ImageImageImageImageImage

Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani

Moderators: tsherkin, Yuri Vaultin, itbobby007, DG88, Undefeated, Morris_Shatford, Alfred, FluLikeSymptoms, Rhettmatic

User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 12,853
And1: 481
Joined: Aug 20, 2009

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#561 » by Indeed » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:48 pm

hillbilly hare wrote:
Indeed wrote:
hillbilly hare wrote:
Wrong headed. It was only at that one single point in his time here that Vince stopped caring and putting in the effort. Prior to that he was one of the most loved athletes in Toronto history and he responded to that by putting on fantastic show after fantastic show.

The thing rubs both ways. And it usually starts with the fans. They cheer on the new guy and, if he deserves, that support builds into respect and at times adulation. The guy then does his best to respond to that. But with Andrea it's different. He has rarely shown the intensity and dedication, which is a shame for both the fans and for him. He has never lived up to his potential and the first person he let down is himself. And then the fans. No, it's nothing new, and it can rightly be asked, Why now? Who knows. Maybe it is just finally enough is enough.

Another thing might be that fans see guys like Lowry and Gay and Amir and Jonas when he can, putting out most of the time and showing professional devotion to the game and to their teammates. And in contrast to them, Andrea stands out for his apathy and for being a bit of a suck.


Funny to see you argue with someone who joined since 2002, which is within the Carter era.

The media in Toronto tries to makeup story to praise the readers, which is not new to me. Same as the story regarding Bargnani told media the worst NBA team, which is a complete makeup as well.


Not sure what you mean. I'll tentatively retort (just in case I misunderstood), that I've been a Raptor fan since well before 2002. I wasn't on Real GM then, but they let me into the arena anyway :wink:


I am not sure how many news you contribute, and how many news you read about the Raptors, but I am pretty sure Dagger has been contributing news and insight for a while. This is why I believe in him, because I am sure he reads a lot of Raptors related news. I never see you post on the Daily Paper section, so I can be wrong.
wolfv
Veteran
Posts: 2,716
And1: 1,587
Joined: May 10, 2010

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#562 » by wolfv » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:52 pm

So does anyone think Bargnani will play noticeably harder to quiet the fans? Can he do that?
MagnusPinus
Veteran
Posts: 2,896
And1: 96
Joined: Jun 15, 2008
Location: Torino - Italia

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#563 » by MagnusPinus » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:53 pm

wolfv wrote:So does anyone think Bargnani will play harder to quiet the fans? Can he do that?


I'm pretty sure he won't..

He is a lazy kid, and italian like me.. We always blame someone else :lol: I think he will respond by ignoring and just don't caring. I think he is done with the Raptors.
GuyverADL wrote:
The only thing Curry will raise from the start of the season is his cholesterol.
People do not understand Curry's reason for wanting to be a ballerina. He wanted to be able to contort his body to be able to fit in the fridge.
User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 12,853
And1: 481
Joined: Aug 20, 2009

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#564 » by Indeed » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:53 pm

mtcan wrote:
Agimat wrote:Booing Barg sends a sour note to Rudy Gay and Sebastion Telfair about Toronto fans.Toronto fans are better than that and we should support all our players and not turn on them. Barg can be a real asset to this team lets encourage him.

-Bleachers


Actually it sends the message that if you're good, play hard and want to win...fans will support you and love you. But if you show up with a half-assed effort, speak negatively about the state of your team to the media and refuse to improve your game despite criticisms from everywhere...you will be booed...and rightfully so.

Guys like Mo Peterson, Alvin Williams, Matt Bonner were never great players...but they always left it on the floor and loved this city...that's why Toronto fans will always greet them with cheers and ovation. I have a feeling Calderon will receive a similar reception when he comes back to Toronto.


This is why I don't like All-Star game. Fans voting Lin to start instead of Chris Paul?
I am sure a coach can tell you who contributes more for their wins, but I don't trust the fans.
mtcan
General Manager
Posts: 7,821
And1: 1,759
Joined: May 18, 2001

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#565 » by mtcan » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:54 pm

wolfv wrote:So does anyone think Bargnani will play noticeably harder to quiet the fans? Can he do that?


