The KD/Lebron era and why what we're doing is smart

[trick]

I used to wonder why so many people here waste so much of their lives following a bad basketball team they so apparently dislike. I've spent a little time thinking about it and I think the only rational reason why a huge segment of the realgm fanbase keeps religiously posting is that they enjoy the losing. They enjoy it because watching basketball games is not the primary motivation in being a raptors fan

They like the firebc fan petitions and being able to log on here and critique bad trades and signings. They like revisiting past mistakes and of imagining alternate fantasy scenerios of how this team could've ended up if a better GM was in charge...that better gm invariably being themselves. I think more than anything, they like the role playing aspect of being a "real gm". I think the general structure of this forum, the hyperattention to cap details and hypothetical trades supports that idea (as an aside, is there anything more ridiculous than coming up with fake "trades"? Why guys? What is the endgame here? LOL)

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think that the devoted "real gm's" here are engaging in something distinctly different from following a sports team. Maybe something more akin to a sports themed role playing game. Like dungeons and dragons with advanced statistics.

Let's not forget,
-RealCoach - where their playbook and coaching is much better than the current coaches, despite not having participated in any practice setting or video sessioni
-RealScout - the ability to flip through various sports channels gives them a keen eye on the talent level of other teams and their players in comparison to this team, and how it's always so much better

[Suga2Panda]

I used to wonder why so many people here waste so much of their lives following a bad basketball team they so apparently dislike. I've spent a little time thinking about it and I think the only rational reason why a huge segment of the realgm fanbase keeps religiously posting is that they enjoy the losing. They enjoy it because watching basketball games is not the primary motivation in being a raptors fan

They like the firebc fan petitions and being able to log on here and critique bad trades and signings. They like revisiting past mistakes and of imagining alternate fantasy scenerios of how this team could've ended up if a better GM was in charge...that better gm invariably being themselves. I think more than anything, they like the role playing aspect of being a "real gm". I think the general structure of this forum, the hyperattention to cap details and hypothetical trades supports that idea (as an aside, is there anything more ridiculous than coming up with fake "trades"? Why guys? What is the endgame here? LOL)

The more I think about it, the more I'm starting to think that the devoted "real gm's" here are engaging in something distinctly different from following a sports team. Maybe something more akin to a sports themed role playing game. Like dungeons and dragons with advanced statistics.

So anyone who has developed intellectually since high school should stfu?

[J-Roc]

I love when people bring up examples of Washington and Charlotte and ask mockingly if we should build like them, tanking and drafting.

Are the Toronto Raptors really any better off than those teams? Wasn't long ago Raps fans thought we were ahead of Cleveland in a rebuild. Maybe some still think it. No doubt some thought and still think we're better off than the Pacers.

[Scase]

So basically there are huge superstars in the league (as there are every "era") so we should just not bother trying cause it's futile and be happy with mediocrity?

Got it.

[Double Helix]

Back to the main topic...

What makes more sense? Tanking next year, the year after that, and 2015 so that the players acquired in those years (likely aged 19-20) are all asking for lengthy extensions right as Lebron's turning 32 and KD's turning 27, or instead enjoying a couple seasons of playoff basketball during this new Bird/Magic-esque rivalry and instead tanking in 2016, 2017, and 2018 so that those new prospects are all rising up as KD is turning 30?

How long-term are we willing to go? It all ultimately comes down to tanking consecutively at the right time and lucking into the right players in the right draft classes.

[DatBoiCapspace]

I love when people bring up examples of Washington and Charlotte and ask mockingly if we should build like them, tanking and drafting.

Are the Toronto Raptors really any better off than those teams? Wasn't long ago Raps fans thought we were ahead of Cleveland in a rebuild. Maybe some still think it. No doubt some thought and still think we're better off than the Pacers.

What makes the Pacers or the Cavs so much better off then we are exactly? None of us are real contenders, at least we recently beat the pacers in their building and have been 6-3 with our new team. Cleveland probably wont even make the playoffs next year and isnt a lock to get a 2nd star in FA or the draft by any means. The difference between 2-8 in the east isnt all that much, and we project to be in that group with a young core that has room for improvement. I highly doubt most of you haters would be happier if we were Cavs fans right now, instead of being happy about Irving the board would probably be bitching non-stop about drafting TT over Jonas and Dion Waiters over Drummond.

[J-Roc]

I love when people bring up examples of Washington and Charlotte and ask mockingly if we should build like them, tanking and drafting.

Are the Toronto Raptors really any better off than those teams? Wasn't long ago Raps fans thought we were ahead of Cleveland in a rebuild. Maybe some still think it. No doubt some thought and still think we're better off than the Pacers.

What makes the Pacers or the Cavs so much better off then we are exactly? None of us are real contenders, at least we recently beat the pacers in their building and have been 6-3 with our new team. Cleveland probably wont even make the playoffs next year and isnt a lock to get a 2nd star in FA or the draft by any means. The difference between 2-8 in the east isnt all that much, and we project to be in that group with a young core that has room for improvement. I highly doubt most of you haters would be happier if we were Cavs fans right now, instead of being happy about Irving the board would probably be bitching non-stop about drafting TT over Jonas and Dion Waiters over Drummond.

