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OT - Morey or Colangelo???

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Who's a better GM?

Morey
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82%
Colangelo
19
18%
 
Total votes: 108

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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#21 » by arbsn » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:53 pm

lander wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:Presti vs. Morey is a better question.


Hmm I would say that question is almost as bad as Morey vs BC. One good move doesn't make Morey anywhere near as good as Presti. Nor does that trade take the shine off Presti because he really had no choice. His owner didn't want to go into the tax.



I'd put Morey above Presti, personally.

Presti's GMing skills are highly overrated.

He got lucky with Durant by not winning the lottery and thus being forced to take Oden - everyone alive would've taken Durant 2nd

He took a can't-miss prospect in Westbrook, but even if he didn't take Russ, the next 3 prospects were Kevin Love, Danilo Galinari, and Eric Gordon - it's not like he would've shat the bed by taking either of those guys

Harden was a fantastic pick - but trading harden for Lamb and Martin was embarassing.

Ibaka was also a great pick at 24 but the players picked after him - Nicolas Batum and George Hill are every bit as good as Ibaka, in fact, Ibaka is one of the most overrated players in the NBA (they call him a defensive specialist but he is terrible at defense)

What else did he do with that team???? Nothing.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#22 » by Rapcity_11 » Thu Feb 21, 2013 10:59 pm

mtcan wrote:
Harden would not make the money he is making in Houston...and conversely...having a 6th man making $15 million a year is not smart use of your money. It would also mean that you give up on your defensive anchor Serge Ibaka.


Option 1: Amnesty Perkins, keep Harden.
Option 2: Trade Ibaka, keep Harden.
Option 3: Trade Westbrook who Harden has already surpassed and could have netted more in a trade.

All better options.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#23 » by TheGoodDoctor » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:07 pm

Stop trolling.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#24 » by mtcan » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:08 pm

arbsn wrote:
lander wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:Presti vs. Morey is a better question.


Hmm I would say that question is almost as bad as Morey vs BC. One good move doesn't make Morey anywhere near as good as Presti. Nor does that trade take the shine off Presti because he really had no choice. His owner didn't want to go into the tax.



I'd put Morey above Presti, personally.

Presti's GMing skills are highly overrated.

He got lucky with Durant by not winning the lottery and thus being forced to take Oden - everyone alive would've taken Durant 2nd

He took a can't-miss prospect in Westbrook, but even if he didn't take Russ, the next 3 prospects were Kevin Love, Danilo Galinari, and Eric Gordon - it's not like he would've shat the bed by taking either of those guys

Harden was a fantastic pick - but trading harden for Lamb and Martin was embarassing.

Ibaka was also a great pick at 24 but the players picked after him - Nicolas Batum and George Hill are every bit as good as Ibaka, in fact, Ibaka is one of the most overrated players in the NBA (they call him a defensive specialist but he is terrible at defense)

What else did he do with that team???? Nothing.


Actually, I don't think the Harden trade is as bad for OKC as you make it out. No...Kevin Martin is NO James Harden...but his scoring and ability to shoot the 3 easily replaces Harden's production from last year. There is NO drop off in point production from last season...and Martin makes less than what Harden would have resigned for in OKC. Jeremy Lamb might be able to produce in a 6th man role in the coming years...and our lottery pick is a huge plus. Presti got more for his 6th man than Babcock or Colangelo ever could for our alpha dogs, Vince Carter and Chris Bosh.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#25 » by Wo1verine » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:10 pm

:lol:
dTox wrote:That's like asking, "Cake or a pile of dog sh*t?"
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#26 » by RealSuperfan » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:11 pm

You've got to appreciate the fact that last year Houston was being dismissed by others as a potential destination for Dwight Howard, citing their inability to retain him among other reasons. Fast forward to this off-season and they'll have somewhere close to max depending on who they renounce to go along with a core of Lin/Harden/Parsons/Asik. He's done a wonderful job accumulating assets and he managed to turn some into James Harden. He's always maintained flexibility and that coupled with multiple 1st Round picks and young prospects made them a player in the Howard sweepstakes. He snagged a freshly drafted top 5 pick the day before and it's because of the Rockets' flexibility they were able to take advantage of an increasingly common problem. Give the man credit. I also like the fact that he doesn't overvalue his own prospects and understands the concept of losing something to gain something. He's always stuck to his guns it seems and it's finally paying off, Houston looks primed for big summer of 2013.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#27 » by Ditchweed » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:45 pm

dTox wrote:That's like asking, "Cake or a pile of dog sh*t?"


What if you desperately need to lose weight and are fertilizing a garden?
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#28 » by lander » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:52 pm

Rapcity_11 wrote:
lander wrote:Lol Morey was **** until that Harden trade. The man fired JVG and Addelman. Still he's in a different galaxy to Colangelo. I could do a better job than BC that's how bad he is.


What roster moves were ****?

Also, the events leading up to the Harden trade are what made that trade possible...


