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MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax

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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#21 » by Crazy-Canuck » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:13 pm

Cavs make another solid future building deal.

While we overpay nearly double for what things are worth.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#22 » by Pchu » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:15 pm

YogiStewart wrote:well, this is pretty much an early hint as to what the NBA will be like in the upcoming seasons.
that new tax is going to be harsh...but not harsh enough to dissuade the Lakers and Mavs and Knicks of the world to stay under the tax threshold.
you may see even less parity than you currently see.


The Heat is really leary of the new tax reality. The Knicks will continue to spend (but that's Dolan), I am not sure if Jim Buss is as open to spending as his father, especially if the team continues to struggle.

It's definitely a new reality, the first GM who understands and take advantage of it would benefit hugely.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#23 » by Green Backpack » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:31 pm

Nice deal for the Cavs. A Varejao replacement for this season and a 1st.. nice job.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#24 » by The Duke » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:44 pm

Excellent trade for the Cavs.
Smart deals, building it up slowing and capitalizing on situations when they can.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#25 » by 22haytham22 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:44 pm

Is Memphis Drunk? Wtf kind of deal is this ****?
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#26 » by YogiStewart » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:50 pm

Pchu wrote:
YogiStewart wrote:well, this is pretty much an early hint as to what the NBA will be like in the upcoming seasons.
that new tax is going to be harsh...but not harsh enough to dissuade the Lakers and Mavs and Knicks of the world to stay under the tax threshold.
you may see even less parity than you currently see.


The Heat is really leary of the new tax reality. The Knicks will continue to spend (but that's Dolan), I am not sure if Jim Buss is as open to spending as his father, especially if the team continues to struggle.

It's definitely a new reality, the first GM who understands and take advantage of it would benefit hugely.


not really...

it becomes a vicious cycle. you're going to do what OKC did - and what Memphis will do - and make a Sophie's Choice regarding which star you want to keep. so if you're Memphis, you kick yourself for paying Gay what you did (but, really, had few choices since he could have walked if they didn't show him the money) and then decide if you keep him, Randolph or Gasol. so trade away Gay and, once Arthur's due for a new contract, you have the same situation.

the team that gets Gay inherits a $20 mil/year contract. if they need to re-sign players during that tenure, then they'll also have to make decisions and trade away high contract quasi-star talent to another team, who will then have to make that decision...

even Houston, who had great cap room, will be at $45 million next year. they currently sit at 8th in the West. to make a jump in the standings, they need to upgrade at a few more positions. so let's pretend they need $15-20 mil just to make a jump in the standing. what's the cap at in 1-2 years? that Harden trade was a steal, and you can argue that they benefited from OKC's salary conundrum, but Houston will probably be in that very same position in 2 years.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#27 » by whysoserious » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:51 pm

dTox wrote:WOW the Cavs are doing this rebuild the right way, the Raps should take note. The only thing holding them back were their questionable draft selection, though both picks from the last 2 years have begun to turn things around.



Don't need to only look at Cleveland. There's plenty of examples over the years. Our GM just has ADD and can't stick with one vision and in those moments is never really comitted to it either.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#28 » by AbC? » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:56 pm

Great deal for the Cavs.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#29 » by SDM » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:58 pm

whysoserious wrote:
dTox wrote:WOW the Cavs are doing this rebuild the right way, the Raps should take note. The only thing holding them back were their questionable draft selection, though both picks from the last 2 years have begun to turn things around.



Don't need to only look at Cleveland. There's plenty of examples over the years. Our GM just has ADD and can't stick with one vision and in those moments is never really comitted to it either.


It's mindboggling that Cleveland's managed to do this twice in three years.

Oh, it's because they retain cap space. Carry on.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#30 » by ATLTimekeeper » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:14 pm

I feel like Memphis is gonna blow it up in the off-season. They'll give their fans some playoff ball and then liquidate everyone but Conley and Gasol. There's no way they can elevate the talent under the pretence of shedding dollars.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#31 » by Morris_Shatford » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:25 pm

The Griz have basically prolonged their pain till summer;

Zach, Gasol, Gay, and Conley all see increases season over season and as of right now the Griz have $68,501,658 committed on July 1st to 9 guys on the roster.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#32 » by Raptorfan2012 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:25 pm

Looks like this will end the Gay trade speculation for at least this season. Time to move on.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#33 » by Morris_Shatford » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:31 pm

Raptorfan2012 wrote:Looks like this will end the Gay trade speculation for at least this season. Time to move on.