He can either play harder/better to quiet the fans OR improve his market value so that he's tradeable if he can't stand the booing.

Otherwise, it's going to be a long last 2 years in Toronto.
mtcan
General Manager
Posts: 7,821
And1: 1,759
Joined: May 18, 2001

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#566 » by mtcan » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:55 pm

Indeed wrote:
mtcan wrote:
Agimat wrote:Booing Barg sends a sour note to Rudy Gay and Sebastion Telfair about Toronto fans.Toronto fans are better than that and we should support all our players and not turn on them. Barg can be a real asset to this team lets encourage him.

-Bleachers


Actually it sends the message that if you're good, play hard and want to win...fans will support you and love you. But if you show up with a half-assed effort, speak negatively about the state of your team to the media and refuse to improve your game despite criticisms from everywhere...you will be booed...and rightfully so.

Guys like Mo Peterson, Alvin Williams, Matt Bonner were never great players...but they always left it on the floor and loved this city...that's why Toronto fans will always greet them with cheers and ovation. I have a feeling Calderon will receive a similar reception when he comes back to Toronto.


This is why I don't like All-Star game. Fans voting Lin to start instead of Chris Paul?
I am sure a coach can tell you who contributes more for their wins, but I don't trust the fans.


Fans in China are a different story.
User avatar
hillbilly hare
Veteran
Posts: 2,521
And1: 202
Joined: Jan 29, 2011

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#567 » by hillbilly hare » Sat Feb 23, 2013 12:59 pm

Indeed:

Still don't get your point. What do you mean about the "news I contribute" or "read about the Raptors"?
I too am sure Dagger's insights are good.
I don't even know what the Daily Paper section is, let alone post on it. So you're right there.

If it's about Vince quitting on the team at that one point, I don't think you needed to be an insider to see that. And for anyone who wasn't sure, Vince himself came out and admitted it in that famous interview.

As to the rest, I was just clarifying my point, that Vince was a fan favorite for years and years, and it seemed that the affection was reciprocated. He always played like he loved the game (unlike Andrea) and that he loved TO, and he never went about his job half as*ed.
User avatar
Torontos_raptor
Sophomore
Posts: 213
And1: 33
Joined: Nov 23, 2007

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#568 » by Torontos_raptor » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:00 pm

Last night I actually felt a little bad for Andrea. I'm all up on the get Andrea out of here bandwagon, prior to which I was on the front seat of the "Andrea has sooo much potential" bandwagon. However, for individuals looking at yesterday's box score in isolation you have to be quite the obtuse basketball fan to make the determination that he did absolutely nothing. Our backups need to understand that this man can still score in bunches, how does someone like Alan Anderson get 8 shot attempts, yet Andrea is battling in the post most of the second half trying to get position and the ball keeps swinging around the three point line. The ball movement for the second unit is absolutely terrible and that starts with the pg not andrea. Small minded individuals on this board think that the numbers mean everything, but watch a game every once in a while, it allows u to garner a bigger picture. There was one specific play where there was a switch and j. kidd was on bargs, instead of feeding it into him lucas swings it to anderson, who swings it back to lucas, who takes a contested three. Like I understand the guy has fallen out of favor, but give him some touches. I'd still much rather have him getting touches with the second unit than Anderson or Lucas. As for the booing I think it's quite immature. For old timers that have seen the team since its inception in 95 I really don't think it's much of our crowd that's doing it, it's mostly these kids that no very little about team sports. You don't boo a guy that reps your city, no matter what. You boo the team if they play bad, booing is not going to make him better. What do you hope to accomplish by booing? He's playing for our team, do you not want us to win? Then wouldn't booing be counterintuititve to that goal. Get your heads right people and stop complaining about every little thing, go out and play the sport every once in a while, maybe that'll give some of these armchair critics a little more perspective on what encourages a player and what sinks him deeper into a funk.
Image
Prop
Veteran
Posts: 2,841
And1: 32
Joined: Jul 16, 2004

