isn't that.


This.

To add to that, I think he's not confident enough in his game to demand the ball. Also his off-the-ball movement needs improvement, I've noticed he stands around the perimeter too often waiting instead of moving and creating space for himself.

He needs to start asserting himself more on the court, instead of going missing after making mistakes he needs to play through them. Keep trying to get open, keep asking for the ball, keep driving to the rim. You can tell he's lost confidence, he rarely tries to drive anymore.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#55 » by Death Knight » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:42 pm

I'm reading some of this stuff and I just wonder where some of you have been. ONLY NOWWWWWW..........................do some people come around thinking he won't be Kobe or even a Vince Carter? Only now????? Jesus christ! Were some of your expectations really that high??????? Welcome to the light some of you people!!! But you still have a long way to come around. Not until you have come to the realization that he is no more than a rotational player on any given good team. I called him a rotational player since last season and DeMar is leaning more and more towards that kind of player. On a bad team, you have starters like DeMar. Good teams don't have DeMar type of players starting or playing significant minutes for them. Just basing off of what I saw in the playoffs from the past few years, I would go through every single one of those teams and wonder where would DeRozan fit. For some of the lower seeds, the best scenario I came up with was being in the rotation. For the 4 elite teams who made the conference finals, I had trouble pencilling in DeMar in their rotations. In other words, he would be the 10-12th man at best and likely won't even see the floor.

You take a look at Miami and you can knock their bench all you want, but DeMar wouldn't even have a role with them. All the guys that are surrounding LeBron, Wade, and Bosh are 3pt threats. Chalmers starting. But then guys coming off the bench like Allen, Miller, Lewis, James Jones, Battier............they're role is to spread the floor for the big 3. DeMar would not fit in and won't even sniff the floor.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#56 » by StatsMan99 » Sat Jan 19, 2013 9:47 pm

What I hate most is when he's passed the ball on the perimeter, and dribbles it pretty much in place (maybe a step forward, step back, step left, step right), and then just passes it back to the PG on the perimeter. He's accomplished nothing doing that (hasn't attracted a double team, gotten the defense to shift, etc.). He's just killed some seconds and said to the PG "here you go, take it back".
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#57 » by Coach Smiley » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:40 pm

hard work means little if it's not smart work, spending his summers playing the the Drew League is not smart work
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#58 » by Archerbro » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:46 pm

work ethic doesn't mean alot if you're practicing the wrong methods continually.

I remember an espn article explaining what Dirk did with his mentor Holger (german last name, not gonna attempt to spell correctly).

He basically stated his methods worked because they're correct. hard work can only get you so far.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#59 » by Kabookalu » Sat Jan 19, 2013 10:58 pm

There's nothing BS about DeRozan's work ethic. He came in the rawest player in his draft class and has worked hard to improve his game. If his numbers are consistent with his career averages that's not reflective of a lack of work ethic, not at all. Use your eyes, he's improved his game significantly since coming into the league. Whether it's polishing up here and there, improving his jumpshot (remember when he couldn't shoot at all?), adding dimensions to his game, etc.

The problem with so many of you here is that you never take into consideration that the league has adjusted to him while he's improving. He was mainly an off the ball player in his second year and teams have learned to guard him better off of screens. He fell off his third year but learned to use his on ball skills better. This year I think has been a disaster in terms of his development; he's trying to be a playmaker and that has been a massive failure so far; I wish Casey would abandon this project.

If there's any concerns you have with him, it's you have to wonder if he can ever escape not being raw. As he gets older his work ethic won't show as much merit, but the league can always adjust to him. And even though I'm cheering for him that's always been a concern of mine. However he's found his strength this season in his post game, so his future is entirely dependent on that aspect of his game.
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Re: Derozan's BS "work ethic" 

Post#60 » by Beardman » Sat Jan 19, 2013 11:12 pm

The easiest solution is him bulking up about 10-15 lbs muscle and moving to SF full time. All of a sudden his faults are the norm for his position (Unless your name is LeBron or Bird) and we would have nothing to nag on him about really (except his defense)

But as it stands for a SG, he is really lacking in the skill department.

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