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When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ?

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seasofcheese
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When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#1 » by seasofcheese » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:44 pm

Ive read plenty of posts and complaints that this team is screwed now and should have gone more tank and that we are now just a treadmill team for the next 2-5 years.
Anyhow I'm not here to debate that. I choose to look on the rosey side of things and enjoy watching a more competitive team and think they have a shot to become something very very good/great. Just wondering what the naysayers and malcontents feel this team would have to accomplish in the future to not be a treadmill team ? If they win 50 games next year ? .... 60 games ? ....... if they make the 2nd round of the playoffs ? conference finals ? or is it simply if they dont win a championship then they are just a treadmill team (which one would think by that logic any team that is not Miami is just a treadmill team)
Curious if there is an actual level or feat that this team can get to where people would say "Ok, I was wrong this team is legit"
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#2 » by vexen » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:46 pm

Every team is a treadmill team expect the Heat or OKC/SA.

Fans really need to get there heads checked, even if this team tanks for the next 10 years they will never win a championship. Unless Kobe, LBJ, KD, CP3, Popovich come to T.O we are not winning and EVEN if GOD was the GM none of those guys will EVER come here.

Our only chance is Wiggins who hopefully comes here after his Rookie contact which is in line with LBJ's retirement.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#3 » by Tortiglioni » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:49 pm

Um, well, winning a playoff series is a good place to start.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#4 » by McFurious1 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:51 pm

Great question!
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Thanks TurboZone for the sig.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#5 » by FluLikeSymptoms » Sat Feb 23, 2013 4:54 pm

When we're an elliptical team?

I guess stairclimber is too much to ask for.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#6 » by Los Manos » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:07 pm

When the average age of your roster is under 26 and you're a considered a consensus playoff team then you aren't on the treadmill. You are young, talented and with a ton of room for improvement year on year while your core is under contract.

If the average age of our roster was like the knicks, a shade under 32 in average age and aren't considered a contender then essentially you're on the treadmill.

Our main rotation of players under contract going into next year:

Lowry
DeRozan
Gay
Amir
Jonas
Ross
Gray
Fields
Bargnani

has an average age of 24.5 - As long as there is room for significant internal development at your starting positions and you're a playoff team then how can that be considered being on a treadmill?
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#7 » by gei » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:08 pm

I would say now we're NOT a treadmill team. Any moves will just make us better and better - we needed someone like Gay to bring this team some credibility which helps us getting better players going forward.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#8 » by raptorfan416 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:16 pm

most of the people that wanted to tank next season just wanted to do it because they wanted Wiggins on this team.. Canadians have the biggest homer mentality. they don't mind passing up on a better player just to get a top CANADIAN player on this team. remember a few year ago when people on this forum wanted the big cat here as if he was some kind of savior ? these are the same people that wanted nash here at any cost.. they act as if we finished with the worst record we would get Wiggins.. even if you do tank and finish with the worst record the chances of getting Wiggins is still slim. just ask the bobcats if they got Anthony Davis. the nba draft is set up.. why do think it's done behind closed doors. the nba draft should be like the NFL draft where the worst team gets the first pick..
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#9 » by mcgrady_1 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:35 pm

Why people are worrying about becoming a treadmill team when we are perennial losers I don't know. Things are looking up in Raptorland but there are stages to our development as a team before we can become a legit Contender. A core of Gay, Lowry, JVal, DD, Amir & Ross is a good start. Our next couple of drafts and FA signings are crucial.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#10 » by SFour » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:38 pm

The Raptors haven't even turned on the treadmill. Lets see them make the playoffs then we can talk about being a treadmill team.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#11 » by Raptorfan2012 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:46 pm

If getting into the playoffs at 7-8 seed is a treadmill team, then I'll get my running shoes. I want this team in the playoffs, even if it is against the heat. One step at a time guys. Wiggins is like 2 years away, and there is no guarantee we get him even if we tank hard. I like our core of Gay, Lowry, and Jonas. Demar and Amir are also nice pieces.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#12 » by PT416 » Sat Feb 23, 2013 5:48 pm

When the young guys develop and people stop being so pessimistic. We actually have some amazing potential on this squad. Rudy is Rudy. But after that you have Demar who improves every year. You have Lowry who's even more capable and having an off year by his standards. You have Ross who has potential (not a fan of his game but he IS a rookie). And then last but DEFINITELY not least you have Jonas who IMO has all-star potential without a doubt. So in the east in a couple years we potentially can have 3 all stars in Gay, Derozan and Jonas. Lowry is borderline (considering the great PGs in the east). Mix that in with a sick supporting cast (Amir, Lowry and whoever we get for Andrea) and I really think fans gotta stop being so pessimistic about our team. We're potentially 2 or 3 years of development away from being great. The coach has some developing to do as well.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#13 » by StopitLeo » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:11 pm

You can treadmill in the lottery as we have been doing for years.

