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MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax

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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#41 » by kmatrixg » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:00 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
kmatrixg wrote:
YogiStewart wrote:well, this is pretty much an early hint as to what the NBA will be like in the upcoming seasons.
that new tax is going to be harsh...but not harsh enough to dissuade the Lakers and Mavs and Knicks of the world to stay under the tax threshold.
you may see even less parity than you currently see.



We'll see one of two things:

- Mid-level teams like Memphis who have talent, but not the market to support a team (ie. Boston, LA, Dallas), trading away their talent and scraping at the walls trying to make ends meet. This will effectively tear down Tier 2 and turn the NBA into Tier 1/x/Tier 3. Sounds like America.

- Give small market teams like Cleveland the opportunity to compete by buying low on player X, that Tier 2 teams cannot afford. However, once their birds are up and they need a new contract, repeat statement above.

In all reality, If you don't have an owner that's willing to pay 10 million in taxes, you're not competing at the same level for more than 4 years.


but it's not $10 mil in taxes. first, we assume that a team would be $10-20 million above the luxury tax level.

Tax levels from 2013–14
Amount over tax threshold Standard tax Repeat offender tax
$5 million or less $1.50 $2.50
$5 million to $10 million $1.75 $2.75
$10 million to $15 million $2.50 $3.50
$15 million to $25 million $3.25 $4.25


that is hefty. and it means that teams may be more likely to get 1 year rent-a-stars to win a title and then trade away assets the following year to prevent a "repeat offender" tax.

what really needs to change - and won't for non-sexy markets like Toronto - is what players are worth. Max money players should be superstars. then you have stars, sub stars and very good players. Rudy Gay should not be getting Lebron money - he is 1-2 tiers lower. same with Pao Gasol and Randolph.


Yeah, I didn't fact check or anything, just threw that figure out there. Looking at it, it's going to create a huge rift between small market teams and large markets - something I'm sure David Stern knew full well when he and his staff created this double edge sword. Hopefully we see new ownership around the league, guys that are able to pay this kind of tax to win trophies. If not, we'll be watching an MLB league in a few years.

Also, with your little hierarchy you pointed out - is DeMar worth half of what LeBron is making?
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#42 » by snowman888 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:02 pm

They're going to build just in time for Uncle Drew to leave for the bright lights
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#43 » by UnderdogRaptors » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:06 pm

Meanwhile colangelo has his thumb up his ass doing nothing.... Cavs are slowly but surely surpassing us
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#44 » by Dan2087 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:24 pm

Why didn't we pick up Speights or Ellington for a 2nd??? Our 2nd's are usually worthless to us
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#45 » by niQ » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:43 pm

Man, love this deal for the Cavs. Wish we could be stashing draft picks like them.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#46 » by mtcan » Tue Jan 22, 2013 5:56 pm

LeBronNextMJ wrote:Meanwhile colangelo has his thumb up his ass doing nothing.... Cavs are slowly but surely surpassing us

Makes me appreciate Glen Grunwald's propensity to shake things up mid-season when he was in Toronto. Trade deadlines were always so much fun for a couple of seasons...with deals like the Keon Clark trade, Jerome Williams trade, Chris Childs trade, etc...I miss that adrenaline rush.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#47 » by Salted Meat » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:06 pm

Yeah! Great deal for the Raptors! Way to go, BC, using that financial flexibility to nab some young play... oh wait, what? Cleveland?

...

...

ffffffffffuuuuuuuu-
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#48 » by HEDOBALL » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:08 pm

Something's going to happen for us soon enough.

We just need healthy people and a good string of games. Patience is a virtue my little GM-lets.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#49 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:09 pm

Man Cleveland has done such an excellent job saving capspace and turning it into picks/young players. BC used the same money on Fields, Kleiza, etc. ...
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#50 » by Wo1verine » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:09 pm

I don't trust BC, so i don't want him making any moves!
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#51 » by Wo1verine » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:10 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:Man Cleveland has done such an excellent job saving capspace and turning it into picks/young players. BC used the same money on Fields, Kleiza, etc. ...

If we only had a GM who knew what he was doing!
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#52 » by God Squad » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:11 pm

Bryan colangelo please gtfo. You're a horrible gm.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#53 » by Throwback24 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:12 pm

dTox wrote:WOW the Cavs are doing this rebuild the right way, the Raps should take note. The only thing holding them back were their questionable draft selection, though both picks from the last 2 years have begun to turn things around.


Absolutely agree
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#54 » by DreamTeam09 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:15 pm

wtf are you guys complaining about?? a 2015 pick that belongs to memphis?? This is like the 1st trade of the season, is every other gm sleeping too?? They got speights, ellington and selby. We basically already have those players and better options is Amir, & T.ross. We don't have a young pg like selby but he ain't even that good. Pretty sure they made that trade because AV is out for the yr too so ya'all can continue to complain over the sake of complaining. Did BC physically piss in some of ya'alls coffee or what??
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#55 » by SDM » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:21 pm

DreamTeam09 wrote:wtf are you guys complaining about?? a 2015 pick that belongs to memphis?? This is like the 1st trade of the season, is every other gm sleeping too?? They got speights, ellington and selby. We basically already have those players and better options is Amir, & T.ross. We don't have a young pg like selby but he ain't even that good. Pretty sure they made that trade because AV is out for the yr too so ya'all can continue to complain over the sake of complaining. Did BC physically piss in some of ya'alls coffee or what??


It's the lack of sound philosophy, like Cleveland's, that people are complaining about, not that Wayne Ellington didn't come here. Cleveland continues to do what smart teams are supposed to do: retain cap space so you grab assets in exchange for it.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#56 » by SkywalkerAC » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:30 pm

wow, great pickup for the Cavs. They don't get the best prospects but they still get a few, Speights especially useful with Andy out.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#57 » by andyo » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:32 pm

Good move by the Cavs...this is one of those low risk high reward deals...Speights still has some untapped upside left. Not saying he will reach it....but he has some flashes of brilliance when given minutes or spot starting.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#58 » by MEDIC » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:33 pm

YogiStewart wrote:you may see even less parity than you currently see.


I disagree. You have talent going from a pretty good team to a bottom feeder. That increases the competitiveness of the league. That's what I was hoping to see.

If they end up trading Gay as well, then you have another talented player possibly going to a team that needs a good player to become a playoff team.

If Rudy Gay was somehow going to LA, NYC or Miami for basically nothing, then I would have a problem with it. That's not what will happen though. Gay (if traded) will most likely go to a team that needs a talent increase.

I think this system will help the competitiveness of the league overall. That's all I can ask for.

There may not be a big increase in championship contenders, but there should be an increase in the middle class.

This is a socialist system. :lol:
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#59 » by MEDIC » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:37 pm

Dr Positivity wrote:Man Cleveland has done such an excellent job saving capspace and turning it into picks/young players. BC used the same money on Fields, Kleiza, etc. ...


Are they taking themselves out of the Wiggins sweepstakes though?

These young assets are great, but they aren't going to turn this team into a contender. Just more mediocrity.

Cleveland desperately needs to land a top 3 pick in the next 2 seasons.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#60 » by DreamTeam09 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 6:48 pm

Clv is in the same spot they were in from the start. They still need more "guys" picking waiters and TT too high still doesn't help at all tho...
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