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#569 » by Prop » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:02 pm

screw bargnani and his feelings. if fans are sick of his crap and want to boo the guy, they should.
User avatar
Neutral 123
General Manager
Posts: 8,464
And1: 680
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
Location: Pandora

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#570 » by Neutral 123 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:03 pm

Torontos_raptor wrote:Last night I actually felt a little bad for Andrea. I'm all up on the get Andrea out of here bandwagon, prior to which I was on the front seat of the "Andrea has sooo much potential" bandwagon. However, for individuals looking at yesterday's box score in isolation you have to be quite the obtuse basketball fan to make the determination that he did absolutely nothing. Our backups need to understand that this man can still score in bunches, how does someone like Alan Anderson get 8 shot attempts, yet Andrea is battling in the post most of the second half trying to get position and the ball keeps swinging around the three point line. The ball movement for the second unit is absolutely terrible and that starts with the pg not andrea. Small minded individuals on this board think that the numbers mean everything, but watch a game every once in a while, it allows u to garner a bigger picture. There was one specific play where there was a switch and j. kidd was on bargs, instead of feeding it into him lucas swings it to anderson, who swings it back to lucas, who takes a contested three. Like I understand the guy has fallen out of favor, but give him some touches. I'd still much rather have him getting touches with the second unit than Anderson or Lucas. As for the booing I think it's quite immature. For old timers that have seen the team since its inception in 95 I really don't think it's much of our crowd that's doing it, it's mostly these kids that no very little about team sports. You don't boo a guy that reps your city, no matter what. You boo the team if they play bad, booing is not going to make him better. What do you hope to accomplish by booing? He's playing for our team, do you not want us to win? Then wouldn't booing be counterintuititve to that goal. Get your heads right people and stop complaining about every little thing, go out and play the sport every once in a while, maybe that'll give some of these armchair critics a little more perspective on what encourages a player and what sinks him deeper into a funk.

Cuz it's over. It's over for Barfs. The clock's run out...
To them, it's like everyone wants the money they are never going to make. amluvinit2 on the tea party..
User avatar
Tacoma
Veteran
Posts: 2,899
And1: 842
Joined: Dec 07, 2004

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#571 » by Tacoma » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:03 pm

Lowry is protecting a teammate which is what a teammate should do.

I bet that if Bargnani would start to give 100% effort each and every play (e.g., follow JV's example), try and get a rebound that he really shouldn't have gotten, go to the basket more instead of settling for yet another long range jump shot, or dive for the ball every so often and act like he gives a damn, the booing will stop.
User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 12,853
And1: 481
Joined: Aug 20, 2009

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#572 » by Indeed » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:03 pm

hillbilly hare wrote:Indeed:

Still don't get your point. What do you mean about the "news I contribute" or "read about the Raptors"?
I too am sure Dagger's insights are good.
I don't even know what the Daily Paper section is, let alone post on it. So you're right there.

If it's about Vince quitting on the team at that one point, I don't think you needed to be an insider to see that. And for anyone who wasn't sure, Vince himself came out and admitted it in that famous interview.

As to the rest, I was just clarifying my point, that Vince was a fan favorite for years and years, and it seemed that the affection was reciprocated. He always played like he loved the game (unlike Andrea) and that he loved TO, and he never went about his job half as*ed.


I don't know about his injury and not willing to play SF.
Bargnani never complained playing at C, but people believe he is getting hurt and not being effective (particularly at end game) at that position, so we moved him to PF. He is still playing C for us against Gasol or Chandler, and never complained. Really, he doesn't care about winning? Or is it he doesn't care what to play to make the team better?
User avatar
dTox
General Manager
Posts: 8,845
And1: 3,451
Joined: Jan 26, 2007
Location: 416
 

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#573 » by dTox » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:08 pm

Paradise wrote:As a New Yorker, I figured I'd chime in on this.

