The KD/Lebron era and why what we're doing is smart

[IntricateOh25]

Ah I love all the RealGM heavy weights going at it.

But I tend to agree more with DH on this. Yeah, you could look to the past and point out all the wrong doings, but the reality is BC will likely be retained. The roster we have now includes our core for the near future and BC is going to continue steering this ship. Unfortunately, complaints are not going to be the ice burg that sinks the ship. This fan base has grown to hate Bargnani, management knows this, and regardless, Andrea is still a part of the team. They make the decisions. We live with their decisions. And this is where DH's argument about 'supporting the team' comes in.

Since Rudy has arrived, the Raptors have become a fun brand of basketball to watch and to root for. That alone is enough to be optimistic as a fan. Look a little bit deeper to the development of our young players like Val, Ross, and DeMar and there's a lot to be desired for the present and future. Bargnani will either embrace his 6th man role or find a new home come the off-season. Aside from him, this is a super athletic squad of up-and-coming talent. If we stop playing historian for one second and look at what's in front of us, it's something to get excited about.

I don't expect to win a championship any time soon, mostly due to points in the OP, but this team is fun to watch with young players who will continue making the Toronto Raptors a fun team to watch for years to come. I enjoy being a Raptors fan, through thick and thin. But to enjoy what we have now and what we might have in the future, you have to let go of shortcomings in the past and stop being so overly critical of things that cannot be changed and will not be questioned by the people who matter.

If you want a championship contender right now and have grown impatient, maybe it truly is time to bandwagon another team. Complaining and getting stressed out over the reality of our situation is not going to benefit you, or anyone else. Rooting for YOUR team is what professional sports is about and that's really where the enjoyment comes into play.

[ATLTimekeeper]

That fact is, many of us view the Raptors the way MBA students approach a case study.

The MBA students I come across are far less bitchy about their case studies. I can't speak for DH, but my feeling is that it has nothing to do with "studying" a "case" and more to do with people honestly feeling like they could do better than what's actually being done. It's an ego trip. It's called RealGM. Throw in some Canadian insecurity and American media dismissiveness and it leads to a prickly board at times. Still, it's all in fun. This is a passtime and maybe what DH is saying is that if you don't like what you see and are generally bummed out about it then maybe there's a better way to spend your time. My feeling is the reason why people don't just tune out for good is that they actually believe that their dollar/time/opinion will change the course of the franchise for the better. Or they're addicted to the trainwreck. Or they have nothing else better to do.

[CLIN]

This is an overreaction, people got a right to be mad, the debbie downers are negated by the new rudy horde.

And really, how did the thunder get KD? how did the spurs get duncan? how did the mavs get dirk? Gotta draft to win if you're a crappy franchise/not desirable location. Only the top 5 or so locations can build like the raptors are. You guys are locked in. I would be upset too for losing a chance to draft a real difference maker next year.

[DatBoiCapspace]

I like it when the Raptors do good things, like win games, make a good trade, make a smart draft choice or sign a good free agent. I don't like it when the Raptors do bad things, like lose games, make bad trades, make a poor draft selection or sign useless free agents.

Tell me, what has happened more recently, the Raptors doing good things? Or the Raptors doing bad things? The Raptors have lost more games than they have won, passed on Drummond last draft, do not have a draft pick this season, and signed Landry Fields to a 20 million dollar contract. A 9 game sample size (most of them at home) against teams that were missing their best players isn't going to make me ignore the overwhelming bad things that Bryan Colangelo has done.

I don't like being critical. I would absolutely love it if the Raptors were competitive, and I could simply talk about how great the team was. Unfortunately, the team isn't good and I don't like sugarcoating turds.

The only evidence we have to go by is the 9 games because thats the amount this current team has played. And the schedule was tough, you forgot IND and NYK with their all-stars, no one expected them to play this good. I am not saying to be ecstatic, I myself have serious doubts about how good this team can be. But if you actually dont want this team to finish anything above tenth, because you think itll prove some infantile point about how to build a team then your just being a troll at this point. If you want the team to be competitive thats awesome. But if you want the team to suck because they didnt build the way you wanted them too, then its fair to say gtfo,

I would love it if the Raptors finished above 10th this year. I have been to many live Raptors games and cheered them on personally, and when I'm not at the game, I'm posting in the game thread. I want the Raptors to be as good as they can possibly be, and why not? We don't have our draft pick this year. I was a huge Bryan Colangelo homer for the first half of his tenure, as many on this forum can attest to. The problem is that I no longer have confidence in his vision, or his moves, and I am not optimistic about the state of the team moving forward with him at the helm.

