ImageImageImageImageImage

MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax

Moderators: tsherkin, Yuri Vaultin, itbobby007, Alfred, Morris_Shatford, DG88, Undefeated, Rhettmatic, FluLikeSymptoms

User avatar
Bankai
RealGM
Posts: 21,728
And1: 8,389
Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#76 » by Bankai » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:46 pm

Cavs are rebuilding the right way and managing to grab 1st Round picks out of scrap deals. Their only downside is that they have been questionable at drafting. Because of this, they are currently no better than the Raptors who havent rebuilt fully, but when it came to drafting, so far has drafted better.
User avatar
sanity
RealGM
Posts: 17,551
And1: 1,804
Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#77 » by sanity » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:50 pm

Speights is definitely not a headcase.

Great trade for Cleveland, especially with their (now) depleted frontcourt. Speights can produce
User avatar
Dr Positivity
RealGM
Posts: 31,455
And1: 1,215
Joined: Apr 29, 2009
       

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#78 » by Dr Positivity » Tue Jan 22, 2013 7:59 pm

Bankai wrote:Cavs are rebuilding the right way and managing to grab 1st Round picks out of scrap deals. Their only downside is that they have been questionable at drafting. Because of this, they are currently no better than the Raptors who havent rebuilt fully, but when it came to drafting, so far has drafted better.


What are you basing this on? TT vs Valanciunas is a toss-up right now: Thompson has come on and is averaging 14/12 in January. And Dion has played a lot better than Ross this year. And while the Kyrie pick was easy/obvious, there was *some* people advocating Derrick Williams 1st, people like Bill Simmons were banging the "Williams and Kyrie is a toss-up, so take Williams so you can grab Kemba/Knight at 4!" drum. So there's no reason to think the Raptors have drafted better than the Cavs. Especially if you include pre 2010, where the Raptors farted away a #1 and #9 pick by taking two non-starter caliber players in Bargnani and Derozan
User avatar
sanity
RealGM
Posts: 17,551
And1: 1,804
Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#79 » by sanity » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:03 pm

Our drafts are always ****. Even picking Davis was stupid based on already having both Bosh and Bargnani on the roster--we were fortunate Davis in hindsight isn't a bad pick based on our current situation, but we never worked him out during that draft. Even going as far back as selecting Villanueva was dumb in expecting either him or Bosh exclusively playing the 5
User avatar
DreamTeam09
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,027
And1: 357
Joined: Jan 06, 2009
Location: EAST END TORONTO

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#80 » by DreamTeam09 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:07 pm

lol ^^ If Demar and Bargs were on the cavs they would start so....

The cavs did do a poor job drafting, when you compare to us and just when u comapre to who they could've selected.

TT was too high, but even then fine take him over Val. Waiters makes no sense tho. He has not played better than Ross this yr and they didn't even need him. Why take waiters 4th when Trob / Barnes / Drummond are still on the board. Either one of those players makes that team better and more rounded compared to waiters. So yea they have drafted bad, and the raps have drafted way better than they have.
Image

In Raptor Ball I Trust
User avatar
YogiStewart
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 20,525
And1: 1,083
Joined: Aug 08, 2007
Location: Its ALL about Location, Location, Location!

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#81 » by YogiStewart » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:09 pm

sanity wrote:Our drafts are always ****. Even picking Davis was stupid based on already having both Bosh and Bargnani on the roster--we were fortunate Davis in hindsight isn't a bad pick based on our current situation, but we never worked him out during that draft. Even going as far back as selecting Villanueva was dumb in expecting either him or Bosh exclusively playing the 5



too indifferent to look, but I'm betting you're also whining in the Drummond thread that we didn't take the BPA.
Oogla Carr: MLSE Employee of the Year
User avatar
Bankai
RealGM
Posts: 21,728
And1: 8,389
Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Location: Toronto, ON

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#82 » by Bankai » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:14 pm

sanity wrote:Our drafts are always ****. Even picking Davis was stupid based on already having both Bosh and Bargnani on the roster--we were fortunate Davis in hindsight isn't a bad pick based on our current situation, but we never worked him out during that draft. Even going as far back as selecting Villanueva was dumb in expecting either him or Bosh exclusively playing the 5

We picked Davis because Bosh already made it clear he was going to Miami . Davis was basically picked as a Bosh/PF replacement, and he was the BPA at the time. Yea we didnt work him out, but we were fortunate that Davis slid to #13.

Besides Irving which was a no brainer, the other ones were questionable. But if they get better at scouting and signing talent they could easily have a better future than the Raptors. They already have a premier talent to build around, something the Raptors dont have just need a better supporting cast, which they currently dont have.
User avatar
dTox
General Manager
Posts: 9,091
And1: 3,701
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Location: 416
 

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#83 » by dTox » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:19 pm

Bankai wrote:
sanity wrote:Our drafts are always ****. Even picking Davis was stupid based on already having both Bosh and Bargnani on the roster--we were fortunate Davis in hindsight isn't a bad pick based on our current situation, but we never worked him out during that draft. Even going as far back as selecting Villanueva was dumb in expecting either him or Bosh exclusively playing the 5

We picked Davis because Bosh already made it clear he was going to Miami . Davis was basically picked as a Bosh/PF replacement, and he was the BPA at the time. Yea we didnt work him out, but we were fortunate that Davis slid to #13.


