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Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (Bargnani Situation)

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Post#211 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:52 am by YogiStewart

hillbilly hare wrote:
If I go to a restaurant and get a crap meal, in a certain sense I "boo" when I demand to see the manager, make my complaints, sometimes heatedly, and then refuse to pay.


wow. refuse to pay...
as someone who is very involved in Toronto's food and drink scene, if i saw you pulling the shenanigans you're describing, i would automatically side with the restauranteur, not you. those who demand something should never get what they demand. those who politely request and look for resolution should hopefully have their problems addressed. mistakes can happen and everyone has an off night. it is how one addresses the off night - that is what's important. a restaurant should comp your meal. you should not demand to be comped. and if Andrea is dogging it, he should address it an apologize. we should not be booing him and demanding an apology (or his head)


Could we expect as much from the Raptors? Seriously, should we be able to ask for a refund if the product, advertised as professional basketball, doesn't meet that standard? Or Andrea, like the opera singer, shouldn't get heckled and booed? Being Italian, he should understand.


ah yes, being Italian, he should understand. and perhaps we should start to cheer for Jonas in a way that "his people" would understand? same with Gay and Lowry, I guess? come one, dude...

and if you want sporting events to work where you can demand a refund based on a player or team's outcome, then you really are nuts. maybe demand refunds if you don't like how a movie ends. demand a refund from Wonderland because there wasn't enough excitement or "wonder". demand a refund on part of your wedding expenses from your wife's family because you didn't dig how she banged you last night. if you want, i can insert more ridiculous examples. but you paid to go to an entertainment event. if you were not entertained, you don't go again. but the term "caveat emptor" applies appropriately to one who buys a ducat to a sporting event. you are not guaranteed to be entertained. you are not guaranteed to see a win. it is the lottery ticket of entertainment. and you most certainly don't boo the Lotto 6/49 attendant when you pay good money to win $15 million and your ticket doesn't win, do you?
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Post#212 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:52 am by 5DOM

I think we should boo Quincy Acy because he's getting paid close to 7 digit figure for sitting on the bench. BOOOO
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Post#213 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:54 am by Too Late Crew

dagger wrote:
kirkwood wrote:You shouldn't boo players based on what kind of money they make either, its not your money and this is the NBA where 100% of the players are millionaires...



It's funny, but 90% of his detractors bring up his salary, and yet many of them keep saying MLSE should spend on luxury tax... "It's not my money, yadda, yadda". Well, if it isn't your money, and it isn't, then maybe it's irrelevant because even if his salary were a lot less, it wouldn't give us any cap space this coming summer. Really, it's weak sauce.


Not true

His salary does matter.

Yes the team may indicate they will go into the tax. Let's see what happens when it actually comes to to do itIf they will actually go into the tax let's see how they feel about having to pay a guy essentially 12 Million dollars plus to get him for the MLE. Yes that's what happens when you are over the tax that guy you wanted to sign to the 6 million dollar MLE now costs you 12M because of tax.

Outside of the tax implications its not unreasonable to expect production for your $. Be that production in return for the lost opportunity cost that Bargs salary represents or production for the $ you spend on a ticket to the game. At this point he is being paid 10M fans are paying 100s of dollars to go watch him come into the season out of shape, play poorly and frankly not appear to give much effort.

I personally wouldn't continue to boo him every single game just to boo him. But I think that the boos are only partly directed at Bargs. When he came back after the trade deadline The boos are directed at BC for his continued horrible management of this team and Bargs.

The Bargs fanboys love to defend him with the "its not his fault" line. Yet in large part Bargs is the one who controls if he's booed or not. We've seen it in the past with other players. If he came out and dove on the floor or crashed the boards the boos would either stop or subside. Its obvious that he's no longer wanted here. Its obvious he no longer wants to BE here. But its still your job and you have to at least try.

Jose was gone..traded for Chandler. There is no clearer signal that you don't have a future with this team yet the guy came back and gave effort even while everyone knew he was on his way out next good chance. Being on the trade block is not a get out of jail free card to just stop trying.
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Post#214 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:55 am by Ted Lasso

dagger wrote:But that's on management, not the guys getting paid. Why not boo Fields if it's all about money?