You can also treadmill as a perennial fringe playoff team.

I think the ultimate goal of any team is to be a contender. Not sure we have the #1 guy to take us there, although Gay is much closer than anyone we have had since Bosh. I fear we still need another really good guy or someone even better to be a contender. Jonas might be that guy. We'll see.

I think at this time we can be a perennial fringe playoff team, with the occasional fluke 5-6 seed.

Still treadmilling though.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#14 » by RapsFanInVA » Sat Feb 23, 2013 6:17 pm

Step 1: Make the playoffs
Step 2: Make the 2nd round
Step 3: Make the ECF

It's about progress. This team isn't even on the treadmill yet, we're standing in the corner stretching our hamstrings. Perennial 1st round fodder = treadmill. We're capped out so we better make our move up the conference standings next year and hopefully win a playoff series.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#15 » by Morse Code » Sat Feb 23, 2013 8:25 pm

Tanger wrote:You can treadmill in the lottery as we have been doing for years.

You can also treadmill as a perennial fringe playoff team.

I think the ultimate goal of any team is to be a contender. Not sure we have the #1 guy to take us there, although Gay is much closer than anyone we have had since Bosh. I fear we still need another really good guy or someone even better to be a contender. Jonas might be that guy. We'll see.

I think at this time we can be a perennial fringe playoff team, with the occasional fluke 5-6 seed.

Still treadmilling though.

Agreed. IF everything goes as planned, in regards to Jonas' improvement, then we might have a chance of winning a playoff series next season. Instead of banking on his development, I think we are better off getting 1 more piece that's at lowry/dd's level. I think the Pistons/Grizzlies mold is ok with most of our fanbase (lacking a superstar), but in order to reach that level we are 1 piece away, and will need a season or so to build chemistry together and for the young guys to further develop. If we can acquire that 1 piece in the offseason, and let them play next season together with a better coach, I think we will be on our way to contender 2014/15.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#16 » by Joker » Sat Feb 23, 2013 9:53 pm

You can be a fairly young talented team that looks pretty treadmill-ish. The Josh Smith-Joe Johnson-Marvin Williams era Hawks comes to mind. The Pau Gasol era Grizzlies as well.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#17 » by nodeal » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:18 pm

treadmill teams are teams that rarely see the 2nd round. I would also call them poorly run teams. <15% = bad. >30% = good.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#18 » by DHK » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:30 pm

the Raptors arent a treadmill team at the moment...when we get there we' can reopen this topic and have a discussion.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#19 » by Hendrix » Sat Feb 23, 2013 10:54 pm

Being a treadmill team has nothing to do with how many wins you have.

A treadmill team is a team that's ceiling is mediocrity (aka. not a contender), and they are stuck there (or going to be stuck there) for a period of time. A treadmill team might have a vastly different amount of wins (could range from 20 to 50) in any given season, but don't have the resources to improve to contender status. And, when I say resources I mean a combonation of....

1) Talent that can grow internally.

2) Assets they can trade to improve their team's talent.

3) Draft picks that can yield the team talent.

4) Financial flexability.


We are a treadmill team because we fail miserably at these. We have no where in the ball park of the talent to be a contender, and don't have enough great prospects where you would expect them to turn into a contender through internal growth. We have pretty much zero assets to trade for better players. We are missing a high draft pick over the next couple years to help improve our talent level. And, we are stuck in this situation for the forseasble future because we don't have financial flexability.


There's nothing wrong with just enjoying watching them as a team. They could turn into a decent team. But, if we are calling a spade a spade, this team's cieling is well below that of a contender and that is not going to change for a while.

There are a lot of teams that I wouldn't consider a treadmill team. Even horrible teams like the Cav's I would say atleast have some shout at becoming a conteder because they might have the best PG in the league on their team in the future, Plus a couple other players that might pan out (Thompson, Waiters), plus they have a high draft pick coming. They also have assets they could trade (Varejo), and a good cap situation. It's plausable they could turn into a contender.
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Re: When are the Raptors NOT a treadmill team ? 

Post#20 » by Viatical » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:15 pm

Los Manos wrote:When the average age of your roster is under 26 and you're a considered a consensus playoff team then you aren't on the treadmill.


Yep. As crazy as it sounds, Toronto is in the same boat as the Rockets when it comes to this laundry list of young kids trying to coalesce around a playoff goal, and with future playoff hopes spelled out in the ongoing development of those young pieces. Obviously Houston has far superior management and coaching to tie it all together, so their melting pot of a young roster is on a higher trajectory, but I'll still call this team Rockets East. I'm not against it.

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