Trying to be realistic is the motive behind the things that I say, not some strange point-proving quest.

You dont have to like BC as a GM, but BC doesnt play the games, the players do and theyve been doing alright so far. And I dont mean you personally but I get the feeling with some of the comments made that people would rather the team do bad so they can be right about how bad BC is/how we can only be successful by tanking. The negativity here just sucks .If you told me at the beginning of the season that we would have traded jose calderon and ed davis for rudy gay, that JV and Ross were looking like solid prospects and Ross won the dunk contest, and that bargnani was on the bench where he belongs then I would have thought thered be a lot more happy campers on this forum. I remember reading here that people liked the Lowry trade, yet we make a perfectly logical follow up trade to that in Gay and its been nothing but bitchfests while weve been winning since. I think I should give up on realgm lol I dont react well to trolls.

[Alfred]

Being critical of a team you support is one thing. But If you dont like a single thing the team has done over the past decade, and the only solution to changing our fortunes you can come up with is to trade away all our assets and tank for the next 5 years, and even when we go 6-3 after a trade you still try to trash it because it doesnt make us an automatic contender, then yes there is something wrong with you still being a fan of this team. Were not going to tank and were not going to win a title anytime soon. Bitching about that fact on the internet is just ruining it for people who enjoy cheering for one of the most exciting teams to watch in the league. So if this description fits you, then please check out the other 29 teams forums. I bet Miami/OKC are used to bandwagoners at this point anyways.

I like it when the Raptors do good things, like win games, make a good trade, make a smart draft choice or sign a good free agent. I don't like it when the Raptors do bad things, like lose games, make bad trades, make a poor draft selection or sign useless free agents.

Tell me, what has happened more recently, the Raptors doing good things? Or the Raptors doing bad things? The Raptors have lost more games than they have won, passed on Drummond last draft, do not have a draft pick this season, and signed Landry Fields to a 20 million dollar contract. A 9 game sample size (most of them at home) against teams that were missing their best players isn't going to make me ignore the overwhelming bad things that Bryan Colangelo has done.

I don't like being critical. I would absolutely love it if the Raptors were competitive, and I could simply talk about how great the team was. Unfortunately, the team isn't good and I don't like sugarcoating turds.

It isn't about the past though. That's part of the issue. We are talking about the present team and the present team is good. It's 6-3 since Rudy came here with wins over some very good ball clubs. We've played 9 of the top 14 best defensive teams in the league since Rudy came here. Why are we still talking about past failures with this going on?

The era of Jose and Andrea playing 30 mpg is no more. If that's what many hated around here then rejoice. It's over. Bargnani is the 6th man so many wanted him to be. We have some 2-way players finally. Look at my signature. That happened recently. We have looked good with Rudy, Jonas and Kyle all playing big minutes and that's what we'll have to start the season next year. We will likely be staring down the 8th place spot this year. If we retain a 55-60% winning % the rest of this year is there any doubt that we could be competing in a 4/5 battle next season in the East? The teams in 4, 5 and 6 in the East right now are in that .550-.600 range.

But there's none of that excitement and instead there's just the same old troll threads about how bad all our players are.

If you want my reasoning why I think that you are being overzealous, I can give them to you.

-Rudy Gay has been the least efficient player in the league since joining the Raptors, and one of the least efficient players in the league this season, even if you count his time with the Grizzlies. It's plain as day that we're putting too much pressure on him to be the #1 option.
-DeMar DeRozan is not efficient either. He's been better since Rudy Gay has come to town, but is still scoring at under league average efficiency, and this is his primary attribute.
-Terrence Ross. I am not only concerned with his overall talent level, I am concerned with his development.
-Too many overpaid, underperforming players. This is going to severely hamper our ability to make moves to improve ourselves.
-No draft pick. The draft is one of the easiest ways to continue improving for cheap. We don't have a draft pick this season.
-Front court depth. We lack it.

Even if things work out almost perfectly, this is still likely an 8th seed team next season. While that's better than where we are currently, it's hardly the definition of success.

