OT - Morey or Colangelo???

[Rapsdaman]

All i can say is that he lost 2 superstars in 2009, and recovered and they are a better team then we are right now with the Cap space to still sign another max contract. We on the other hand lost one allstar in 2010, but are almost capped out with nothing more then a treadmill team that still isnt better the rockets right now. Nuff said!

[Rapcity_11]

We'll if OKC and Harden can come to an agreement it makes his clearing salary moot unless the plan was to rebuild because there's no way Howard goes there. The roster moves weren't **** individually, but collectively it all added up to a mediocre team. Teams with mediocre rosters don't have good GMs. The Harden trade is the only good move I can't think of maybe unless I'm forgetting something. It also matters that he fired two superior coaches and hired McHale.

You can't hypothetically pretend they didn't get Harden. The fact is that Morey put them in a position to get a superstar and when the opportunity came up, they did.

As far as good moves:

Signing Asik
Drafting Parsons and signing him to an amazing contract.
Traded Brooks for Dragic and a 1st
T-Mac trade

Considering how little fans know about coaching quality and the success that McHale is having, I don't really see an issue.

People tend to forget that as recently as 09 this was the T-Mac/Yao squad that was a fringe contender. Considering how much the team has changed while collecting assets, while staying above .500, that is a huge success.

[Rapcity_11]

So Presti just fell into everything? I get the Durant pick because they probably pick Oden if they get #1, but does he get any credit for Westbrook over Bayless or trading Ray Allen for a pick? Even pulling the trigger early on a Harden trade instead of waiting until free agency and getting a worse return was an underrated move. Anyway I'll always pick the guy that was trained by R.C. Buford.

No, Presti didn't just fall into everything. Don't put words in my mouth. Presti is easily one of the top GM's in the league, as is Morey. The fact is that getting 4 top 5 picks right in the first 3 years as GM does make things way easier, especially having KG fall into his lap.

Sure, he gets a ton of credit for the Westbrook pick. It was great. As was his re-sign of Collison.

For the Green pick? Brutal, guy is terrible.

With Harden the situation wasn't WHEN to trade him, it was IF to trade him. There were plenty of options available that didn't involve trading Harden. He **** up.

[DonMega]

Yes, a pylon would do a better job than BC

[ReggieSlater]

Straw man defeated. Well done OP.

[knickerbocker2k2]

I'm not sure what Morey was doing in the previous years, but in 2 years he has accumulated the following assets without high lottery picks:

-PG: Lin
-SG: Harden
-SF: Parsons
-PF: Thomas Robinson
-C: Asik

Plus following lottery level talent/prospects: Terrence Jones / Greg Smith / Donatas Motiejunas / Royce White

And the have approx $30M in capspace to go after FA. They could add one/two from this class

-Howard
-Josh Smith
-Al Jefferson
-Paul Millsap

[DatBoiCapspace]

Presti gets points for drafting well. loved the westbrook and harden picks at the time. But green was nothing special and it was probably a mistake to pay ibaka over harden although ibaka is playing well this year. But if he didnt luck into Durant, that team is not a real contender. The Allen trade was crap also. It was only good because it helped them tank, but green is not good value for prime Allen.

What Morey does takes alot less luck then presti, he's a high roller intent on gaining assets to acquire all star talent. He has great value sense, even when he overpays for guys its for young high reward talent like lin and asik. BC is very similar to Morey except Morey seems to think a few steps ahead more and doesn't fall in love with his own talent and has better value sense. BC in phx was pretty much the Morey of the day, but in TO I think ownership historically has been more shortsighted and looser with the purse strings, which gives bc the ability to make laundry fields type moves and extend dd prematurely. BC also has a phenomenal draft record, he could easily build presti style, problem is depending on your draft year your team could easily end up as the next bobcats instead of the next okc. The other thing that handicaps bc here is that Houston is a much more desirable market then TO for many players. We could have harden here and capspace next year but no way Dwight would consider coming, so it's not fair to compare these guys on a level playing field, ownership and market play a huge role in their strategies.

I wouldn't mind moving on from bc, but if you guys think it will be for a presti type, I find that hard to believe that's who mlse will hire. Atleast BC has a good draft record for when we do end up in the lottery, would much prefer him to a Babcock type who tries to build through the draft but has no eye for talent.

[TylerTheDebater]

Colangelo's time in Toronto has always been "make a move to win now", except they never work out and his moves have just been a snowball of "make a move to win now" until it's become a giant "roll the dice to save my job" avalanche.

Dork Elvis has a long term plan that is coming into it's final stages: they have a 1st tier superstar in Harden from assets collected from young players with potential, an above average PG in Jeremy Lin (who's regaining his form the last little bit, under the radar), a top-5 defensive big in Asik and a crapload of youth ready to get packaged together for the final star he covets. Not to mention: max-contract cap space.

How did Morey get Houston to this point? Being patient and waiting for steals from other teams looking to dump salary or being stupid. Colangelo has instead generally traded youth with potential for crappy or washed up vets, while overpaying for mediocre players and resigning guys to deals who don't deserve the money paid.

Morey and Colangelo are polar opposites of how to GM, and while both ways CAN work, Morey is also Colangelo's polar opposite in how to do it in that he's done it right, and successfully.

[dafan590]

It helps when the team locates in the US.

