Lowry to fans: Stop booing Bargnani

[hillbilly hare]

This reminds me a bit about Vince's last season here - the media, Feschuk in particular, started a vendetta against him. So Carter obliged by being increasingly less motivated at putting in effort. In the end, we got 10 cents on the dollar in trading him, set the franchise back for years.

Ya, that strategy worked really well.

Wrong headed. It was only at that one single point in his time here that Vince stopped caring and putting in the effort. Prior to that he was one of the most loved athletes in Toronto history and he responded to that by putting on fantastic show after fantastic show.

The thing rubs both ways. And it usually starts with the fans. They cheer on the new guy and, if he deserves, that support builds into respect and at times adulation. The guy then does his best to respond to that. But with Andrea it's different. He has rarely shown the intensity and dedication, which is a shame for both the fans and for him. He has never lived up to his potential and the first person he let down is himself. And then the fans. No, it's nothing new, and it can rightly be asked, Why now? Who knows. Maybe it is just finally enough is enough.

Another thing might be that fans see guys like Lowry and Gay and Amir and Jonas when he can, putting out most of the time and showing professional devotion to the game and to their teammates. And in contrast to them, Andrea stands out for his apathy and for being a bit of a suck.

Funny to see you argue with someone who joined since 2002, which is within the Carter era.

The media in Toronto tries to makeup story to praise the readers, which is not new to me. Same as the story regarding Bargnani told media the worst NBA team, which is a complete makeup as well.

Not sure what you mean. I'll tentatively retort (just in case I misunderstood), that I've been a Raptor fan since well before 2002. I wasn't on Real GM then, but they let me into the arena anyway

[sca]

This reminds me a bit about Vince's last season here - the media, Feschuk in particular, started a vendetta against him. So Carter obliged by being increasingly less motivated at putting in effort. In the end, we got 10 cents on the dollar in trading him, set the franchise back for years.

Ya, that strategy worked really well.

Wrong headed. It was only at that one single point in his time here that Vince stopped caring and putting in the effort. Prior to that he was one of the most loved athletes in Toronto history and he responded to that by putting on fantastic show after fantastic show.

The thing rubs both ways. And it usually starts with the fans. They cheer on the new guy and, if he deserves, that support builds into respect and at times adulation. The guy then does his best to respond to that. But with Andrea it's different. He has rarely shown the intensity and dedication, which is a shame for both the fans and for him. He has never lived up to his potential and the first person he let down is himself. And then the fans. No, it's nothing new, and it can rightly be asked, Why now? Who knows. Maybe it is just finally enough is enough.

Another thing might be that fans see guys like Lowry and Gay and Amir and Jonas when he can, putting out most of the time and showing professional devotion to the game and to their teammates. And in contrast to them, Andrea stands out for his apathy and for being a bit of a suck.

Funny to see you argue with someone who joined since 2002, which is within the Carter era.

The media in Toronto tries to makeup story to praise the readers, which is not new to me. Same as the story regarding Bargnani told media the worst NBA team, which is a complete makeup as well.

What's funny is if that sentence was uttered by some player with proven leadership qualities, it would be interpreted as if he was trying to light a fire up his teammates' asses. But when Bargnani says that, that must mean he's throwing his teammates under the bus.

[Indeed]

Booing Barg sends a sour note to Rudy Gay and Sebastion Telfair about Toronto fans.Toronto fans are better than that and we should support all our players and not turn on them. Barg can be a real asset to this team lets encourage him.

-Bleachers

Actually it sends the message that if you're good, play hard and want to win...fans will support you and love you. But if you show up with a half-assed effort, speak negatively about the state of your team to the media and refuse to improve your game despite criticisms from everywhere...you will be booed...and rightfully so.

Guys like Mo Peterson, Alvin Williams, Matt Bonner were never great players...but they always left it on the floor and loved this city...that's why Toronto fans will always greet them with cheers and ovation. I have a feeling Calderon will receive a similar reception when he comes back to Toronto.

Calderon was receiving death threats over twitter at the beginning of the season. He's constantly been called out by the same posters who want Bargnani booed nowadays. Don't act like he was beloved by the fans while he was here, even if he was giving 100% effort night in and night out. Bargnani has similar limitations physically, but somehow people are convinced that he's not "giving any effort." Fact is, he's the villain to some of the fans to whom everything is black or white (Bargnani sucks, Colangelo sucks, Casey sucks) and nothing will ever change their minds.

I think Bargnani doesn't know how to play his position is one big problem. There maybe some effort problem and physical limitation, but every player will fall asleep once in a while over 36 minutes.