I think this paves the way for a Gay trade this season.
The Griz no longer have to trade Gay before the deadline, however he is likely going to have to get moved at the draft or certainly at some-point in the summer.

All the Griz have done is bought themselves some time and assured that they are no longer in a position of weakness should they opt to deal him this season.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#34 » by dTox » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:34 pm

Morris_Shatford wrote:
Raptorfan2012 wrote:Looks like this will end the Gay trade speculation for at least this season. Time to move on.


I think this paves the way for a Gay trade this season.
The Griz no longer have to trade Gay before the deadline, however he is likely going to have to get moved at the draft or certainly at some-point in the summer.

All the Griz have done is bought themselves some time and assured that they are no longer in a position of weakness should they opt to deal him this season.


In a way it does make sense, all of their players have hit a peak, they are basically trying to see if the current core of players are good enough to take them to near contention, if not then they will re-tool in the summer. If it does workout then they'll atleast know that they have a team who has proven enough to warrant going into the luxury threshold.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#35 » by Dalek » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:35 pm

Now that Gay rumours are done, we can move back to Pau Gasol rumours. Doug Smith already has an article on the topic.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#36 » by The_Hater » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:38 pm

Raptorfan2012 wrote:Looks like this will end the Gay trade speculation for at least this season. Time to move on.


This actually makes it easier to move Gay. Now the the Grizzlies don't have to involved a 3rd party to trade him and avoid the luxury tax, which is still their ultimate goal.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#37 » by kmatrixg » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:38 pm

YogiStewart wrote:well, this is pretty much an early hint as to what the NBA will be like in the upcoming seasons.
that new tax is going to be harsh...but not harsh enough to dissuade the Lakers and Mavs and Knicks of the world to stay under the tax threshold.
you may see even less parity than you currently see.



We'll see one of two things:

- Mid-level teams like Memphis who have talent, but not the market to support a team (ie. Boston, LA, Dallas), trading away their talent and scraping at the walls trying to make ends meet. This will effectively tear down Tier 2 and turn the NBA into Tier 1/x/Tier 3. Sounds like America.

- Give small market teams like Cleveland the opportunity to compete by buying low on player X, that Tier 2 teams cannot afford. However, once their birds are up and they need a new contract, repeat statement above.

In all reality, If you don't have an owner that's willing to pay 10 million in taxes, you're not competing at the same level for more than 4 years.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#38 » by YogiStewart » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:48 pm

kmatrixg wrote:
YogiStewart wrote:well, this is pretty much an early hint as to what the NBA will be like in the upcoming seasons.
that new tax is going to be harsh...but not harsh enough to dissuade the Lakers and Mavs and Knicks of the world to stay under the tax threshold.
you may see even less parity than you currently see.



We'll see one of two things:

- Mid-level teams like Memphis who have talent, but not the market to support a team (ie. Boston, LA, Dallas), trading away their talent and scraping at the walls trying to make ends meet. This will effectively tear down Tier 2 and turn the NBA into Tier 1/x/Tier 3. Sounds like America.

- Give small market teams like Cleveland the opportunity to compete by buying low on player X, that Tier 2 teams cannot afford. However, once their birds are up and they need a new contract, repeat statement above.

In all reality, If you don't have an owner that's willing to pay 10 million in taxes, you're not competing at the same level for more than 4 years.


but it's not $10 mil in taxes. first, we assume that a team would be $10-20 million above the luxury tax level.

Tax levels from 2013–14
Amount over tax threshold Standard tax Repeat offender tax
$5 million or less $1.50 $2.50
$5 million to $10 million $1.75 $2.75
$10 million to $15 million $2.50 $3.50
$15 million to $25 million $3.25 $4.25


that is hefty. and it means that teams may be more likely to get 1 year rent-a-stars to win a title and then trade away assets the following year to prevent a "repeat offender" tax.

what really needs to change - and won't for non-sexy markets like Toronto - is what players are worth. Max money players should be superstars. then you have stars, sub stars and very good players. Rudy Gay should not be getting Lebron money - he is 1-2 tiers lower. same with Pao Gasol and Randolph.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#39 » by Lord_Zedd » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:48 pm

Cleveland pulling an OKC. How to use cap space while rebuilding. Let other teams pay dearly to get out of the luxury tax.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#40 » by JunkYardSubs » Tue Jan 22, 2013 4:59 pm

Might as well relocate Memphis to Sacramento now
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