Because it's not all about money. There are a number of factors involved. We've been building towards this day with Bargnani for a long time now. And frankly i believe it's more Bryan Colangelo's doing than Andrea's.
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Post#215 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:56 am by Ted Lasso

5DOM wrote:I think we should boo Quincy Acy because he's getting paid close to 7 digit figure for sitting on the bench. BOOOO


You know, we could be dissecting the Fulham-Stoke game right now. :D
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Post#216 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:59 am by Oakville_Raptor

I think Toronto sports fans are the worst of any teams fans in North America.

Thank God that i'm not a fan of the Leafs.
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Post#217 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:00 am by Ted Lasso

Oakville_Raptor wrote:I think Toronto sports fans are the worst of any teams fans in North America.

Thank God that i'm not a fan of the Leafs.


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If there are two fan bases that deserve a winner, I'll go with Golden State and Toronto. Rowdy crowds every night- even during lean times
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Post#218 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:09 am by Oakville_Raptor

Chandler Bing wrote:
Oakville_Raptor wrote:I think Toronto sports fans are the worst of any teams fans in North America.

Thank God that i'm not a fan of the Leafs.


Steve Kerr‏@SteveKerrTNT

If there are two fan bases that deserve a winner, I'll go with Golden State and Toronto. Rowdy crowds every night- even during lean times


I meant by the way they treat the players on their teams. No player would ever want to sign with a team where their own fans boo the hell out of a player on the team.
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Post#219 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:32 am by ATLTimekeeper

It's kicking a dog when he's down and that reflects poorly on the character of those who choose to boo. Doesn't upset me all that much, but I hope for the team to win so I'm gonna side with the guys that will ignore the loafer and just support what's going well. We should NOT take cues from Knick fans' :lol:

I don't think, long-term, that emo fans move the needle on whether players want to play here or not. They want money and wins and weather and big city livin'. Supportive fans are likely way down on the list.
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Post#220 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:37 am by Volcano

YogiStewart wrote:
hillbilly hare wrote:
If I go to a restaurant and get a crap meal, in a certain sense I "boo" when I demand to see the manager, make my complaints, sometimes heatedly, and then refuse to pay.


wow. refuse to pay...
as someone who is very involved in Toronto's food and drink scene, if i saw you pulling the shenanigans you're describing, i would automatically side with the restauranteur, not you. those who demand something should never get what they demand. those who politely request and look for resolution should hopefully have their problems addressed. mistakes can happen and everyone has an off night. it is how one addresses the off night - that is what's important. a restaurant should comp your meal. you should not demand to be comped. and if Andrea is dogging it, he should address it an apologize. we should not be booing him and demanding an apology (or his head)


a better analogy would be:

There's only one restaurant in town and it's a pay-after-you-order type of joint. You enjoy dining out with friends and family once in a while, so you go there as a loyal customer despite it not being the greatest. The manager advertises one of his 7-foot waiters, lets say his name was Bargnacle, as the best in the business and gives him more tables than any other waiter.

Now Bargnacle is good at writing down orders, but it never seems to make its way back to the kitchen. One time, you're waiting 1/2 hour for a glass of water to come, but it never does, so you get up to go and look for him. You find Bargnacle outside smoking pot in the back alley, so you politely ask him to get you some water. He grunts in acknowledgement.

Another 1/2 hour passed and your patience is wearing thin..there's no food or water on the table. You approach Bargnacle again and he says he must have lost the tab while he was smoking. Now you're a little snappy and get him to take down your order again..reminding him that you need some water. 1/2 hour later you get your water..you take a sip and find out it's toilet water! Enraged, you start yelling at Bargnacle.

Nearby customers shake their heads in disgust. When they ask you what the problem is, you tell them everything. But they feel that yelling is uncivilized and tell you that if you were more nurturing, then maybe Bargnacle would be better at his job..after all, how many 7-foot waiters are there? It's probably his manager's fault for not giving him a better structure on how he should wait tables.

You still love the restaurant, but you don't want Bargnacle serving you. Every time you see Bargnacle approaching your table, you yell out, "NO NO NO". Another waiter, Lowery, pleads for you not to yell NO at Bargnacle. Other customers chastise you for yelling NO at Bargnacle. So you sit at your table, alone and misunderstood. All this time...all you wanted was a tall glass of water.

(btw, I don't condone booing Bargs)
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Post#221 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:52 am by Neutral 123

ATLTimekeeper wrote:It's kicking a dog when he's down and that reflects poorly on the character of those who choose to boo. Doesn't upset me all that much, but I hope for the team to win so I'm gonna side with the guys that will ignore the loafer and just support what's going well. We should NOT take cues from Knick fans' :lol:

I don't think, long-term, that emo fans move the needle on whether players want to play here or not. They want money and wins and weather and big city livin'. Supportive fans are likely way down on the list.