Similar to Gay in Memphis, Bargnani is not being utilized. He does not play like a big, and people want him to play like one, however, they failed to understand he is effective to play the way he is (scoring 19ppg per 36), and it is effective against most of the teams (as effective as Gay if you compare the number).

The problem is, fans are not adept to the new NBA. LeBron, Durant, Melo, Gay, Galli, and etc are now the new PF; and stretch bigs in Bosh, Amare, Griffin and etc. with little defense are acceptable at C. There is not many back to the basket bigs, and they take too long to setup (get post position, even Phil Jackson mentioned the league should extend the shot clock to 30 seconds), where teams are focus more on the perimeter with more skillful players.

People think we still need a low post present may not be true, most teams prefer their bigs can shoot 18 feet. Aldridge, Garnett, Bosh, Duncan, Scola, Horford and etc. They are among top 20 shooting from 16-23 feet (in attempts), and this is how teams play.

[djsunyc]

everyone can justify it anyway they want...but if an actual nba player says something, y'all should listen.

[mtcan]

everyone can justify it anyway they want...but if an actual nba player says something, y'all should listen.

Can an actual NBA player tell Andrea not to suck so much and give a **** once in a while? Thanks.

[Indeed]

Wrong headed. It was only at that one single point in his time here that Vince stopped caring and putting in the effort. Prior to that he was one of the most loved athletes in Toronto history and he responded to that by putting on fantastic show after fantastic show.

The thing rubs both ways. And it usually starts with the fans. They cheer on the new guy and, if he deserves, that support builds into respect and at times adulation. The guy then does his best to respond to that. But with Andrea it's different. He has rarely shown the intensity and dedication, which is a shame for both the fans and for him. He has never lived up to his potential and the first person he let down is himself. And then the fans. No, it's nothing new, and it can rightly be asked, Why now? Who knows. Maybe it is just finally enough is enough.

Another thing might be that fans see guys like Lowry and Gay and Amir and Jonas when he can, putting out most of the time and showing professional devotion to the game and to their teammates. And in contrast to them, Andrea stands out for his apathy and for being a bit of a suck.

Funny to see you argue with someone who joined since 2002, which is within the Carter era.

The media in Toronto tries to makeup story to praise the readers, which is not new to me. Same as the story regarding Bargnani told media the worst NBA team, which is a complete makeup as well.

Not sure what you mean. I'll tentatively retort (just in case I misunderstood), that I've been a Raptor fan since well before 2002. I wasn't on Real GM then, but they let me into the arena anyway

I am not sure how many news you contribute, and how many news you read about the Raptors, but I am pretty sure Dagger has been contributing news and insight for a while. This is why I believe in him, because I am sure he reads a lot of Raptors related news. I never see you post on the Daily Paper section, so I can be wrong.

[wolfv]

So does anyone think Bargnani will play noticeably harder to quiet the fans? Can he do that?

[MagnusPinus]

So does anyone think Bargnani will play harder to quiet the fans? Can he do that?

I'm pretty sure he won't..

He is a lazy kid, and italian like me.. We always blame someone else I think he will respond by ignoring and just don't caring. I think he is done with the Raptors.

[Indeed]

Booing Barg sends a sour note to Rudy Gay and Sebastion Telfair about Toronto fans.Toronto fans are better than that and we should support all our players and not turn on them. Barg can be a real asset to this team lets encourage him.

-Bleachers

Actually it sends the message that if you're good, play hard and want to win...fans will support you and love you. But if you show up with a half-assed effort, speak negatively about the state of your team to the media and refuse to improve your game despite criticisms from everywhere...you will be booed...and rightfully so.

Guys like Mo Peterson, Alvin Williams, Matt Bonner were never great players...but they always left it on the floor and loved this city...that's why Toronto fans will always greet them with cheers and ovation. I have a feeling Calderon will receive a similar reception when he comes back to Toronto.

This is why I don't like All-Star game. Fans voting Lin to start instead of Chris Paul?
I am sure a coach can tell you who contributes more for their wins, but I don't trust the fans.

[mtcan]

So does anyone think Bargnani will play noticeably harder to quiet the fans? Can he do that?

He can either play harder/better to quiet the fans OR improve his market value so that he's tradeable if he can't stand the booing.

Otherwise, it's going to be a long last 2 years in Toronto.

[mtcan]

Booing Barg sends a sour note to Rudy Gay and Sebastion Telfair about Toronto fans.Toronto fans are better than that and we should support all our players and not turn on them. Barg can be a real asset to this team lets encourage him.