We'll if OKC and Harden can come to an agreement it makes his clearing salary moot unless the plan was to rebuild because there's no way Howard goes there. The roster moves weren't **** individually, but collectively it all added up to a mediocre team. Teams with mediocre rosters don't have good GMs. The Harden trade is the only good move I can't think of maybe unless I'm forgetting something. It also matters that he fired two superior coaches and hired McHale.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#29 » by Schad » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:53 pm

kush- wrote:
lander wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:Presti vs. Morey is a better question.


Hmm I would say that question is almost as bad as Morey vs BC. One good move doesn't make Morey anywhere near as good as Presti. Nor does that trade take the shine off Presti because he really had no choice. His owner didn't want to go into the tax.


Why are you guys giving Presti so much credit? His franchise tanked for almost a decade, and almost his entire roster is made up of quality 1st round picks. It doesn't take a genius to build an amazing team after having consecutive top 5 draft picks for years.

OKC is the Pittsburgh Penguins of the NBA.


They didn't tank for almost a decade...they were a competitive, borderline playoff team that won 50 games and went to the second round in 2005, before blowing it up. From 1991-2006, they had exactly one top ten draft pick: Mouhamed Saer Sene (and that was in 2006). They then preceded to tank for three years, got Durant/Westbrook/Harden out of those picks, and were straight back to competitiveness. Not a decade, three seasons.

Also: if tanking for three years and turning one's team into one of the top two clubs in the NBA is that easy, why in the **** are we not doing it now?
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#30 » by RaptorNews » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:57 pm

I have beef with Presti: he refuses to do what is necessary to win his team a championship right now. Lamb, PJIII, and the Toronto pick will never bring anything to that team. They needed to swap Perkins with these assets for a post presence a year ago.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#31 » by Chaos Engine » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:57 pm

Better question, Colangelo vs Petrie?
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#32 » by mtcan » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:59 pm

Add to that...Presti dealt Ray Allen, his top asset for another top 5 pick. He recognized that Allen had a ton of trade value and got top dollar for him. As I had written above...Sam Presti gets good value for his assets...moreso than our **** GMs of present and past. Why couldn't Babcock get a top 5 pick for VC? Why couldn't Colangelo turn Bosh into guys that could keep the team competitive for the playoffs instead of setting us down this road to rebuilding?

Sam Presti is what none of our GM's of the past ever were.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#33 » by LieCheatSteal » Thu Feb 21, 2013 11:59 pm

Who are the 6 who voted for Colangelo? They must be related to Colangelo.

Let's recap. The Raps are a losing team full of overpaid players, some of whom are blocking players who might actually have potential to play in this league. The Rockets have a nice core of justly paid players (Lin is arguable) and still have cap space and pieces to go all in on a max player or two.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#34 » by Raps in 4 » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:02 am

Morey was terrible until the Harden trade. Houston was the definition of a treadmill team. The Harden trade is the only good move he's made. However, it was a **** amazing move.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#35 » by lander » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:06 am

Rapcity_11 wrote:
lander wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:Presti vs. Morey is a better question.


Hmm I would say that question is almost as bad as Morey vs BC. One good move doesn't make Morey anywhere near as good as Presti. Nor does that trade take the shine off Presti because he really had no choice. His owner didn't want to go into the tax.


Things are pretty easy when you get handed Durant. Followed by 2 top 5 picks.

There's multiple ways the Thunder could have kept Harden and stayed out of the tax.


So Presti just fell into everything? I get the Durant pick because they probably pick Oden if they get #1, but does he get any credit for Westbrook over Bayless or trading Ray Allen for a pick? Even pulling the trigger early on a Harden trade instead of waiting until free agency and getting a worse return was an underrated move. Anyway I'll always pick the guy that was trained by R.C. Buford.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#36 » by lander » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:24 am

kush- wrote:
lander wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:Presti vs. Morey is a better question.


Hmm I would say that question is almost as bad as Morey vs BC. One good move doesn't make Morey anywhere near as good as Presti. Nor does that trade take the shine off Presti because he really had no choice. His owner didn't want to go into the tax.


Why are you guys giving Presti so much credit? His franchise tanked for almost a decade, and almost his entire roster is made up of quality 1st round picks. It doesn't take a genius to build an amazing team after having consecutive top 5 draft picks for years.

OKC is the Pittsburgh Penguins of the NBA.


Penguins were all no brainer picks. Presti took a huge risk on Westbrook who was not considered a top 5 pick. I supposed in your mind it is better to be a mediocre team that one day trades for an All Star. Should all the previous where the Rockets were crap seize to matter all of the sudden? How about the fact that he let two great coaches go and hired a leader one. How about the fact that for years his teams seemed to lack direction. Presti and the Thunder did tank but also never lacked direction. They've always known what their plan was it was to build through the draft to trade veterans for draft picks like Ray Allen for the 5the pick. Morey for years seemed confused. One move doesn't suddenly make him this uhmazing GM.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#37 » by lander » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:33 am

arbsn wrote:
lander wrote:
Rapcity_11 wrote:Presti vs. Morey is a better question.


