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If you could go back in time...how to handle Bargs?

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Post#31 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:31 pm by sanity

C_Money wrote:Sam Mitchell was the perfect coach for him. It was Jay Triano that let him do whatever he wanted which has now made him one of the laziest players of all time. Dwane Casey is basically running things the exact same way Triano did.


I feel the exact same way towards this.

Smitch normally gave Andrea the hook after consecutive brain-farts... something that both Casey and Triano absolutely avoided. Granted, Andrea has taken a larger role for this team since to the point where he is expected to lead,but its obvious that there is little consequence to him just playing badly.

Hell, I remember Smitch chewing out Bosh at times and the guy responded with better play. Andrea really suffers from being unmotivated, whether its himself or from the coaching staff.

Smitch might be considered a bad x/o's guy, but he did recognize when his team played like **** and knew how to motivate them.
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Post#32 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:37 pm by UcanUwill

Indeed wrote:Play one year each for his national team instead of every year.


I dont understand? What do you you mean by playing one year each? And he didn't played for his country every year, he barely played for his country at all.

He skipped 2006, 2007, 2008 and 2012.
Played in 2009 extra Eurobasket qualification, failed to make it, played in 2010 Qualification and 2011 Eurobasket.
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Post#33 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:57 pm by Salted Meat

I certainly wouldn't have put him in a situation where he had to play out of position from day 1. if I decided I was drafting (and keeping) Bargnani, I'd have looked to trade Bosh for as high a draft pick, or as good a collection of young assets as possible. Tanked again for another year, and had a chance at landing Durant or Oden.
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Post#34 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:02 pm by D-BE-LAW

what were we 8-8, 8-9 when smitch got fired. Did we think that a knee-less JO would yield success? We could have drafted roy hibbert to play along bosh. Bosh is probably having a blast with his personal life in miami, but is it really that fun being 3rd fiddle to wade and lebron. We could have did great things with bosh, hopped on the treadmill. His jersey would have been retired, maybe teams would want to come to toronto because of bosh, or was bosh that sure that no one would want to play along side him, moving to Canada in all. Bosh was the boy in toronto, now everyone makes fun of him in miami, and is a laughing stock most of the times.
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Post#35 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:19 pm by Ilmago_Bargs7

first of all, we already had Bosh who was supposed to be our future PF, so we shouldve gone for a better fit. Andrea definitely is a talented player but not a good fit, but we dont know, it couldve gotten worse if we had picked morrison or tyrus thomas...

secondly, Bargs was treated like a baby from day one, maybe not like a baby but he definitely had some privilege over the rest. Damn he was the first pick, everyone is expecting a lot from a first pick, so he mustve been put pressure, but that did not happen. Its like my father punishes me for not putting enough effort in my grades, but my mother gives me prize. The answer is easy, there was no pressure over him. Hes like the intelligent guy at school who only cares about passing the exams with averages grades, instead of putting more effort.
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Post#36 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:23 pm by DG88

Well you'd draft someone else in hindsight, but after Bosh left we should have traded Andrea and start a true rebuild without him. We would probably get a good package out of him because that was his best season statistically.
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Post#37 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:30 pm by Neutral 123

Salted Meat wrote:I certainly wouldn't have put him in a situation where he had to play out of position from day 1. if I decided I was drafting (and keeping) Bargnani, I'd have looked to trade Bosh for as high a draft pick, or as good a collection of young assets as possible. Tanked again for another year, and had a chance at landing Durant or Oden.

What is his position? People are still debating this till this day. I honestly don't know why anyone would in hindsight still try to work with this guy. Don't draft him. If this assumes you had to draft him, then trade him asap. If it means you have to keep him for a while, then you have him come off the bench. Basically, the least Bargs the better.
To them, it's like everyone wants the money they are never going to make. amluvinit2 on the tea party..
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Post#38 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:32 pm by Landomar

I'd have handled him by ignoring him and drafting Aldridge like I wanted to at the time.
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Post#39 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:39 pm by DHK

Stop ****ing with his body.
We initially put him at the 4..then slide him into 5..then slide him back to the 3, then back to a 4..we never allowed him to play continuously on one position which distorted his weight and role every other season.
He can handle criticism, give him the hard treatment of having to earn his minutes at the beginning of his rookie campaign instead of feeding him minutes as our "#1" guy. Show him that if you aren't hustling, throwing your body around and not setting hard screens, your're going to sit #1 pick or not.