Especially when you consider some of the other players picked ahead of him: Udoh, Hayward, Alrich, Henry, Aminu, Wes Johnson...Davis being there for us was nothing short of a Miracle which resulted from him breaking his hand in NC
Image
TBZ for the win
User avatar
Chaos Engine
Analyst
Posts: 3,743
And1: 1,227
Joined: Jan 23, 2012

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#84 » by Chaos Engine » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:19 pm

Cleveland did something similar a few years back when they took on Davis' horrible contract but got a first round pick which ended up turning into Kyrie. They know what to do during a rebuild, use your capspace to take on players and contracts while adding more and more draft picks.

Meanwhile BC relies on FA to try and rebuild the team.
JV4MVP
Head Coach
Posts: 7,422
And1: 4,588
Joined: Jan 27, 2012
 

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#85 » by JV4MVP » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:20 pm

It is such a disadvantage to be a small market team. The Grizzlies are contenders for the West alongside the Thunder, Clippers and Spurs.

I can't see them being very competitive after this season... they're only going to downgrade consider the $50,000,000 per season liability to Gasol, Randolph and Gay.
User avatar
sanity
RealGM
Posts: 17,551
And1: 1,804
Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#86 » by sanity » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:32 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
sanity wrote:Our drafts are always ****. Even picking Davis was stupid based on already having both Bosh and Bargnani on the roster--we were fortunate Davis in hindsight isn't a bad pick based on our current situation, but we never worked him out during that draft. Even going as far back as selecting Villanueva was dumb in expecting either him or Bosh exclusively playing the 5



too indifferent to look, but I'm betting you're also whining in the Drummond thread that we didn't take the BPA.


Different since it was painstakingly clear that Bargnani wasn't cut out to be the long-term piece at center
fredericklove
Banned User
Posts: 24,571
And1: 6,394
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
Location: Toronto Raptors Playoffs Trauma Treatment Center
     

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#87 » by fredericklove » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:32 pm

After next year...

Noel
TT/Speight
Wiggins or Parker
Waiter
Irving

beautiful.
Big Shot
Veteran
Posts: 2,662
And1: 311
Joined: Mar 22, 2002

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#88 » by Big Shot » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:44 pm

fredericklove wrote:After next year...

Noel
TT/Speight
Wiggins or Parker
Waiter
Irving

beautiful.


and Lebron.
User avatar
TheGoodDoctor
Head Coach
Posts: 6,365
And1: 4,654
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
Location: Jurassic Park
 

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#89 » by TheGoodDoctor » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:37 pm

fredericklove wrote:After next year...

Noel
TT/Speight
Wiggins or Parker
Waiter
Irving

beautiful.


Considering they play Moneyball with their draft picks I highly doubt that line up happens and it's a shadow of what could have been:

Irving
Shabazz or McLemore (this year)
Parker, Wiggins or Randle (next year)
Valanciunas
Drummond

Would have easily had the potential to be the best formed young team from a draft (yes over OKC and POR imo).
#MLSEHIRETZ ------ HOLD UP, HOLD UP-------#WETHENORTH.
Image
User avatar
Brinbe
RealGM
Posts: 30,688
And1: 903
Joined: Feb 26, 2005
Location: Terana
         

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#90 » by Brinbe » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:52 pm

Bad deal
Image
User avatar
martypython
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,289
And1: 238
Joined: Jun 24, 2010
       

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#91 » by martypython » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:55 pm

Chaos Engine wrote:Cleveland did something similar a few years back when they took on Davis' horrible contract but got a first round pick which ended up turning into Kyrie. They know what to do during a rebuild, use your capspace to take on players and contracts while adding more and more draft picks.

Meanwhile BC relies on FA to try and rebuild the team.


Getting a number one draft pick by taking on Davis' contract was pure luck. Imagine what the media and fans would be saying if the pick turns out to be a dud.
chuckerz
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,324
And1: 89
Joined: Jan 18, 2008

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#92 » by chuckerz » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:12 pm

The grizzlies should have at least asked for a second round pick. That way they can just pick a European player and stash him overseas for a few years until he's ready to come over. Jon leuer can be a spot up three point shooting big like Matt Bonner. It'll give room for Gasol or Randolph to work downlow while Leuer spreads the floor.
User avatar
Chaos Engine
Analyst
Posts: 3,743
And1: 1,227
Joined: Jan 23, 2012

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#93 » by Chaos Engine » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:20 pm

martypython wrote:
Chaos Engine wrote:Cleveland did something similar a few years back when they took on Davis' horrible contract but got a first round pick which ended up turning into Kyrie. They know what to do during a rebuild, use your capspace to take on players and contracts while adding more and more draft picks.

Meanwhile BC relies on FA to try and rebuild the team.


Getting a number one draft pick by taking on Davis' contract was pure luck. Imagine what the media and fans would be saying if the pick turns out to be a dud.

Not pure luck. They smartly increased their odds to get the #1 pick, and used the amnesty on Baron the next year.
cdel00
Lead Assistant
Posts: 5,983
And1: 160
Joined: Apr 12, 2007

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#94 » by cdel00 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:28 pm

Holy ****!


Lauer sucks wtf.

2 decent prospects plus a pick similar to what we gave for Lowry.

You gotta be f'en with me.
PBI
Junior
Posts: 415
And1: 13
Joined: Dec 11, 2011

Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#95 » by PBI » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:55 pm

This is what rebuilding looks like, friends.

Return to Toronto Raptors