Thanks for being my case in point.

[Homer Jay]

Back to the main topic...

What makes more sense? Tanking next year, the year after that, and 2015 so that the players acquired in those years (likely aged 19-20) are all asking for lengthy extensions right as Lebron's turning 32 and KD's turning 27, or instead enjoying a couple seasons of playoff basketball during this new Bird/Magic-esque rivalry and instead tanking in 2016, 2017, and 2018 so that those new prospects are all rising up as KD is turning 30?

How long-term are we willing to go? It all ultimately comes down to tanking consecutively at the right time with the right players.

Don't forget it is still a BUSINESS first and foremost. MLSE is here to make money. The old saying is "You can't rebuild in NY". Truth is you can't really do it in Toronto either. The media here pushes results on the readers/listeners/viewers. Because THEY want success to help them out as well. MLSE wants those seats filled and playoff gates going to the bottom line. I frankly think at this point that we have to go for some modicum of success. We have an opportunity after 2014-2015, with really only JVAL. TRoss (on rookie deals), and DD signed at that point, to rebuild. Let's roll the dice on the Rudy Gay era here. Hit the playoffs the next two years and hope somebody gets hurt on the other team.

[Homer Jay]

I love when people bring up examples of Washington and Charlotte and ask mockingly if we should build like them, tanking and drafting.

Are the Toronto Raptors really any better off than those teams? Wasn't long ago Raps fans thought we were ahead of Cleveland in a rebuild. Maybe some still think it. No doubt some thought and still think we're better off than the Pacers.

What makes the Pacers or the Cavs so much better off then we are exactly? None of us are real contenders, at least we recently beat the pacers in their building and have been 6-3 with our new team. Cleveland probably wont even make the playoffs next year and isnt a lock to get a 2nd star in FA or the draft by any means. The difference between 2-8 in the east isnt all that much, and we project to be in that group with a young core that has room for improvement. I highly doubt most of you haters would be happier if we were Cavs fans right now, instead of being happy about Irving the board would probably be bitching non-stop about drafting TT over Jonas and Dion Waiters over Drummond.

Thanks for being my case in point.

You didn't answer his question.... and his last sentence is so spectacularly on-point.

[DatBoiCapspace]

Back to the main topic...

What makes more sense? Tanking next year, the year after that, and 2015 so that the players acquired in those years (likely aged 19-20) are all asking for lengthy extensions right as Lebron's turning 32 and KD's turning 27, or instead enjoying a couple seasons of playoff basketball during this new Bird/Magic-esque rivalry and instead tanking in 2016, 2017, and 2018 so that those new prospects are all rising up as KD is turning 30?

How long-term are we willing to go? It all ultimately comes down to tanking consecutively at the right time and lucking into the right players in the right draft classes.

You just dont get it man.. ignorant homers like this are the reason this team will never win anything. Well never win anything with bargnani on this team, if he gets traded well never win anything with casey as coach, if he gets replaced well never will anything with BC as GM, if he gets fired and we trade our whole team and tank well never win anything owned by MLSE, if the team gets sold to new rich owners well never win anything in TO, and look at all the losing seasons weve piled up while tanking! What a joke! Well never win anything and im gonna keep watching and posting and cheering for us to lose because thatll score me points on an internet forum. If you dont get that then youre just an ig'nant homer bro.

[Basketball_Jones]

I love when people bring up examples of Washington and Charlotte and ask mockingly if we should build like them, tanking and drafting.

Are the Toronto Raptors really any better off than those teams? Wasn't long ago Raps fans thought we were ahead of Cleveland in a rebuild. Maybe some still think it. No doubt some thought and still think we're better off than the Pacers.

Raps fans have some arrogance to them when it comes to this team, no doubt. I used to be the same way years ago. I'm not blind though. Team record speaks for itself, there isn't much to be proud of.

[DatBoiCapspace]

I love when people bring up examples of Washington and Charlotte and ask mockingly if we should build like them, tanking and drafting.

Are the Toronto Raptors really any better off than those teams? Wasn't long ago Raps fans thought we were ahead of Cleveland in a rebuild. Maybe some still think it. No doubt some thought and still think we're better off than the Pacers.

Raps fans have some arrogance to them when it comes to this team, no doubt. I used to be the same way years ago. I'm not blind though. Team record speaks for itself, there isn't much to be proud of.

If the team record speaks for itself then why would you be against trades that make the team better and for tanking? Weve been tanking for two years, I dont see how tanking for 3-4 more will make the team record better. If youre for championship or bust then become a Heat fan and then whatever bandwagon team comes after them. In the meantime I'll enjoy a competitive exciting ball club that plays hard. We havent had that for a long time and im not about to start bitching now that we finally got a team worth tuning in for again.

[Basketball_Jones]

If the team record speaks for itself then why would you be against trades that make the team better and for tanking? Weve been tanking for two years, I dont see how tanking for 3-4 more will make the team record better. If youre for championship or bust then become a Heat fan and then whatever bandwagon team comes after them. In the meantime I'll enjoy a competitive exciting ball club that plays hard. We havent had that for a long time and im not about to start bitching now that we finally got a team worth tuning in for again.

