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Raptors Ratings on the Rise

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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#61 » by knickerbocker2k2 » Wed Nov 26, 2014 11:52 pm

Courtside wrote:It's fairly widely known that the Leafs previously made about $11 million between their national and local TV deals. That's not a lot of money, and it will go up with this new deal, but it's still less than the Raptors make being part of the NBA and the Raptors TV money is about to jump from $15 mil to $45 mil, with the overall revenue sharing packing jumping from around $50 mil to $80 mil - before they sell a single ticket, local rights deal, sponsorship package, jersey or beer.

And with all that, the Raptors probably only get a couple of million for their local TV rights, based on the small market size and lower numbers. So as much as we gripe, we can see that it's really not all that important for the Raptors to be making big numbers from their Canadian TV deals.


That may have being true in the past, but local broadcast rights for Raptors is at least in the $20-30M per year range. Look at all the local tv deals being signed. On the high end you have Lakers getting $100M per year. The Pistons are earning $35M per year in deal with Fox Sports. Even with the past low ratings, Raptors given the size of market is in the top bracket in local tv ratings.

The greatest value in assets like Raptors is stopping the cord cutting. If the only way people can get their Raptors is through TSN/TSN2/SportsNet/Sportsnet One you will have people continue to stick with their cable = thus the reason for exploiting sports tv rights. Why do you think Rogers/Bell bought MLSE? They basically put Leafs/Raptors on their channels, increase their cable carriage fees from their channels + cordial cord cutting from their cable/satellite business.
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#62 » by ratul » Thu Nov 27, 2014 12:39 am

i just watch the games on league pass - screw these cable companies
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#63 » by Courtside » Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:06 pm

knickerbocker2k2 wrote:That may have being true in the past, but local broadcast rights for Raptors is at least in the $20-30M per year range.

You're out of your mind.

The LEAFS media contracts were pulling in $11 million, and you think the Raptors are getting double that, with a fraction of the viewership?

No, the Raptors local/Canadian media deal is probably a couple of million. The stations wouldn't be paying a premium for the rights and then burying half the games on channels where they can't sell advertising to make the money back.

knickerbocker2k2 wrote:The greatest value in assets like Raptors is stopping the cord cutting. If the only way people can get their Raptors is through TSN/TSN2/SportsNet/Sportsnet One you will have people continue to stick with their cable = thus the reason for exploiting sports tv rights. Why do you think Rogers/Bell bought MLSE? They basically put Leafs/Raptors on their channels, increase their cable carriage fees from their channels + cordial cord cutting from their cable/satellite business.

You're right that live sports are the new high value property, and going forward, owning these rights and forcing various package sales is a big deal to the networks - but you're forgetting that a lot of their revenues come from advertising rights and advertising is based on # of viewers and demographics.

It's from this standpoint that they have the most to gain by allowing the Raptors to reach the largest number of people possible. They are less worried about total dollars earned by the team since these numbers are dwarfed by the money that can be made on the media side. Now that the US money is going to increase in a huge way, the Raptors can willingly let their ownership work in their best interest of growing the game and bringing in new viewers without concern that they're getting $1.8 million instead of $2.6 million for the right, or whatever the number is.
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#64 » by LittleOzzy » Thu Nov 27, 2014 4:43 pm

Courtside wrote:I think one of our media types should dig a little deeper with this. We know these numbers are based on Nielsen ratings, which use a technology that made sense in decades past, but with the digital cable of today, can be grossly inaccurate. This team is owned by Rogers and Bell, who have the technology to count - to the TV - how many people are watching. All that needs to be asked is "How accurately do the Neilsen ratings correspond with your digital measuring results?" They don't have to release any private info publicly to answer this, but we would at least know ow much trust to place in these numbers.

Part of the answer comes in the form of what money they are willing to pay for broadcasting. Rogers paying $5.2 billion for 12 years of NHL rights is a pretty big deal, even if it's just $433 mil per year. That's a lot on this side of the border and clearly shows what the #1 sport is. Rogers wouldn't pay this if they didn't have the eyeballs, but I suspect they're happy to let the poor Nielsen numbers dictate the value of the Raptors broadcasting rights, since it could suppress the amount that the Raptors are able to demand - and to my knowledge - this number is never released to the public since it basically goes from the left hand to the right hand, with the Raptors being owned by the rights-payer.

