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MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax

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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#91 » by martypython » Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:55 pm

Chaos Engine wrote:Cleveland did something similar a few years back when they took on Davis' horrible contract but got a first round pick which ended up turning into Kyrie. They know what to do during a rebuild, use your capspace to take on players and contracts while adding more and more draft picks.

Meanwhile BC relies on FA to try and rebuild the team.


Getting a number one draft pick by taking on Davis' contract was pure luck. Imagine what the media and fans would be saying if the pick turns out to be a dud.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#92 » by chuckerz » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:12 pm

The grizzlies should have at least asked for a second round pick. That way they can just pick a European player and stash him overseas for a few years until he's ready to come over. Jon leuer can be a spot up three point shooting big like Matt Bonner. It'll give room for Gasol or Randolph to work downlow while Leuer spreads the floor.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#93 » by Chaos Engine » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:20 pm

martypython wrote:
Chaos Engine wrote:Cleveland did something similar a few years back when they took on Davis' horrible contract but got a first round pick which ended up turning into Kyrie. They know what to do during a rebuild, use your capspace to take on players and contracts while adding more and more draft picks.

Meanwhile BC relies on FA to try and rebuild the team.


Getting a number one draft pick by taking on Davis' contract was pure luck. Imagine what the media and fans would be saying if the pick turns out to be a dud.

Not pure luck. They smartly increased their odds to get the #1 pick, and used the amnesty on Baron the next year.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#94 » by cdel00 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:28 pm

Holy ****!


Lauer sucks wtf.

2 decent prospects plus a pick similar to what we gave for Lowry.

You gotta be f'en with me.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#95 » by PBI » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:55 pm

This is what rebuilding looks like, friends.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#96 » by sisibilio » Tue Jan 22, 2013 11:56 pm

Jval17 wrote:Wayne Ellington as mentioned above, is also included in this deal. I dont like this trade for MEM at all. They give up a lot just to buy some time before they must trade one of gay/zbo. Hopefully this is the first domino to fall and gets gm's to start making deals!

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Cavaliers are getting a FIRST round pick in deal with Memphis.

If they make it to the finals (not saying that it's very likely) it would be time well bought. Although the conditions of the pick traded are really steep.
If you want to try to measure the elements of basketball that are supposedly unmeasurable, spend a game just watching Marc Gasol.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#97 » by sisibilio » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:02 am

chuckerz wrote:The grizzlies should have at least asked for a second round pick.

The Grizzlies should have tried to force it a bit and probably Cle settled for the 2015 pick top 5 protected.
IDK why they were in such a hurry. Maybe feared Cavs used their capspace in other trade, or someone picked West before they could.
If you want to try to measure the elements of basketball that are supposedly unmeasurable, spend a game just watching Marc Gasol.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#98 » by Dr Positivity » Wed Jan 23, 2013 1:46 am

TheGoodDoctor wrote:
fredericklove wrote:After next year...

Noel
TT/Speight
Wiggins or Parker
Waiter
Irving

beautiful.


Considering they play Moneyball with their draft picks I highly doubt that line up happens and it's a shadow of what could have been:

Irving
Shabazz or McLemore (this year)
Parker, Wiggins or Randle (next year)
Valanciunas
Drummond

Would have easily had the potential to be the best formed young team from a draft (yes over OKC and POR imo).


If the Cavs went "chalk", they would've taken Valanciunas and then 'consensus BPA' Thomas Robinson 2012 - Drummond wasn't projected over MKG, Beal or TRob by anyone. I remember people criticizing the Cavs for not going with the sure to be elite Robinson/Valanciunas frontcourt...
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#99 » by Parataxis » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:02 am

SDM wrote:
whysoserious wrote:
dTox wrote:WOW the Cavs are doing this rebuild the right way, the Raps should take note. The only thing holding them back were their questionable draft selection, though both picks from the last 2 years have begun to turn things around.



Don't need to only look at Cleveland. There's plenty of examples over the years. Our GM just has ADD and can't stick with one vision and in those moments is never really comitted to it either.


It's mindboggling that Cleveland's managed to do this twice in three years.

Oh, it's because they retain cap space. Carry on.


I wonder if they'll reach terribly with this pick as well. Seems to be the Cleveland way.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#100 » by Ackshun » Wed Jan 23, 2013 8:08 am

Can't really wrap my head around the 1st round pick portion.

I like Ellington, although he's a bit undersized. Selby was redundant with Wroten nailed to the bench.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#101 » by Felixano » Wed Jan 23, 2013 10:22 am

Wrote an article about my opinion on this trade, check it out if you get a chance

http://gamedayglory.blogspot.ca/2013/01 ... ngton.html
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#102 » by YogiStewart » Wed Jan 23, 2013 11:45 am

PBI wrote:This is what rebuilding looks like, friends.

the Cavs should know. they've been doing it for...what, now...3+ years? and look at the standings!
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#103 » by team edward » Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:30 pm

YogiStewart wrote:
PBI wrote:This is what rebuilding looks like, friends.

the Cavs should know. they've been doing it for...what, now...3+ years? and look at the standings!
Exactly. Rebuilding means staying terrible for as long as possible. But while you stay terrible, you are curling up like a cobra, and then one season your picks have all become all-stars and you land a big free-agent and you STRIKE! That's how it works every time.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#104 » by Viatical » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:39 pm

Evaluating this trade on the players' merits misses the point. It's a salary dump that gives Memphis the option of retaining their core while keeping the repeater taxpayer penalties out of the equation. None of the players involved in the trade are consequential or important to either team. Not even whomever the pick turns into, in an historically bad draft. Well done Memphis. *claps*
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#105 » by sisibilio » Wed Jan 23, 2013 3:48 pm

team edward wrote:
YogiStewart wrote:
PBI wrote:This is what rebuilding looks like, friends.

the Cavs should know. they've been doing it for...what, now...3+ years? and look at the standings!
Exactly. Rebuilding means staying terrible for as long as possible. But while you stay terrible, you are curling up like a cobra, and then one season your picks have all become all-stars and you land a big free-agent and you STRIKE! That's how it works every time.