1. The tanking has been terribly done. Not a top 3 pick and we got stuck with Terrence Ross instead of another prospect of Jonas caliber.
2. I'm for a competitive team as well but I'm not sold on Rudy Gay leading this team. The record does speak for itself so it is funny hearing fans thumb their noses at other teams when the Raptors have done nothing of significance in years.
3. I follow a ton of teams so it's not a matter of being a fan of just a team that wins. I just enjoy basketball and live in Toronto.

[CanadaB-Ball]

Yes, genius, let's settle for mediocrity!

The new goal should no longer to be to win anything meaningful, it should now be to compete for a place on that treadmill!

[DatBoiCapspace]

Yes, genius, let's settle for mediocrity!

The new goal should no longer to be to win anything meaningful, it should now be to compete for a place on that treadmill!

Maybe the problem is no one on this board has used a treadmill before, so they dont quite understand the proper use of the term "treadmill team"..

[Los Manos]

There is a type of poster here that will forever be more focused on a players flaws than how he positively impacts the game. Which isn't to say that an optimistic fan is blind to those concerns but if you're winning and your focus is still solely on what areas statistically a player is below league average, then at what point does that cross the line from constructive criticism into trolling? I agree that the focus should be on a teams failings at a time when they are losing and is constructive but if that continues into a time of optimism and winning then to me it crosses that line.

Since the big roster shakeup we've been on a 5 game win streak and beaten some very tough defensive teams and hold a winning record. Right now should be a time to have greater emphasis on this board of the reasons why we're winning. I say emphasis because the concerns still need attention too. Yet right now this board seems really off-balance with its focus far more on the flaws of the players, coaches & management. There is always room for criticism because nothing is ever perfect in sports. But the unwavering line of negativity, rubbishing of our players and focus on every bad management decision by some posters feels really mis-placed with the overall optimism that exists in the fan-base.

We are entering good times and that should be more recognised around here instead of that view being treated by some like the minority voice of the naive.

[Joker]

The "Durant era" --- could we have had a shot at drafting him? Oh yeah, we didn't have a pick that year, and had used patchwork to craft a treadmill team for the 2006-2007 season. Glad we took ourselves out of the running for someone of his caliber --- allows us to create "Durant era" threads like this

[DatBoiCapspace]

If the team record speaks for itself then why would you be against trades that make the team better and for tanking? Weve been tanking for two years, I dont see how tanking for 3-4 more will make the team record better. If youre for championship or bust then become a Heat fan and then whatever bandwagon team comes after them. In the meantime I'll enjoy a competitive exciting ball club that plays hard. We havent had that for a long time and im not about to start bitching now that we finally got a team worth tuning in for again.

1. The tanking has been terribly done. Not a top 3 pick and we got stuck with Terrence Ross instead of another prospect of Jonas caliber.
2. I'm for a competitive team as well but I'm not sold on Rudy Gay leading this team. The record does speak for itself so it is funny hearing fans thumb their noses at other teams when the Raptors have done nothing of significance in years.
3. I follow a ton of teams so it's not a matter of being a fan of just a team that wins. I just enjoy basketball and live in Toronto.

1. Ya stupid tank job! didnt they know they were supposed to win the lottery in '11 instead of slip from 3-5!!!! It was totally in their control!
2. ummm well you could be right and I have my doubts as well, but so far the record with Gay is 6-3 against good teams, so if you think the record speaks for itself then you should be jumping for joy right now if you actually wanted a competitive team.
3. No problem with that. None of us here are arrogant or blind, were simply fed up with people complaining when the team does things that so blatantly improve the on court product because certain fans are of the opinion that tanking is the only way to build a team and we should continue to do so until we have 3 HOF players. If youre one of those "fans", and im not saying you but just in general, then maybe you should stop following the raptors because they dont plan on tanking next year for Wiggins.

[CanadaB-Ball]

Yes, genius, let's settle for mediocrity!

The new goal should no longer to be to win anything meaningful, it should now be to compete for a place on that treadmill!

Maybe the problem is no one on this board has used a treadmill before, so they dont quite understand the proper use of the term "treadmill team"..

Never really taking that next step/getting anywhere.

The Atlanta Hawks had a better team than the Raptors currently have for quite a few seasons, but they were a treadmill team and never really did anything significant. Excuse me for wanting something a little more.

[DatBoiCapspace]

Yes, genius, let's settle for mediocrity!

The new goal should no longer to be to win anything meaningful, it should now be to compete for a place on that treadmill!

Maybe the problem is no one on this board has used a treadmill before, so they dont quite understand the proper use of the term "treadmill team"..

Never really taking that next step/getting anywhere.

The Atlanta Hawks had a better team than the Raptors currently have for quite a few seasons, but they were a treadmill team and never really did anything significant. Excuse me for wanting something a little more.

We are still moving forward as a team. Do you expect us to finish 10th next year? Most people would say we will be higher. Plus we have young assets, a young core and financial flexibilty to fill a need in a couple years. A lot of things have to happen before we become a treadmill team. Way to premature to call us one now, we havent even started running yet.