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MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax

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Post#61 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:55 pm by ATLTimekeeper

The Cavs guy saying that it's similar protection to the Lowry trade, 1-5 and 15-30. Basically a guaranteed lotto pick to not pay lux tax.

Jason Lloyd @JasonLloydABJ about 1 hour ago
#Cavs trade official. Pick is protected 1-5 & 15-30 for 2015 and 2016. Top 5 protected 2017 & 2018 and unprotected in 2019.


Stooooopid.
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Post#62 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:58 pm by MEDIC

mtcan wrote:
LeBronNextMJ wrote:Meanwhile colangelo has his thumb up his ass doing nothing.... Cavs are slowly but surely surpassing us

Makes me appreciate Glen Grunwald's propensity to shake things up mid-season when he was in Toronto. Trade deadlines were always so much fun for a couple of seasons...with deals like the Keon Clark trade, Jerome Williams trade, Chris Childs trade, etc...I miss that adrenaline rush.


Yeah, but it's easier to make trades for good role players when you already have a superstar.

Right now if we made a trade for any one of those players, it would be meh.......

We're in a tough spot right now. We're on the outside looking in (both high draft pick & playoffs).

I agree with you though. Those were really exciting times. The best period ever to be a raptor fan. It's nice to actually be excited about making a trade for a solid role player that will improve your team.

When you're a legit playoff team, minor trades are a hell of a lot of fun. Look at the Jays when they were winning championships.
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Post#63 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:58 pm by bigbadstevenson

SkywalkerAC wrote:wow, great pickup for the Cavs. They don't get the best prospects but they still get a few, Speights especially useful with Andy out.


That's what confuses me. Memphis had something that Cleveland could use, and that's the best they could do? It'd seem like an even trade just to send Speights over for nothing, but the Grizzlies throw in a draft pick and other assets.

It just doesn't make sense that other teams wouldn't do just a little bit better than Cleveland did. Couldn't Colangelo do the same deal for Pietrus or Lucas instead of Leuer? Throwing in a second round pick would keep it quite a good deal for Toronto and sweeten the deal for Memphis. I know that Speights doesn't offer much that the Raptors don't already have, but Selby would give them something and does anybody really think that the Grizzlies are going to be better in two seasons than they are now? That pick could be in the teens.

Is there some provision that I'm overlooking that wouldn't allow Toronto to do the same kind of deal? Even sending Calderon for a package like that would be better pretty decent. Who thought that they'd get a first round pick for Jose?
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Post#64 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:06 pm by JN

Thank god we used our cap space to sign players like Kleiza and Fields. Cleveland may be struggling with there draft picks but they sure know how to use cap space much better than us in times of rebuilding.

But BC tells us we have flexibility.
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Post#65 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:11 pm by Aventador

we dont have the cap space to do the same trade with Acy? What am I missing here
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Post#66 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:16 pm by DreamTeam09

The Flyest wrote:we dont have the cap space to do the same trade with Acy? What am I missing here


We have no use for any of the players in the deal except maybe selby and even then theirs other ways to get a 3rd string pg.

Its a good trade for the Cavs because they freaking suck!! We aren't as bad as they are even if the majority of the board thinks so. Kyrie is good, the cavs are still **** tho.. This trade does help them tho...
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Post#67 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:16 pm by Dr Positivity

ATLTimekeeper wrote:The Cavs guy saying that it's similar protection to the Lowry trade, 1-5 and 15-30. Basically a guaranteed lotto pick to not pay lux tax.

Jason Lloyd @JasonLloydABJ about 1 hour ago
#Cavs trade official. Pick is protected 1-5 & 15-30 for 2015 and 2016. Top 5 protected 2017 & 2018 and unprotected in 2019.


Stooooopid.


Unbelievable, that's an amazing asset for the Cavs to pick up
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Post#68 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:17 pm by Aventador

DreamTeam09 wrote:
The Flyest wrote:we dont have the cap space to do the same trade with Acy? What am I missing here


We have no use for any of the players in the deal except maybe selby and even then theirs other ways to get a 3rd string pg.

Its a good trade for the Cavs because they freaking suck!! We aren't as bad as they are even if the majority of the board thinks so. Kyrie is good, the cavs are still **** tho.. This trade does help them tho...



the pick, son, the pick.
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Post#69 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:20 pm by DreamTeam09

The Flyest wrote:
DreamTeam09 wrote:
The Flyest wrote:we dont have the cap space to do the same trade with Acy? What am I missing here


We have no use for any of the players in the deal except maybe selby and even then theirs other ways to get a 3rd string pg.

Its a good trade for the Cavs because they freaking suck!! We aren't as bad as they are even if the majority of the board thinks so. Kyrie is good, the cavs are still **** tho.. This trade does help them tho...



the pick, son, the pick.


Its a protected pick starting in 2015, unprotected in 2019, lol lol its not that serious at all!!
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Post#70 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:20 pm by Scase

Pchu wrote:
YogiStewart wrote:well, this is pretty much an early hint as to what the NBA will be like in the upcoming seasons.
that new tax is going to be harsh...but not harsh enough to dissuade the Lakers and Mavs and Knicks of the world to stay under the tax threshold.
you may see even less parity than you currently see.


The Heat is really leary of the new tax reality. The Knicks will continue to spend (but that's Dolan), I am not sure if Jim Buss is as open to spending as his father, especially if the team continues to struggle.

It's definitely a new reality, the first GM who understands and take advantage of it would benefit hugely.