It's fairly widely known that the Leafs previously made about $11 million between their national and local TV deals. That's not a lot of money, and it will go up with this new deal, but it's still less than the Raptors make being part of the NBA and the Raptors TV money is about to jump from $15 mil to $45 mil, with the overall revenue sharing packing jumping from around $50 mil to $80 mil - before they sell a single ticket, local rights deal, sponsorship package, jersey or beer.

And with all that, the Raptors probably only get a couple of million for their local TV rights, based on the small market size and lower numbers. So as much as we gripe, we can see that it's really not all that important for the Raptors to be making big numbers from their Canadian TV deals. Of course they want to maximize the value of this package - but I think if they're smart - they make a sweetheart deal with TSN to pump the Raptors out on a national level, or at least consistently on TSN1 within the Ontario market for maybe 3 years.

They need to win over new fans during this upswing in on-court success and popularity, and taking a hit on what at best might be a difference of $1 million in yearly TV revenue will pay huge dividends down the road when it comes time to renegotiate, or to sign up their own sponsors and advertisers. The new ESPN/TNT money gives the team the luxury of offering a discount on the rights within Canada to ensure the largest number of possible viewers are reached, and then trying to make back this money through new international broadcast deals.


Sadly though, MLSE is owned by both Rogers & Bell, so you will never again see the Raptors on one network.

The number of games for each may change, but Sportsnet or TSN isn't just going to let go of programming.
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#65 » by knickerbocker2k2 » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:35 pm

Courtside wrote:The LEAFS media contracts were pulling in $11 million, and you think the Raptors are getting double that, with a fraction of the viewership?

No, the Raptors local/Canadian media deal is probably a couple of million. The stations wouldn't be paying a premium for the rights and then burying half the games on channels where they can't sell advertising to make the money back.


Not sure where you are getting $11M for Leafs. Senators who are small market team recently signed local tv deal worth ~$33M per year. According to Forbes, leafs current tv deal which is up for renewal this year is worth $41M per year. I would expect to that double as it was signed long time ago.

I don't think you understand why Raptors and other sports are on premium channels. Take for example ESPN. It is media powerhouse with great ratings. They make twice as much in carriage fees (what it charges for its channel to subscribers) than in advertising revenues. TV ratings as whole are declining and advertising revenue is being spread across other mediums (internet, social, print, etc).

If teams like Heat/Rockets/Pistons/Cavs/etc can get $20-30M, Raptors are easily worth $40M in local tv revenue given the market size is ~36M viewers. We will never know because MLSE is owned by the same entities that are bidding for the rights, and they have already agreed to split the games thus not drive up the price of these rights.
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#66 » by Camboflage » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:41 pm

Next stop, beating the NFL D-League CFL.

We got a looooooooong way to go :x
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#67 » by DDP » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:46 pm

Just an FYI the leafs get 750,000 per local game. They get 60ish local games (rest are national).
So leafs get over 45 million from local tv, than the new Canadian Tv deal, than the US national tv deal.

The 750,000 has been reported many times before, and is coming to an end soon and will probably get me major bump soon.
It's much harder to get local numbers for basketball tv money(local) but just an educated guess from career experience and having done some tax work for the blue jays in my life (I've seen some of there revenue streams) Raptors probably get 100k a game which is under 10 million a year. Again just an educated guess because it would have been signed when no one watched or really cared.
- I'm essentially using baseball and hockey local tv contracts signed in the US 5-8 years ago.
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#68 » by DDP » Thu Nov 27, 2014 6:49 pm

knickerbocker2k2 wrote:
Courtside wrote:The LEAFS media contracts were pulling in $11 million, and you think the Raptors are getting double that, with a fraction of the viewership?

No, the Raptors local/Canadian media deal is probably a couple of million. The stations wouldn't be paying a premium for the rights and then burying half the games on channels where they can't sell advertising to make the money back.