[dat90zKiD]

I cant believe 9 people actually voted BC. NINE people. SMH at you guys

[Rapsalot]

Laughable

[lander]

So Presti just fell into everything? I get the Durant pick because they probably pick Oden if they get #1, but does he get any credit for Westbrook over Bayless or trading Ray Allen for a pick? Even pulling the trigger early on a Harden trade instead of waiting until free agency and getting a worse return was an underrated move. Anyway I'll always pick the guy that was trained by R.C. Buford.

No, Presti didn't just fall into everything. Don't put words in my mouth. Presti is easily one of the top GM's in the league, as is Morey. The fact is that getting 4 top 5 picks right in the first 3 years as GM does make things way easier, especially having KG fall into his lap.

Sure, he gets a ton of credit for the Westbrook pick. It was great. As was his re-sign of Collison.

For the Green pick? Brutal, guy is terrible.

With Harden the situation wasn't WHEN to trade him, it was IF to trade him. There were plenty of options available that didn't involve trading Harden. He **** up.

Yes those picks make it easier, but you still have to make the decision to rebuild. Morey could've too right? His draft picks have been bad except Parsons; jury is out on this year's picks since its too early. For years he picked up players just to keep them mediocre fighting for a low seed playoff spot. He's not good if he doesn't make that Harden trade and one good move doesn't make you that much better. I will say he still did one good move more than Colangelo so that's why he is better. Top 5 picks are not as fool proof as you try to make it sound. There have been countless top 5 busts in the draft. Harden absolutely had to be traded because the Thunder owner did not want to pay the punitive tax. It's real money and Harden is not Durant or Westbrook. So he said no thanks and Presti had to follow his bosses call. It was not up to him since he does not write the checks.

[Dear Leader]

That's like asking, "Cake or a pile of dog sh*t?"

What if you desperately need to lose weight and are fertilizing a garden?

[Volcano]

this was a clever way of determining how many members of the Raps organization post here

[Rapcity_11]

Yes those picks make it easier, but you still have to make the decision to rebuild. Morey could've too right?

He's done what's even better; skip the rebuild and re-tool successfully on the fly. Do you not understand how impressive it is to go from semi-contender with T-Mac/Yao in 09 AKA 4 year ago, to where they are now, without tanking? Hell, they've stayed over .500 the whole time.

His draft picks have been bad except Parsons; jury is out on this year's picks since its too early.

Brooks at 26 was a good pick. So was Landry at 31. PP at 14 is decent. Same with Morris. Budinger was nice in round 2.

Where are the bad picks?

For years he picked up players just to keep them mediocre fighting for a low seed playoff spot. He's not good if he doesn't make that Harden trade and one good move doesn't make you that much better.

But he did make the trade. That's the whole point. And it's not just 1 good move. It was a series of moves leading up to that. Houston is also in a GREAT position this summer.

Top 5 picks are not as fool proof as you try to make it sound. There have been countless top 5 busts in the draft.

Ah, putting words in my mouth again. I do not think top 5 picks are fool proof. Westbrook was a great pick, and so was Harden. But you do realize that immediately after Presti became GM that KD fell into his lap, right?

Harden absolutely had to be traded because the Thunder owner did not want to pay the punitive tax. It's real money and Harden is not Durant or Westbrook. So he said no thanks and Presti had to follow his bosses call. It was not up to him since he does not write the checks.

As I've already pointed out multiple times, there were various ways for them to keep Harden without going into the tax.

Harden is better than Westbrook, I should add.

[billy_hoyle]

So Morey takes a 6 game over .500 team trades the starting backcourt (Lowry + Martin), drops a solid starting PF (Scola) and turns them into a 6 game over .500 team and he's a genius? Right....

[Raps in 4]

So Morey takes a 6 game over .500 team trades the starting backcourt (Lowry + Martin), drops a solid starting PF (Scola) and turns them into a 6 game over .500 team and he's a genius? Right....

The point is that he acquired an MVP-level franchise player. That should be the goal of every team. This is a star-driven league, and getting that superstar is by far the hardest part of building a contender.

[Rapcity_11]

So Morey takes a 6 game over .500 team trades the starting backcourt (Lowry + Martin), drops a solid starting PF (Scola) and turns them into a 6 game over .500 team and he's a genius? Right....

They were actually 2 games over .500 last year and 4 right now.

Anyways, to strip a team completely, jump on a trade for an MVP level player and have 20 million in cap-space with an attractive roster of young talent, yeah, pretty genius.

[billy_hoyle]

So Morey takes a 6 game over .500 team trades the starting backcourt (Lowry + Martin), drops a solid starting PF (Scola) and turns them into a 6 game over .500 team and he's a genius? Right....

The point is that he acquired an MVP-level franchise player. That should be the goal of every team. This is a star-driven league, and getting that superstar is by far the hardest part of building a contender.

Well consider me in the group that doesn't consider Harden to be a franchise MVP caliber player. He hasn't turned the needle on the Rockets winning % this year. Essentially, I take your point and turn it back at you, MVP's heavily influence the W/L column.

Now they do have cap space to add another All-Star in Josh Smith, but I don't give credit for "flexibility", just as likely they get an Amare or Boozer - nice but treadmill inducing. A term you seem to love.

[sanity]

Morey took over a team with 2 broken down max players... remained competitive (making the playoffs) despite the worst case scenarios of both of them completely breaking down and somehow managed to form the team he has now all the while being above .500 team the ENTIRE TIME. There was no period of sucking or tanking for them. That is what you call good, competent management.

People suggest WE tank because Bryan isn't savvy enough to pull off moves that puts this team in a better position to win. It is like training wheels for a GM to score out on a high draft pick because he's incapable of acquiring high-end talent otherwise.