Which is why I'm incredibly pleased that we have a GM that understands contract and player values.
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Post#71 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:21 pm by Zeno

So reverse protection is in vogue now.
When will we just change the name of 25 of the 30 teams to the Washington Generals?

Please advise….

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Post#72 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:23 pm by Dr Positivity

bigbadstevenson wrote:
SkywalkerAC wrote:wow, great pickup for the Cavs. They don't get the best prospects but they still get a few, Speights especially useful with Andy out.


That's what confuses me. Memphis had something that Cleveland could use, and that's the best they could do? It'd seem like an even trade just to send Speights over for nothing, but the Grizzlies throw in a draft pick and other assets.

It just doesn't make sense that other teams wouldn't do just a little bit better than Cleveland did. Couldn't Colangelo do the same deal for Pietrus or Lucas instead of Leuer? Throwing in a second round pick would keep it quite a good deal for Toronto and sweeten the deal for Memphis. I know that Speights doesn't offer much that the Raptors don't already have, but Selby would give them something and does anybody really think that the Grizzlies are going to be better in two seasons than they are now? That pick could be in the teens.

Is there some provision that I'm overlooking that wouldn't allow Toronto to do the same kind of deal? Even sending Calderon for a package like that would be better pretty decent. Who thought that they'd get a first round pick for Jose?


Memphis was 4 mil+ over the luxury tax so they had to make a deal that was lopsided in terms of contract going out/in. Only a few teams had enough capspace to take that much salary from them and Toronto wasn't one of them, pretty much entirely because of the money we spent on Fields, JLIII and Gray this summer

It is amazing how many extra draft picks CLE has acquired since 2010. Other than the Irving and Zeller picks which they got by trade, they have 2 future MIA 1sts, future SAC 1st, a future Lakers pick swap, two Orlando seconds (30s), and now a juicy MEM 1st. Impressive.
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Post#73 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:32 pm by MEDIC

DreamTeam09 wrote:We have no use for any of the players in the deal except maybe selby and even then theirs other ways to get a 3rd string pg.

Its a good trade for the Cavs because they freaking suck!! We aren't as bad as they are even if the majority of the board thinks so. Kyrie is good, the cavs are still **** tho.. This trade does help them tho...


I completely agree with you. This trade would do absolutely nothing for this team. We need high end talent. I'm not sure what it's going to do for Cleveland either other than make the product slightly more competitive.

Having said that, I think people would rather see talent attained in this manner rather than splurging cap space on players like Fields & Kleiza. The contracts the Cavs attained are short term & relatively inexpensive (and all young/ developing).
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Post#74 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:36 pm by JN

bigbadstevenson wrote:Is there some provision that I'm overlooking that wouldn't allow Toronto to do the same kind of deal? Even sending Calderon for a package like that would be better pretty decent. Who thought that they'd get a first round pick for Jose?



Memphis needed to unload salary while getting no salary in return (I.e they don't want Calderon back). A team can only accept the trade like Cleveland did if they have space under the salary cap. The Raptors are right up against the cap line because BC has overspent on mediocore players, -- they did not have the cap space that Memphis was looking for So no there is nothing the Raptors can do in a similar manner.
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Post#75 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:38 pm by The Duke

Aquiring a 1st round draft pick in the future, does nothing to help them?
Maybe not right now, but they could flip that pick in the future for help if they choose to.
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Post#76 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:46 pm by Bankai

Cavs are rebuilding the right way and managing to grab 1st Round picks out of scrap deals. Their only downside is that they have been questionable at drafting. Because of this, they are currently no better than the Raptors who havent rebuilt fully, but when it came to drafting, so far has drafted better.
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Post#77 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:50 pm by sanity

Speights is definitely not a headcase.

Great trade for Cleveland, especially with their (now) depleted frontcourt. Speights can produce
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Post#78 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:59 pm by Dr Positivity

Bankai wrote:Cavs are rebuilding the right way and managing to grab 1st Round picks out of scrap deals. Their only downside is that they have been questionable at drafting. Because of this, they are currently no better than the Raptors who havent rebuilt fully, but when it came to drafting, so far has drafted better.


What are you basing this on? TT vs Valanciunas is a toss-up right now: Thompson has come on and is averaging 14/12 in January. And Dion has played a lot better than Ross this year. And while the Kyrie pick was easy/obvious, there was *some* people advocating Derrick Williams 1st, people like Bill Simmons were banging the "Williams and Kyrie is a toss-up, so take Williams so you can grab Kemba/Knight at 4!" drum. So there's no reason to think the Raptors have drafted better than the Cavs. Especially if you include pre 2010, where the Raptors farted away a #1 and #9 pick by taking two non-starter caliber players in Bargnani and Derozan
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Post#79 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:03 pm by sanity

Our drafts are always ****. Even picking Davis was stupid based on already having both Bosh and Bargnani on the roster--we were fortunate Davis in hindsight isn't a bad pick based on our current situation, but we never worked him out during that draft. Even going as far back as selecting Villanueva was dumb in expecting either him or Bosh exclusively playing the 5
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Post#80 Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz
Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:07 pm by DreamTeam09

lol ^^ If Demar and Bargs were on the cavs they would start so....

The cavs did do a poor job drafting, when you compare to us and just when u comapre to who they could've selected.

TT was too high, but even then fine take him over Val. Waiters makes no sense tho. He has not played better than Ross this yr and they didn't even need him. Why take waiters 4th when Trob / Barnes / Drummond are still on the board. Either one of those players makes that team better and more rounded compared to waiters. So yea they have drafted bad, and the raps have drafted way better than they have.
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