So they should boo him when he's playing well?
To them, it's like everyone wants the money they are never going to make. amluvinit2 on the tea party..
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Post#222 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:54 am by orbesnet

DatBoiCapspace wrote:
BIG match wrote:Toronto sports fans have the right to boo any of their teams. We continue to fill stadiums of losing teams while owners exploit that fact.


Yea cept when we were a losing team we didnt boo him. And now that were winning were booing him. Great message to send to owners lol


Now is the right time to boo him, he's hurting the team by playing... we're winning without him and he's contributing bupkiss. Boo this man!
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Post#223 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:01 am by raptorfan416

I don't give a flying f£%k. I will boo this scrub if i pay my money and i have to watch a lack of effort from him. Are people forgetting this guy haven't scored a single point in 2 straight games ? Go look at his rebounding numbers... You can pick one of these teenagers playing at your local gym that can play with more passion than this scrub.. People are booing because he's playing like he doesn't even care. It's like come man, hack somebody, go under the basket and push somebody, for love of god act as if you have life in your body. This guy is so f*&king soft..BC messed up this guys career by treating like a child actor..it's like the guy has no life in his body. He's playing like he doesn't want to be touched.
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Post#224 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:50 am by Neutral 123

To them, it's like everyone wants the money they are never going to make. amluvinit2 on the tea party..
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Post#225 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:52 am by Merit

I understand that Bargnani is "an enigma" with questionable effort. I booed him when he was playing poorly in games both last season and in games earlier this season. This was to demonstrate to the owners that I was displeased with the status quo. However, I'm a Raps fan first and a Bargnani hater a distant second. Colangelo deserves some of the blame here for the way his situation was handled in the media.

I see it like this: he hasn't been traded and is still a Raptor. While we don't have to like that he doesn't rebound well, we should do what's in the best interest of the team winning. Sure, feel disappointed if he misses a bucket, but booing is weak sauce. I feel like some of you haters have never played a team sport. You're not going to like every player on your team, but at the end of the day they're still on YOUR TEAM. You have their back until they're no longer with you.

Simple concept: support Bargnani while he's here. Cheer when he plays well. Be the bigger man. When he improves and gets traded - boo him mercilessly. That's what I'm doing, anyway.
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Post#226 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:53 am by Brinbe

Oakville_Raptor wrote:
Chandler Bing wrote:
Oakville_Raptor wrote:I think Toronto sports fans are the worst of any teams fans in North America.

Thank God that i'm not a fan of the Leafs.


Steve Kerr‏@SteveKerrTNT

If there are two fan bases that deserve a winner, I'll go with Golden State and Toronto. Rowdy crowds every night- even during lean times


I meant by the way they treat the players on their teams. No player would ever want to sign with a team where their own fans boo the hell out of a player on the team.

Seriously, get over yourself, Toronto is hardly the only city that does anything like this. :lol:

And thinking on it, what are you even talking about? We support the Leafs, Raptors, and Jays despite decades of incompetence. We made the likes of Reggie Evans, JYD and Matt f'n Bonner cult heroes, we recently gave Rudy Gay a tremendous debut reception (something that was noted by even national press in the US). We treat players well here, if they deserve the love.

Players like T-Mac, Vince, Turkoglu, Hoffa, and Bargs are the only players in recent memory to get that treatment and there are valid reasons for booing all of them. Bargs is a league-wide joke that we don't want anymore. How hard is that to understand?
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Post#227 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:04 am by hillbilly hare

YogiStewart wrote:
hillbilly hare wrote:
If I go to a restaurant and get a crap meal, in a certain sense I "boo" when I demand to see the manager, make my complaints, sometimes heatedly, and then refuse to pay.


wow. refuse to pay...
as someone who is very involved in Toronto's food and drink scene, if i saw you pulling the shenanigans you're describing, i would automatically side with the restauranteur, not you. those who demand something should never get what they demand. those who politely request and look for resolution should hopefully have their problems addressed. mistakes can happen and everyone has an off night. it is how one addresses the off night - that is what's important. a restaurant should comp your meal. you should not demand to be comped. and if Andrea is dogging it, he should address it an apologize. we should not be booing him and demanding an apology (or his head)