Booing is a sign of tough love. I highly doubt the fans "hate" him but they certainly realize that the Raptors are evolving and he isn't. In fact, he still represents the past era the Raptors are trying to shed and Barngani isn't even trying to show consistent effort to supplement his numbers.

Fans booing in general is a GREAT sign, it shows they are emotionally invested within the team and a player (negatively or positively). Fans realize that the Raptors surge started without him but boos are supposed to wake up the player and motivate them but it all depends on the mindset of the player.

You get booed in New York, you either come out and win the fans over or you get booted out of town. Classic example: Carmelo. Dude was booed everytime he touched the ball because of the losing record with him compared to Lin, it was certainly unfair in hindsight but Carmelo used it to get better to have a career year and boost the Knicks. Before his Knick tenure, Melo was booed during his trade saga in Denver but he still played hard through it until he was traded.

It's all about how you respond to the boos. They will continue to do so until he responds on the floor in a positive way to boost the team's chances at the playoffs but Bargnani seems like the type to ignore it and not try. He seems like he's waiting to get traded while certain guys would still want to get traded while diving on the floor for loose balls, attacking the glass or making an effort too, etc.

Quite honestly, superstar players would be attracted to a fanbase that will have the passion to boo their team or players. When teams do not hold their team accountable for their on court performance, it's usually a bad sign.

All Bargnani has to do is go out there and do things he's never done before and fans will accept him as they have for the past few years. They just need to understand, he's not a thick skin competitors that will use it as motivation compared to others.


great post, Toronto fans aren't unique to this situation, Bargs would have been boo'd in NYC, or any other fanbase that is as passionate as ours, especially when we managed to screw up a #1 draft pick on him, then lost our star player in Bosh because we failed to put a real C next to him, only to see our GM then try and replace Bosh with this guy and sell it to us as a working product. Come to think of it, the GM should be boo'd just as much as Bargs if not more, for trying to force this lazy 7 foot bum down our throat for 7 straight years when it clearly wasn't working from the beginning
Image
TBZ for the win
User avatar
Indeed
RealGM
Posts: 12,853
And1: 481
Joined: Aug 20, 2009

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#574 » by Indeed » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:10 pm

Torontos_raptor wrote:Last night I actually felt a little bad for Andrea. I'm all up on the get Andrea out of here bandwagon, prior to which I was on the front seat of the "Andrea has sooo much potential" bandwagon. However, for individuals looking at yesterday's box score in isolation you have to be quite the obtuse basketball fan to make the determination that he did absolutely nothing. Our backups need to understand that this man can still score in bunches, how does someone like Alan Anderson get 8 shot attempts, yet Andrea is battling in the post most of the second half trying to get position and the ball keeps swinging around the three point line. The ball movement for the second unit is absolutely terrible and that starts with the pg not andrea. Small minded individuals on this board think that the numbers mean everything, but watch a game every once in a while, it allows u to garner a bigger picture. There was one specific play where there was a switch and j. kidd was on bargs, instead of feeding it into him lucas swings it to anderson, who swings it back to lucas, who takes a contested three. Like I understand the guy has fallen out of favor, but give him some touches. I'd still much rather have him getting touches with the second unit than Anderson or Lucas. As for the booing I think it's quite immature. For old timers that have seen the team since its inception in 95 I really don't think it's much of our crowd that's doing it, it's mostly these kids that no very little about team sports. You don't boo a guy that reps your city, no matter what. You boo the team if they play bad, booing is not going to make him better. What do you hope to accomplish by booing? He's playing for our team, do you not want us to win? Then wouldn't booing be counterintuititve to that goal. Get your heads right people and stop complaining about every little thing, go out and play the sport every once in a while, maybe that'll give some of these armchair critics a little more perspective on what encourages a player and what sinks him deeper into a funk.


Sorry to tell you that Gay also gets the same treatment in the low post after he switched on a smaller player. Then Lucas chuck a missed shot and Knicks scored on their possession. The game is tired (or 2 points lead by Knicks), and Gay's face expression showed some frustration.