Emphasize the importance of rebounding..pair him up in summer training with Reggie Evans Ben wallace, dennis rodman..I really dont care...have him just practice boxing out and developing a feel for where the ball is likely going to end up and having him rebound it.
Cut down his drinking.
And have him study tape of himself; to see "how he could position himself to be better in a certain situation to improve his help D and work on his footwork, have him work with defensive gurus and being taught when to slide for the help, learning when to trap etc.
Bargnani is a type of player who will do what he's asked, but he will never do anything more, so as ardious as it sounds, the coaches should jsut sit there and give him a daily workout schedule to do daily and monitor him like a child and if everything works out..
Behold...
A bargnani who rebounds, has adequate help D, hustles and has a good offensive game, a perennial all star.
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Post#40 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 9:47 pm by Rapsalot

Draft Aldrigde in the first place as I would have!
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Post#41 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:00 pm by Yoga

Never turn him into the focal point of the offense. Turn him into a 6th man candidate year-in-year-out...that should be the goal and is his ceiling. Beside instant offense off the bench, he is a black hole
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Post#42 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:17 pm by Salted Meat

Neutral 123 wrote:
Salted Meat wrote:I certainly wouldn't have put him in a situation where he had to play out of position from day 1. if I decided I was drafting (and keeping) Bargnani, I'd have looked to trade Bosh for as high a draft pick, or as good a collection of young assets as possible. Tanked again for another year, and had a chance at landing Durant or Oden.

What is his position? People are still debating this till this day. I honestly don't know why anyone would in hindsight still try to work with this guy. Don't draft him. If this assumes you had to draft him, then trade him asap. If it means you have to keep him for a while, then you have him come off the bench. Basically, the least Bargs the better.


Bargnani is a stretch 4. That much should be obvious. In hindsight, yeah, I probably don't draft a guy who plays the same position as my best player, but we did, and the question is about how we could have developed him better. Its easy to say we should have never drafted him, but that doesn't really offer any insight, does it? If, even in hindsight, the Raptors would have still selected Bargnani, and still had the intention of developing him, then you have to work with it.

If we're working under the premise that Bargnani is a halfway decent talent who could have been a very good player had he been developed differently, then you play him at his natural position, the 4 spot, and force feed him minutes to see what he can do, and surround him with players who complement his style of play. You certainly don't pair him with another face-up big who plays away from the basket and expect him to adjust to playing two completely different positions in the same year. How many guys in the NBA play a combo of SF and C who have little to no experience playing either position before entering the league? Bargnani was doomed to fail.
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Post#43 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:18 pm by Tacoma

Neutral 123 wrote:
Salted Meat wrote:I certainly wouldn't have put him in a situation where he had to play out of position from day 1. if I decided I was drafting (and keeping) Bargnani, I'd have looked to trade Bosh for as high a draft pick, or as good a collection of young assets as possible. Tanked again for another year, and had a chance at landing Durant or Oden.

What is his position? People are still debating this till this day. I honestly don't know why anyone would in hindsight still try to work with this guy. Don't draft him. If this assumes you had to draft him, then trade him asap. If it means you have to keep him for a while, then you have him come off the bench. Basically, the least Bargs the better.


Former Bargs supporters still believing and offering the same old excuse. Bargs isn't playing any better or different as a PF today than when he was playing C. He was a C/PF now he's a PF/C. Bargs plays the same way regardless of which position he plays. But Bargs excusers will always excuse.

Going back, Brandon Roy would've been a better choice even with those knees. He would've pair well with Bosh as the core and you still had Ford/Calderon, Parker off the bench. They would've been winning which would've attracted better free agents and they would've been title contenders for a few years in the lowly East Conference.
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Post#44 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:22 pm by StopitLeo

I sure as hell would have traded him instead of extending him.
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Post#45 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:43 pm by Neutral 123

Tacoma wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
Salted Meat wrote:I certainly wouldn't have put him in a situation where he had to play out of position from day 1. if I decided I was drafting (and keeping) Bargnani, I'd have looked to trade Bosh for as high a draft pick, or as good a collection of young assets as possible. Tanked again for another year, and had a chance at landing Durant or Oden.

What is his position? People are still debating this till this day. I honestly don't know why anyone would in hindsight still try to work with this guy. Don't draft him. If this assumes you had to draft him, then trade him asap. If it means you have to keep him for a while, then you have him come off the bench. Basically, the least Bargs the better.