-Bleachers

Actually it sends the message that if you're good, play hard and want to win...fans will support you and love you. But if you show up with a half-assed effort, speak negatively about the state of your team to the media and refuse to improve your game despite criticisms from everywhere...you will be booed...and rightfully so.

Guys like Mo Peterson, Alvin Williams, Matt Bonner were never great players...but they always left it on the floor and loved this city...that's why Toronto fans will always greet them with cheers and ovation. I have a feeling Calderon will receive a similar reception when he comes back to Toronto.

This is why I don't like All-Star game. Fans voting Lin to start instead of Chris Paul?
I am sure a coach can tell you who contributes more for their wins, but I don't trust the fans.

Fans in China are a different story.

[hillbilly hare]

Indeed:

Still don't get your point. What do you mean about the "news I contribute" or "read about the Raptors"?
I too am sure Dagger's insights are good.
I don't even know what the Daily Paper section is, let alone post on it. So you're right there.

If it's about Vince quitting on the team at that one point, I don't think you needed to be an insider to see that. And for anyone who wasn't sure, Vince himself came out and admitted it in that famous interview.

As to the rest, I was just clarifying my point, that Vince was a fan favorite for years and years, and it seemed that the affection was reciprocated. He always played like he loved the game (unlike Andrea) and that he loved TO, and he never went about his job half as*ed.

[Torontos_raptor]

Last night I actually felt a little bad for Andrea. I'm all up on the get Andrea out of here bandwagon, prior to which I was on the front seat of the "Andrea has sooo much potential" bandwagon. However, for individuals looking at yesterday's box score in isolation you have to be quite the obtuse basketball fan to make the determination that he did absolutely nothing. Our backups need to understand that this man can still score in bunches, how does someone like Alan Anderson get 8 shot attempts, yet Andrea is battling in the post most of the second half trying to get position and the ball keeps swinging around the three point line. The ball movement for the second unit is absolutely terrible and that starts with the pg not andrea. Small minded individuals on this board think that the numbers mean everything, but watch a game every once in a while, it allows u to garner a bigger picture. There was one specific play where there was a switch and j. kidd was on bargs, instead of feeding it into him lucas swings it to anderson, who swings it back to lucas, who takes a contested three. Like I understand the guy has fallen out of favor, but give him some touches. I'd still much rather have him getting touches with the second unit than Anderson or Lucas. As for the booing I think it's quite immature. For old timers that have seen the team since its inception in 95 I really don't think it's much of our crowd that's doing it, it's mostly these kids that no very little about team sports. You don't boo a guy that reps your city, no matter what. You boo the team if they play bad, booing is not going to make him better. What do you hope to accomplish by booing? He's playing for our team, do you not want us to win? Then wouldn't booing be counterintuititve to that goal. Get your heads right people and stop complaining about every little thing, go out and play the sport every once in a while, maybe that'll give some of these armchair critics a little more perspective on what encourages a player and what sinks him deeper into a funk.

[Prop]

screw bargnani and his feelings. if fans are sick of his crap and want to boo the guy, they should.

[Neutral 123]

Last night I actually felt a little bad for Andrea. I'm all up on the get Andrea out of here bandwagon, prior to which I was on the front seat of the "Andrea has sooo much potential" bandwagon. However, for individuals looking at yesterday's box score in isolation you have to be quite the obtuse basketball fan to make the determination that he did absolutely nothing. Our backups need to understand that this man can still score in bunches, how does someone like Alan Anderson get 8 shot attempts, yet Andrea is battling in the post most of the second half trying to get position and the ball keeps swinging around the three point line. The ball movement for the second unit is absolutely terrible and that starts with the pg not andrea. Small minded individuals on this board think that the numbers mean everything, but watch a game every once in a while, it allows u to garner a bigger picture. There was one specific play where there was a switch and j. kidd was on bargs, instead of feeding it into him lucas swings it to anderson, who swings it back to lucas, who takes a contested three. Like I understand the guy has fallen out of favor, but give him some touches. I'd still much rather have him getting touches with the second unit than Anderson or Lucas. As for the booing I think it's quite immature. For old timers that have seen the team since its inception in 95 I really don't think it's much of our crowd that's doing it, it's mostly these kids that no very little about team sports. You don't boo a guy that reps your city, no matter what. You boo the team if they play bad, booing is not going to make him better. What do you hope to accomplish by booing? He's playing for our team, do you not want us to win? Then wouldn't booing be counterintuititve to that goal. Get your heads right people and stop complaining about every little thing, go out and play the sport every once in a while, maybe that'll give some of these armchair critics a little more perspective on what encourages a player and what sinks him deeper into a funk.

Cuz it's over. It's over for Barfs. The clock's run out...