Bargnani has been playing with these level of talent the last 3 years, and I am not sure what effort you want him to put. Beat those guys up when they are not playing defense? Beat them up when they need someone to bailout the play? I thought playing with those talent needs more than effort.
User avatar
hillbilly hare
Veteran
Posts: 2,521
And1: 202
Joined: Jan 29, 2011

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#575 » by hillbilly hare » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:13 pm

MagnusPinus wrote:
wolfv wrote:So does anyone think Bargnani will play harder to quiet the fans? Can he do that?


I'm pretty sure he won't..

He is a lazy kid, and italian like me.. We always blame someone else :lol: I think he will respond by ignoring and just don't caring. I think he is done with the Raptors.


Watch it, Magnus, the PC patrols are out for folks like you and me! You almost said that we Italians are all lazy and irresponsible. I'd take offense if I didn't agree with you! :wink: No, seriously, Andrea is the only one who can snap out of this and he has to do it himself. I did feel a little bad for him, but that is beside the point to an extent. Fans do have the right to boo, in my opinion. And Andrea has been so half-hearted for so long that it's frustrating. And now it stands out more, given the professional way that Lowry and Gay conduct themselves and try to lead the team. Maybe that's what sets off the boos for Andrea. Boh. (P.S. voti domani? Chissà se Andrea voterà.)
User avatar
TheGoodDoctor
Head Coach
Posts: 6,278
And1: 4,490
Joined: Jul 23, 2012
Location: Jurassic Park
 

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#576 » by TheGoodDoctor » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:14 pm

Tacoma wrote:Lowry is protecting a teammate which is what a teammate should do.

I bet that if Bargnani would start to give 100% effort each and every play (e.g., follow JV's example), try and get a rebound that he really shouldn't have gotten, go to the basket more instead of settling for yet another long range jump shot, or dive for the ball every so often and act like he gives a damn, the booing will stop.


I guarantee it would.

He is being booed for that exact opposite behaviour....for YEARS of not going out and playing hard and then following it up with a terrible attitude like he owes nothing. I personally wouldn't boo him but I can't fault fans for doing so; Bargnani for years has treated the team and fans like he owes them nothing and now they are treating him the exact same way -- karma at it's finest.

But trust me the fans would love nothing more than for him to turn it around but they are done coddling him and his blazay attitude. If he apologized for his past behaviour or even stated and then showed he's giving it his best effort there is no doubt in mind that our city would not only stop booing but rally behind him because he would finally get it!

I mean he goes out there and his effort is obvious, sometimes you see him just stand there on defence and let his man go by with absolutely no resistance....he doesn't score so he doesn't engage himself at all in any other way as if that's all he needs to do out there. With the fans booing him his offence obviously won't be on par so he has to make it up in other ways and if he did he would start to actually get and understand what the fans always wanted from him EFFORT. Because he would have to go out there and make the small plays -- rebounding, passing the ball, defence, being vocal, fighting for our team; things that don't require confidence but hustle and effort. The fans ALWAYS get behind that and reward it and he's being booed but he's done the complete opposite for years. If Andrea turns it around not only will he win the fans back, he will become a MUCH better player.

The fans tried to love him for years and he took advantage of it; now it's tough love and time to prove what you're worth.
#MLSEHIRETZ ------ HOLD UP, HOLD UP-------#WETHENORTH.
Image
User avatar
ronleroy
Senior
Posts: 722
And1: 44
Joined: Jan 09, 2011
Location: Liniverse

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#577 » by ronleroy » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:15 pm

his statline last night was fantastic, all zeros and 1 PF. Lowry, Jack should all shat up already, they are lucking they get a sellout at this team that hasn't made the playoffs in nearly 10 years. Not only will a boo, i will post scathing remarks about all across the internet.
Jeremy Lin > Spartacus
MagnusPinus
Veteran
Posts: 2,896
And1: 96
Joined: Jun 15, 2008
Location: Torino - Italia