[Phenomenologist]

So the justification for making a mountain of atrocious moves that blew up in his face, and for having us (not by his design) in the lottery for five straight seasons is ... that this is the era of LBJ and KD? I don't think I've ever heard a more blatant instance of a straw man in all my life.

What the **** does the dominance of LBJ and KD have to do with the price of tea in China (isn't it funny when idioms work out like this?)? BC has made atrocious move after atrocious move and now that's all wiped away because MAYBE, just MAYBE we will sneak into the playoffs in the weak-ass Eastern conference NEXT SEASON? Remember all the projections when we got Hedo? Maybe hold off on the smugness until, you know, we're actually good enough for one entire season to make the playoffs.

Maybe you'd have some ground to stand on if we had been making the playoffs consistently, fighting as an upper-end treadmill team like Atlanta for multiple seasons, while making sensible management decisions along the way. But that could hardly be farther from the truth.

You and your ilk are the reason the "true fans" (read: homer morons) on this site are so mockable. Because you get on your high horses and pose terrible arguments like the one you just did.

[SDM]

Exactly. Like the LBJ/KD era has been happening every year since BC's had control of this team.

Combined titles won by LBJ and KD in a combined 12 seasons? One. With an assist from Bryan Colangelo.

[DatBoiCapspace]

Exactly. Like the LBJ/KD era has been happening every year since BC's had control of this team.

Combined titles won by LBJ and KD in a combined 12 seasons? One. With an assist from Bryan Colangelo.

Youre right if were not winning championships every year then youre just a dumb homer if you follow the team. Lets follow the MIA board instead.

[tracey_nice]

Exactly. Like the LBJ/KD era has been happening every year since BC's had control of this team.

Combined titles won by LBJ and KD in a combined 12 seasons? One. With an assist from Bryan Colangelo.

lol +1. miami's dynasty exists only cause BC allowed them to move marcus banks and take on JO's huge expiring. we've been a ~.400 team under Colangelo. this team, as constructed, is flirting with .500.

ONLY 1 TEAM WINS THE CHAMPIONSHIP, GROW UP GUYZ THIS IS A BIZNESS.

[Double Helix]

I like it when the Raptors do good things, like win games, make a good trade, make a smart draft choice or sign a good free agent. I don't like it when the Raptors do bad things, like lose games, make bad trades, make a poor draft selection or sign useless free agents.

Tell me, what has happened more recently, the Raptors doing good things? Or the Raptors doing bad things? The Raptors have lost more games than they have won, passed on Drummond last draft, do not have a draft pick this season, and signed Landry Fields to a 20 million dollar contract. A 9 game sample size (most of them at home) against teams that were missing their best players isn't going to make me ignore the overwhelming bad things that Bryan Colangelo has done.

I don't like being critical. I would absolutely love it if the Raptors were competitive, and I could simply talk about how great the team was. Unfortunately, the team isn't good and I don't like sugarcoating turds.

The only evidence we have to go by is the 9 games because thats the amount this current team has played. And the schedule was tough, you forgot IND and NYK with their all-stars, no one expected them to play this good. I am not saying to be ecstatic, I myself have serious doubts about how good this team can be. But if you actually dont want this team to finish anything above tenth, because you think itll prove some infantile point about how to build a team then your just being a troll at this point. If you want the team to be competitive thats awesome. But if you want the team to suck because they didnt build the way you wanted them too, then its fair to say gtfo,

I would love it if the Raptors finished above 10th this year. I have been to many live Raptors games and cheered them on personally, and when I'm not at the game, I'm posting in the game thread. I want the Raptors to be as good as they can possibly be, and why not? We don't have our draft pick this year. I was a huge Bryan Colangelo homer for the first half of his tenure, as many on this forum can attest to. The problem is that I no longer have confidence in his vision, or his moves, and I am not optimistic about the state of the team moving forward with him at the helm.

Trying to be realistic is the motive behind the things that I say, not some strange point-proving quest.

I honestly have no idea why you feel as though I was questioning your devotion to the team personally. You were seriously one of the the last posters I had in mind when this topic started to shift toward where it is at the moment.

You must know the types of people I'm referring to. How could you not? The question was simply where is the line drawn between criticism and trolling? Perhaps that's a question better served for the mods board or through PM. In fact, I'm sure it is.

Anyway, I never questioned your devotion to the team and I wouldn't consider you the type of person I was referring to anyway. I'm talking about some very specific types of posters who literally only seem to be here to troll.