That's how it works or, much more frequently, doesn't work.
Other than OKC, the Cavs of the LeBron era and maybe Orlando with Dwight, what other elite team since 1999 have been built though a "proper" rebuild?
If you want to try to measure the elements of basketball that are supposedly unmeasurable, spend a game just watching Marc Gasol.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#106 » by ATLTimekeeper » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:11 pm

Viatical wrote:Evaluating this trade on the players' merits misses the point. It's a salary dump that gives Memphis the option of retaining their core while keeping the repeater taxpayer penalties out of the equation. None of the players involved in the trade are consequential or important to either team. Not even whomever the pick turns into, in an historically bad draft. Well done Memphis. *claps*


You missed the pick protection. It's for 2015 at the earliest and is lotto guaranteed. Terrible for Memphis no matter how you slice it. And Memphis will still have tax issues going forward with no ability to retain Tony Allen. They basically traded a lotto pick just to avoid the tax this year.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#107 » by Viatical » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:11 pm

I have no idea what is meant by "proper" rebuild, since the most successful teams were mediocre to bad for seasons on end, and used a hybrid approach of leaning on veteran free agents while waiting for their draft prospects to work out. A lot also depends on how savvy an NBA GM can be in assembling star talent as well. Good examples: The Boston Celtics, who were the definition of mediocre dating back to the Paul Pierce / Antoine Walker years before Rondo started to get good and the old "Big 3" was assembled through free agency. Houston, who assembled a theoretical championship core through careful drafting and savvy trades, had the whole thing destroyed with career-ending injuries, and then reassembled into a probable playoff team based around a new star just 2-3 years later, flipping those old assets in the process.

There are good ways of doing this and then there are bad ways. And then there are very bad ways.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#108 » by Viatical » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:16 pm

ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Viatical wrote:Evaluating this trade on the players' merits misses the point. It's a salary dump that gives Memphis the option of retaining their core while keeping the repeater taxpayer penalties out of the equation. None of the players involved in the trade are consequential or important to either team. Not even whomever the pick turns into, in an historically bad draft. Well done Memphis. *claps*


You missed the pick protection. It's for 2015 at the earliest and is lotto guaranteed. Terrible for Memphis no matter how you slice it. And Memphis will still have tax issues going forward with no ability to retain Tony Allen. They basically traded a lotto pick just to avoid the tax this year.


No no, I saw the protections on the pick. I just sincerely believe these next two draft classes will be THAT bad. Most of those players will be completely inconsequential. Blame it on the one and done system, the decline of good collegiate basketball competition, the emphasis on AAU ball over fundamentals--whatever. Point being, most of the players in the 2013 class will be miserable replacement-level guys. But that is for a separate discussion.

This also relates back to all the baffling grousing over the Kyle Lowry pick situation. If you're going to incentivize another team with draft picks, this would be the draft to do it in. But that too is for a separate discussion.

Again, well done Memphis.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#109 » by ATLTimekeeper » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:22 pm

Viatical wrote:
ATLTimekeeper wrote:
Viatical wrote:Evaluating this trade on the players' merits misses the point. It's a salary dump that gives Memphis the option of retaining their core while keeping the repeater taxpayer penalties out of the equation. None of the players involved in the trade are consequential or important to either team. Not even whomever the pick turns into, in an historically bad draft. Well done Memphis. *claps*


You missed the pick protection. It's for 2015 at the earliest and is lotto guaranteed. Terrible for Memphis no matter how you slice it. And Memphis will still have tax issues going forward with no ability to retain Tony Allen. They basically traded a lotto pick just to avoid the tax this year.


No no, I saw the protections on the pick. I just sincerely believe these next two draft classes will be THAT bad. Most of those players will be completely inconsequential. Blame it on the one and done system, the decline of good collegiate basketball competition, the emphasis on AAU ball over fundamentals--whatever. Point being, most of the players in the 2013 class will be miserable replacement-level guys. But that is for a separate discussion.

This also relates back to all the baffling grousing over the Kyle Lowry pick situation. If you're going to incentivize another team with draft picks, this would be the draft to do it in. But that too is for a separate discussion.

Again, well done Memphis.


So then you just missed the "2015 at the earliest" part.
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Re: MEM/CLE trade: Speights on the move, Griz escape Lux tax 

Post#110 » by YogiStewart » Wed Jan 23, 2013 4:28 pm

team edward wrote:
YogiStewart wrote:
PBI wrote:This is what rebuilding looks like, friends.

the Cavs should know. they've been doing it for...what, now...3+ years? and look at the standings!
Exactly. Rebuilding means staying terrible for as long as possible. But while you stay terrible, you are curling up like a cobra, and then one season your picks have all become all-stars and you land a big free-agent and you STRIKE! That's how it works every time.


yep. works like that every time. still waiting for the Bobcat snake to strike. same with the Wizards.
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