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#578 » by MagnusPinus » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:22 pm

hillbilly hare wrote:Watch it, Magnus, the PC patrols are out for folks like you and me! You almost said that we Italians are all lazy and irresponsible. I'd take offense if I didn't agree with you! :wink: No, seriously, Andrea is the only one who can snap out of this and he has to do it himself. I did feel a little bad for him, but that is beside the point to an extent. Fans do have the right to boo, in my opinion. And Andrea has been so half-hearted for so long that it's frustrating. And now it stands out more, given the professional way that Lowry and Gay conduct themselves and try to lead the team. Maybe that's what sets off the boos for Andrea. Boh. (P.S. voti domani? Chissà se Andrea voterà.)



I think after losing for so many years he just gave up on this team.. He put effort in the beginning, but then watching how useless it was he just turned off.. then all these injuries, came at the perfect/worst point for him to basically stop caring about everything.. now he is back, team has changed.. fans hate him, team hates him.. I just don't see him putting that much effort. It's not his personality. He is not a leader, he needs someone else to push him, but now, nobody cares, she he doesn't care either.
(p.s bah sto giro non voto.. me la guardo da spettatore, sarà un bello spettacolo, non vince nessuno, perdiamo tutti :lol: Andrea presumo anch'egli non voterà.. che gliene frega a lui.. troppi soldi :P )
GuyverADL wrote:
The only thing Curry will raise from the start of the season is his cholesterol.
People do not understand Curry's reason for wanting to be a ballerina. He wanted to be able to contort his body to be able to fit in the fridge.
User avatar
KrazyP
Head Coach
Posts: 6,385
And1: 638
Joined: Jun 02, 2001
 

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#579 » by KrazyP » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:27 pm

Neutral 123 wrote:
Torontos_raptor wrote:Last night I actually felt a little bad for Andrea. I'm all up on the get Andrea out of here bandwagon, prior to which I was on the front seat of the "Andrea has sooo much potential" bandwagon. However, for individuals looking at yesterday's box score in isolation you have to be quite the obtuse basketball fan to make the determination that he did absolutely nothing. Our backups need to understand that this man can still score in bunches, how does someone like Alan Anderson get 8 shot attempts, yet Andrea is battling in the post most of the second half trying to get position and the ball keeps swinging around the three point line. The ball movement for the second unit is absolutely terrible and that starts with the pg not andrea. Small minded individuals on this board think that the numbers mean everything, but watch a game every once in a while, it allows u to garner a bigger picture. There was one specific play where there was a switch and j. kidd was on bargs, instead of feeding it into him lucas swings it to anderson, who swings it back to lucas, who takes a contested three. Like I understand the guy has fallen out of favor, but give him some touches. I'd still much rather have him getting touches with the second unit than Anderson or Lucas. As for the booing I think it's quite immature. For old timers that have seen the team since its inception in 95 I really don't think it's much of our crowd that's doing it, it's mostly these kids that no very little about team sports. You don't boo a guy that reps your city, no matter what. You boo the team if they play bad, booing is not going to make him better. What do you hope to accomplish by booing? He's playing for our team, do you not want us to win? Then wouldn't booing be counterintuititve to that goal. Get your heads right people and stop complaining about every little thing, go out and play the sport every once in a while, maybe that'll give some of these armchair critics a little more perspective on what encourages a player and what sinks him deeper into a funk.

Cuz it's over. It's over for Barfs. The clock's run out...


So its better for the team to have inferior players to jack up wild, contested shots?? Anderson and Lucas are out of control most of the time and Casey really isnt doing anything about it.
User avatar
sanity
RealGM
Posts: 17,551
And1: 1,804
Joined: Jul 08, 2009

Re: Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani 

Post#580 » by sanity » Sat Feb 23, 2013 1:34 pm

The player who is playing inferior to the scrubs IS Bargnani, though

We wouldn't have even won our last couple games if it weren't for Anderson's play. By all means, run more of the offense through a zero-statline player, it won't help this team win.

Return to Toronto Raptors


Users browsing this forum: carl_english, TorontoRapture, UnderdogRaptors