Former Bargs supporters still believing and offering the same old excuse. Bargs isn't playing any better or different as a PF today than when he was playing C. He was a C/PF now he's a PF/C. Bargs plays the same way regardless of which position he plays. But Bargs excusers will always excuse.

Going back, Brandon Roy would've been a better choice even with those knees. He would've pair well with Bosh as the core and you still had Ford/Calderon, Parker off the bench. They would've been winning which would've attracted better free agents and they would've been title contenders for a few years in the lowly East Conference.

Yep, it's hilarious. Whether he's playing the 3,4, or 5, you'll see the same disinterested face hanging around the 3pt line chucking. It's bizarre how people still defend this guy.
To them, it's like everyone wants the money they are never going to make. amluvinit2 on the tea party..
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Post#46 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:48 pm by Neutral 123

Salted Meat wrote:
Neutral 123 wrote:
Salted Meat wrote:I certainly wouldn't have put him in a situation where he had to play out of position from day 1. if I decided I was drafting (and keeping) Bargnani, I'd have looked to trade Bosh for as high a draft pick, or as good a collection of young assets as possible. Tanked again for another year, and had a chance at landing Durant or Oden.

What is his position? People are still debating this till this day. I honestly don't know why anyone would in hindsight still try to work with this guy. Don't draft him. If this assumes you had to draft him, then trade him asap. If it means you have to keep him for a while, then you have him come off the bench. Basically, the least Bargs the better.


Bargnani is a stretch 4. That much should be obvious. In hindsight, yeah, I probably don't draft a guy who plays the same position as my best player, but we did, and the question is about how we could have developed him better. Its easy to say we should have never drafted him, but that doesn't really offer any insight, does it? If, even in hindsight, the Raptors would have still selected Bargnani, and still had the intention of developing him, then you have to work with it.

If we're working under the premise that Bargnani is a halfway decent talent who could have been a very good player had he been developed differently, then you play him at his natural position, the 4 spot, and force feed him minutes to see what he can do, and surround him with players who complement his style of play. You certainly don't pair him with another face-up big who plays away from the basket and expect him to adjust to playing two completely different positions in the same year. How many guys in the NBA play a combo of SF and C who have little to no experience playing either position before entering the league? Bargnani was doomed to fail.

Well at least you admit he's failed. The guy has played the exact same way regardless of his assigned position. You'll never lose Bargs. You know where to find him. He'll be hanging around at the 3 point line with his hands up ready to chuck up another 3. That never changed. Bosh and Bargs was bad for winning, not for Bargs' development. He was force fed minutes, still is. And why would you take a role player and build your roster to suit him? He's not a guy you build around. None of this makes any sense.
To them, it's like everyone wants the money they are never going to make. amluvinit2 on the tea party..
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Post#47 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:48 pm by StatLine

Really, Colangelo is what hindered his development. He babied him too much to a point bargnani became comfortable enough to not give a damn about rebounding because he wont be held accountable regardless of who's coach. He's the spoiled kid who gets things not because he wants it, but because he can. Colangelo is a cancer.
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Post#48 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Tue Jan 22, 2013 10:53 pm by wolfv

We already had a young PF who was much better. I wanted Rudy Gay, but now looking back maybe trade that worthless pick
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Post#49 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:14 am by lucky777s

If you are going back in time you just don't draft him.

But if you can only go back to a point after the draft...you trade him.

Otherwise, if you draft a SF you play him at SF and train him to be a SF. You work him hard on his agility and dribble drives and give him a couple of post moves for when he has a small guy on him. You bench him when he doesn't play with energy and bounce.

You look at early Bargs video and you see a guy who pursued blocks and rebounds. You see a guy who played with some fire. You want him to be Dirk 2.0 you have him train with Dirk in the offseason or with Dirk's longtime trainer. I though Alex English could have been a good mentor too for him but that did not happen.

If he naturally evolves into a PF then you trade him or trade Bosh earlier when he clearly was not going to sign that next extension.

Really the Bargs mistake is something we could have overcome if BC did not blow all our cap space on shortsighted moves and give away so many draft picks.
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Post#50 Re: If you could go back in time...how to han
Wed Jan 23, 2013 12:24 am by Mr.Raptorsingh

Y'all just watch - The 'Nani will come back with a vengeance, and dominate like he has never before. #the return
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