Hmm I would say that question is almost as bad as Morey vs BC. One good move doesn't make Morey anywhere near as good as Presti. Nor does that trade take the shine off Presti because he really had no choice. His owner didn't want to go into the tax.



I'd put Morey above Presti, personally.

Presti's GMing skills are highly overrated.

He got lucky with Durant by not winning the lottery and thus being forced to take Oden - everyone alive would've taken Durant 2nd

He took a can't-miss prospect in Westbrook, but even if he didn't take Russ, the next 3 prospects were Kevin Love, Danilo Galinari, and Eric Gordon - it's not like he would've shat the bed by taking either of those guys

Harden was a fantastic pick - but trading harden for Lamb and Martin was embarassing.

Ibaka was also a great pick at 24 but the players picked after him - Nicolas Batum and George Hill are every bit as good as Ibaka, in fact, Ibaka is one of the most overrated players in the NBA (they call him a defensive specialist but he is terrible at defense)

What else did he do with that team???? Nothing.


George hill is not as good as Ibaka. George Hill seriously overrated. At least Ibaka does what his position requires of him. George Hill cannot be confused for a point guard. He's an undersized shooting guard and not even that good at it. Though Ibaka is overrated as well he gives OKC something they need which a lane intimidator, that grabs rebounds plays solid and can't hit that midrange extremely well.
While I agree about Durant if you think Westbrook was a can't miss then you weren't paying attention to that draft the consensus guy for everyone was Bayless he was the PG of choice for scouts. Westbrook was supposed to be picked much later in the draft. They had no idea of he could even play point because he was a shooting guard at UCLA.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#38 » by hillbilly hare » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:34 am

UssjTrunks wrote:Morey was terrible until the Harden trade. Houston was the definition of a treadmill team. The Harden trade is the only good move he's made. However, it was a **** amazing move.


That's all the more reason to admire what Morey has done the last few years. It should've been a lot harder for a team to get off the treadmill and take it to the next level, as compared to a bottom-feeder like the Raptors, who had better lottery picks.

But no, Colangelo hasn't even been within shouting distance of Morey.

What's the blueprint for a rebuild? Acquire draft picks, accumulate assets, clear cap space. Which is exactly what Morey did in just a little over 2 years. While Colangelo has been flailing and grasping at straws and looking totally lost.

We all know that Morey had 3 first-rounders this year, and got our first next year too. But he also had 2 first-rounders and an early 2nd in 2011, and the 2nd rounder was Parsons, so it was like having 3 first rounders. That's 6 in 2 years. And none of them were high lottery picks.

He accumulated young prospects via the draft and picks thru trades, and in 2 years had enough assets to swing the Harden deal.

He cleared cap space at the right time and last off-season was in a position to sign their starting C and PG. And even better, he signed them to contracts that will still give Houston tons of cap space this off-season too. Just a fantastic job.

And the saddest thing about all this, in the Morey/Colangelo debate, is that we were in a position last off-season to do the EXACT same things that Houston did. Lots of people here targeted Asik as a guy to go after in free agency, as the perfect young vet to start and let Jonas develop over the next couple years. Lots of people wanted us to get Drummond in the draft, as the best prospect with the most upside and, possibly, the most trade value. With Asik and Drummond (or Jonas) at center, that would've meant Jonas (or Drummond) would've been available in a trade for Harden, e.g. Jonas + Demar + a pick (which I think beats Houston's package). We had the cap space to sign a free agent PG, though few had Lin as a target. Most people were talking about Lowry via trade, or Dragic via free agency. Most agreed Lowry was the better player, but had injury concerns and would cost us an asset in the trade.

If we had had Morey at the helm, I think he would've drafted Drummond with an eye to building a trade package. It was rumored he was trying to trade up to 5 with the Kings, in order to draft Drummond. I doubt he would've even considered Howard (who wouldn't have wanted to be here), though obviously Harden would be the ultimate target. Basically, we could be the Rockets, with Harden, Asik and Lin, but with much better depth throughout the rest of the lineup (Jose, Ed, Amir, Andrea). Where would that put us in the standings in the weaker East?
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#39 » by Truthrising » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:36 am

Should this even be a legit question??? As other posters have said only those who are related to Colangelo must have for him.
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Re: OT - Morey or Colangelo??? 

Post#40 » by mtcan » Fri Feb 22, 2013 12:38 am

Morey's body of work is more than just James Harden. It's him dumping veterans and lining up draft picks and prospects along with some ballsy free agent acquisitions.

How did Houston end up with 3 first round draft picks this past draft (one of which was part of the Harden deal)?

How did they end up with one of the best defensive centers and rebounders in the league (Asik averaging a double double)?

Chandler Parsons is the ultimate glue guy...their starting SF averaging 14 ppt, 5 rpg and almost 4 apg in his sophomore season...and he's a 2nd round pick!!! How's that for drafting???

Lin is a decent PG but fits next to Harden.

Then there's a group of good young prospects in Terrence Jones, Donatas Montejunas, even Royce White (if he ever plays)! Now you add Thomas Robinson...a top 3 pick in this draft?!?

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