Could we expect as much from the Raptors? Seriously, should we be able to ask for a refund if the product, advertised as professional basketball, doesn't meet that standard? Or Andrea, like the opera singer, shouldn't get heckled and booed? Being Italian, he should understand.


ah yes, being Italian, he should understand. and perhaps we should start to cheer for Jonas in a way that "his people" would understand? same with Gay and Lowry, I guess? come one, dude...

and if you want sporting events to work where you can demand a refund based on a player or team's outcome, then you really are nuts. maybe demand refunds if you don't like how a movie ends. demand a refund from Wonderland because there wasn't enough excitement or "wonder". demand a refund on part of your wedding expenses from your wife's family because you didn't dig how she banged you last night. if you want, i can insert more ridiculous examples. but you paid to go to an entertainment event. if you were not entertained, you don't go again. but the term "caveat emptor" applies appropriately to one who buys a ducat to a sporting event. you are not guaranteed to be entertained. you are not guaranteed to see a win. it is the lottery ticket of entertainment. and you most certainly don't boo the Lotto 6/49 attendant when you pay good money to win $15 million and your ticket doesn't win, do you?


Wow.

There is no fun in mudville when the mudslingers lose their sense of humour.

You really are scrapin the bottom of the barrel with the Andrea and "his people" bit. Political correctness rears its beauty-challenged head. Calmer heads might've had an inkling that irony was being served alongside the ossobuco when Andrea and opera singers were squeezed into the same sentence. As to Andrea's people, they are my people, if such a phrase should be used in the 21st century, and even if I wasn't Italian I'd still make mine the right to poke fun at fat opera singers and beanstalk b-ball players. As you say so eloquently, "come on, dude".

Or "lighten up", or some such other pearl that I'm sure you flash so frequently. I get that you're serious. You're the torch bearer at the bonfire of the banalities. You're the capital I in the Importance of being earnest. You're the president of the Larry Gopnik Fan Club. You are a very serious man. On a mission, maybe. To root out the booers. To stop all those whose booing might give Andrea a psychological boo-boo.

The retort to all your pseudo insults in your various posts might be to turn it around and, for all those who look down on booing as Neanderthal and idiotic and nuts, call them the meek, silent, self-effacing, throw poo in my face and I won't complain Larry Gopnik schmucks of the world.

See you at Mickey D's, Larry.
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Post#228 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:36 pm by Pooh_Jeter

"Toronto offered me a very generous contract and I fit in seamlessly with their starting line-up. I have a great relationship with the coach and management and the city is beautiful. I think it's a no brainer for me to sign with the Raptors."

"Wait, the fans booed Andrea Bargnani? Tear up the contract!"

In terms of on court production, booing a player is certainly not going to help him turn things around, but this isn't a bad 7 game stretch. This is 7 years of inconsistency and false hope. The team is on the verge of an identity shift and Bargnani is really the last of the remnants of the old guard. If the fans completely turn on him at least it assures that he will be moved/amnestied in the off-season.

I think the whole "Toronto sports fans are terrible" argument is completely bogus. You can't use the bipolar RealGM boards for proof of this. Thanks to the internet there is always going to be a segment of a fanbase for anything that will go over board for criticism.

It's not as though Gray, Fields, Anderson, Lucas, etc. have started getting booed when they struggled. In fact, when a player shows something positive the fans are extremely quick to support them. Stop mistaking some negative threads on a message board as proof that the fanbase has turned on a player. This whole Bargnani thing has been a long time coming.
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Post#229 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:24 pm by RapTelligence

Andrea brought alot of what is happening on himself. Everyone knows he will not be here for long. But if stopping the booing is going to maximize the chances of the team making the playoffs then the booing is not smart nor productive.
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Post#230 Re: Hatred Against Our Players Has To Stop (B
Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:57 pm by Reg00

Nope, its the Fan base. Toronto sports fans are pretty annoying to begin with (coming from a Sens fan perspective) and its very annoying that with all the time the Raptors have been here they still don't know basketball.

Bargnani is an easy target for dim-wits who can't show their passion for the game in meaningful ways. Also, they are showing how pathetic they are in that they had to wait till the "next great thing" came along to then start booing Bargnani when he gets called into the game. After a missed shot?! Does he have to shoot 100% in order for these cheese-balls to give him some slack?

Just keep cheering for your pizza pizza and hoping for your slam dunks (what's when something good happens!).
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