[tracey_nice]

You and your ilk are the reason the "true fans" (read: homer morons) on this site are so mockable. Because you get on your high horses and pose terrible arguments like the one you just did.

lol.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=925082

#neverforget.

[Double Helix]

So the justification for making a mountain of atrocious moves that blew up in his face, and for having us (not by his design) in the lottery for five straight seasons is ... that this is the era of LBJ and KD? I don't think I've ever heard a more blatant instance of a straw man in all my life.

What the **** does the dominance of LBJ and KD have to do with the price of tea in China (isn't it funny when idioms work out like this?)? BC has made atrocious move after atrocious move and now that's all wiped away because MAYBE, just MAYBE we will sneak into the playoffs in the weak-ass Eastern conference NEXT SEASON? Remember all the projections when we got Hedo? Maybe hold off on the smugness until, you know, we're actually good enough for one entire season to make the playoffs.

Maybe you'd have some ground to stand on if we had been making the playoffs consistently, fighting as an upper-end treadmill team like Atlanta for multiple seasons, while making sensible management decisions along the way. But that could hardly be farther from the truth.

You and your ilk are the reason the "true fans" (read: homer morons) on this site are so mockable. Because you get on your high horses and pose terrible arguments like the one you just did.

I'm not refuting Bryan Colangelo's record or anything that's happened in the past. I'm talking about this team... right now... moving forward for a few years with ANY GM at the helm but with Rudy Gay, Kyle Lowry, Demar Derozan, Amir Johnson, Terrence Ross and Jonas Valanciunas as its core.

Some fans want to talk about the present.

[tracey_nice]

I'm not refuting Bryan Colangelo's record or anything that's happened in the past. I'm talking about this team... right now... moving forward for a few years with ANY GM at the helm but with Rudy Gay, Kyle Lowry, Demar Derozan, Amir Johnson, Terrence Ross and Jonas Valanciunas as its core.

Some fans want to talk about the present.

really have no idea what yer arguing for, broh.

[Phenomenologist]

Are you now or have you ever been a member of the Communist Party of the United States?

[Double Helix]

Right, because being bothered about the fact that a fan site that was specifically created to be one of the few places online where Raptors fans can discuss their favorite team without being trolled is McCarthyism.

By the way, insult me again by calling me a moron or worse and you'll find out exactly what it's like to lose your freedom of speech. Terms of service, friendo. This place does still have some rules.

[SDM]

"I'm here to talk about this capped out, pick-less team's present and future, goshdarnit, and you're all stupid for not seeing that we need to roll over and die and let Miami and Oklahoma City battle it out every year just like they've done for the last forty"

[Phenomenologist]

Right, because being bothered about the fact that a fan site that was specifically created to be one of the few places online where Raptors fans can discuss their favorite team without being trolled is McCarthyism.

By the way, insult me again by calling me a moron or worse and you'll find out exactly what it's like to lose your freedom of speech. Terms of service, friendo. This place does still have some rules.

I didn't call you a moron; I implied that you were one.

[Geddy]

I love how this team has already been anointed with an "era" i.e. the Jonas, Ross, Gay era. This team has accomplished nothing at the moment aside from a 9 game sample size and some people already want to accept it as "the best we can do". If you want to be satisfied with the next best thing besides a legit competitor then you should still not be happy with this team.

Right, because being bothered about the fact that a fan site that was specifically created to be one of the few places online where Raptors fans can discuss their favorite team without being trolled is McCarthyism.

By the way, insult me again by calling me a moron or worse and you'll find out exactly what it's like to lose your freedom of speech. Terms of service, friendo. This place does have rules.

A large segment of this board, including many long time, respected members are criticizing this team and more specifically BC, Andrea, the cap flexibility, poor use of draft picks etc. Even those that traditionally supported BC have turned on him. So in that regard it's not like many who are upset with this team are just pulling stuff out of their rear ends. By throwing around words like "troll" or "trolling" you are insulting and alienating a large group of this board that may share a different view of this team.

[ATLTimekeeper]

1) I think the team made a mistake, but I hope I'm proven wrong
2) I think the team made a mistake, and I hope I'm proven right

Where you stand most often?

[ThereIsNoSpork]

I only hate Bargs and Casey. AA can be annoying with his chucking but hes forgiven from last game. We would've beat Memphis if we let him keep chucking. lol