Our early season struggles...Casey's fault or Gay's?

[Indeed]

Both.....plus our stats team.

I remember reading an article about how our stats team loves isolation plays & think we should be running tons of them.

Constant isolation plays only work if you have superstar perimeter players that can basically do what they want handling the ball & get a whistle whenever they want.

Even then, Miami moves the ball really well & they have the best player on the planet.

Rudy Gay was essentially an inefficient version of Chris Bosh. Why would you let a player like that be so ball dominant on offense?

That just seems asinine. If it's our stats team that suggested that we need more isos, then I think all of us that called Casey a dinosaur when he made the comments that you can't solely rely on analytics and sometimes have to trust your eyes owe him an apology.

Someone needs to understand the difference between LeBron or Durant running isos vs. Rudy or DeMar.

And good players need good supporting team to surround them. There was no complimentary player when Gay was a Raptors. Same as I argued about Bargnani, simply there was no 3 point shooting to spread the floor. Who do you want him to pass to when he attracted one defender from the perimeter?

[J-Roc]

Blame the coach. Every game I watched with Rudy Gay the team and him in particular were running the game plan.

[RaptorJ]

Casey could've played more to our strengths, but Rudy Gay has no idea how to play winning basketball.

[m83588333]

Bargnani sucked on the knicks surrounded by JR Smith and Melo. Gay never passed and never drew a double team because he chucked it.

Sent from my Nexus 7 using Tapatalk

[simple_jack]

Anyone else kindof wish we had Rudy Gay going into the playoffs?

[J-Roc]

Anyone else kindof wish we had Rudy Gay going into the playoffs?

Rudy Gay.

[Kastas]

Anyone else kindof wish we had Rudy Gay going into the playoffs?

[genius-]

both do.

Rudy not passing on fast breaks, holding the ball as soon as he received it is on him and has nothing to do with coaching.

Casey for not holding him accountable when he was playing like that is on Casey.

[CoinTossRoss31]

I wonder if one of us is secretly Patrick Patterson It could even be you

[vini_vidi_vici]

RG Toronto


RG SAC


But again it needs to be implicitly stated, these two teams are much different than each other in roster construct, on the PnR for instance, its alot different having Boogie, than say JV/AJ. His top 2 were still PnR/ISOs, he still has the same top 5 SpotUps/Transition/PostUps.




Same spots roughly. So you can see its the %s that soared. Without delving into roster construct/etc.. its tough to just say, its on the coach to me atleast. Edit: More threes here, more midrange there.

[tommer]

I've said this before & I'll say it again -- Rudy Gay held this franchise hostage for the first 18 games of the season, and Dwayne Casey enabled him.

[basketball royalty]

I said it while it was happening. We were not running a good offense and that is on the coaches. Rudy was ISO Rudy because that is what the coaches wanted. It was basically Rudy and DeMar taking turns.

The reason for this seasons turnaround is we started putting the ball in Kyle Lowrys hands and let him be an actual point guard. Now we have DeMar when we are looking for an ISO play but overall the ball moves around because Kyle is allowed to make decisions rather than have Rudy or DeMar making the calls and sitting behind the 3pt line waiting for a pass that was rarely coming.

[everdiso]

Both Gay and Casey (and Ujiri too) didn't respect the talent on the rest of the team, that's pretty clear. Both of them thought making the offense run entirely through Rudy was the only option to being a winning team.

Now this wasn't entirely unjustified - i mean none of us respected the rest of the talent on the team either.

And it really is too bad, because a Rudy that wasn't the #1 option is exactly the kind of player we lack right now, a guy that could go one-up against lebron or melo without getting embarassed.

Then again, the return in the tade is arguably at least as valuable, if not more.

[Pass it]

Patrick Patterson's a cool guy. I like him

[Scarface844]

Both obviously. Rudy has always been a flawed player. He had/has the potential to be a Lebron type of player but he never reached that potential and imo that was due to his bball iq. Rudy just lacks the basketball smarts to be a great player and a #1 option. He needs a certain system to succeed.

Casey on the other hand has shown he has no idea how to manage "elite" level talent. Bargnani was supposed to be elite and our #1 option and Casey said its come hell or high water with him. With Rudy it was the same thing. Ran isolation plays, didn't bench him when he needed to etc.

That's one underrated aspect about DeMar. DeMar can do dumb **** sometimes but his IQ is very good. His IQ isn't even natural but rather over the years hes gotten smarter and his understanding of the game has gotten better. Casey is still inept with DeMar at times but fortunately DeMar has bball iq and Lowry to correct his mistakes.

[UnderdogRaptors]

Casey put him in a position to fail

[Tacoma]

...How one can imply we would be in the same spot or better with Gay is insane. He went to a different team and played alot better but in no way was that guaranteed to happen here. What a boring player too.

What is insane is the revisionist hstory and bandwagon jumping on this board.

Just last season, people were saying how much better we were after Gay joined, lamenting how we were a .500+ ball club with Gay in the line up, and pre-season predictions had us at .500 or better this season because we have Gay in the line-up for a full season. There was even talk about him being one of the top SF's and making the All Star team this season, yada, yada.

Then he starts off this season in a bad slump and he's the source of all evil?? Really? NEWSFLASH... you don't suddenly go from feast to famine in 18 games; he's the same player everyone loved and said was responsible for the wins last season. As expected, he got out of his slump.

The early season struggles were due to Casey's playbook that over-relied on Gay. It's clear now that was wrong because the rest of the team turned out to be pretty good. The buck stops with Casey.

[OvertimeNO]

As has been mentioned before, the importance of offensive spacing - or the complete lack of it, when Gay was on the floor - can't be overstated.

[Scase]

Gay was clearly coasting and being a chucker but, in no way shape or form can you place Caseys AWFUL substitutions and bone headed 4th quarter brain farts on anyone but him. Those continued after RG was gone and still persist somewhat.

[vini_vidi_vici]

How much does coaching impact a players performance?

Our most surprising finding was that most of the coaches in our data set did not have a statistically significant impact on player performance relative to a generic coach. Even the most successful coaches by our metric—Jackson, Popovich, and Fitzsimmons— were statistically discernable only from the very worst-rated coaches. We therefore find little evidence that most coaches in the NBA are more than the “principal clerks” that Adam Smith claimed managers were more than 200 years ago.