Not sure where you are getting $11M for Leafs. Senators who are small market team recently signed local tv deal worth ~$33M per year. According to Forbes, leafs current tv deal which is up for renewal this year is worth $41M per year. I would expect to that double as it was signed long time ago.

I don't think you understand why Raptors and other sports are on premium channels. Take for example ESPN. It is media powerhouse with great ratings. They make twice as much in carriage fees (what it charges for its channel to subscribers) than in advertising revenues. TV ratings as whole are declining and advertising revenue is being spread across other mediums (internet, social, print, etc).

If teams like Heat/Rockets/Pistons/Cavs/etc can get $20-30M, Raptors are easily worth $40M in local tv revenue given the market size is ~36M viewers. We will never know because MLSE is owned by the same entities that are bidding for the rights, and they have already agreed to split the games thus not drive up the price of these rights.


MLSE has to pay market rates for games, it's part of the agreement - it's a cap league with revenue sharing, can't artificially lower revenues with out being sued by a couple of parties. Even if it's left pocket right pocket money, Raptors have to show market rate on tv deal signings, but it's there next deal where it will be big money there current one was signed when deals weren't massive.
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#69 » by GED Education » Fri Nov 28, 2014 1:12 am

Two realities.

Raptors vs. Hawks - 196,000 viewers on Sportsnet 360

Leafs vs. Penguins - 1.1 Millions viewers on Sportsnet Nationally

Had TSN had this game - I think you'd see 350K +

The fact that the Raptors did nearly 200K on Sportsnet 360, a station that nobody watches and in some cases, people don't get (although I think it's part of every generic TV package) is interesting

Listen:

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/pt_20141127_185713--Prime-Time-Sports---November-27th--4pm.mp3
Stupid Quote Hall of Fame:

Hue Durant wrote:demar has no use on this team

James has come back to toronto completely elite.
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#70 » by LittleOzzy » Thu Dec 4, 2014 2:22 pm

On the non-CFL front, there were two notable numbers from the weekend. One was Friday's Toronto Raptors game, which drew 440,000 viewers to TSN. That's the kind of audiences the team was drawing last spring during the playoffs. Funny how a first-place team can attract fans.


1. CFL Grey Cup, Calgary vs. Hamilton, Sunday, TSN: 3,849,000

2. NHL, Sens-Bolts/Caps-Leafs/Sabres-Habs, Saturday, CBC-Rogers, 2,300,000

3. CFL Grey Cup post-game, Sunday, TSN: 1,800,000

4. NFL, Patriots at Packers, Sunday, CTV: 953,000

5. NFL, Browns-Bills/Saints-Steelers/Chargers-Ravens, Sunday, CTV: 682,000

6. NHL, Hawks-Kings/Flames-Coyotes, Sunday, CBC: 568,000

7. NBA, Raptors at Mavericks, Friday, TSN: 440,000

8. NHL, Canucks at Red Wings, Sunday, City: 438,000

9. NFL, Dolphins at Jets, Monday, TSN: 415,000

10. NHL, Canucks at Avalanche, Friday, Sportsnet Pacific: 281,000

11. CIS Vanier Cup, McMaster vs. Montreal, Saturday, Sportsnet: 269,000

12. Broncos at Chiefs, Sunday, TSN2: 235,000 (NBC viewers not measured).

13. NBA, Raptors at Lakers, Sunday, Sportsnet: 227,000

14, Figure skating, NHK Trophy, Saturday, CBC: 211,000

15, Figure skating, NHK Trophy, Sunday, CBC: 206,000


https://ca.sports.yahoo.com/blogs/eh-ga ... 06741.html
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#71 » by theonlyeastcoastrapsfan » Thu Dec 4, 2014 2:25 pm

Outdrew Monday Night Football on TSN.....F'n A!
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#72 » by mtcan » Thu Dec 4, 2014 2:43 pm

GED Education wrote:Two realities.

Raptors vs. Hawks - 196,000 viewers on Sportsnet 360

Leafs vs. Penguins - 1.1 Millions viewers on Sportsnet Nationally

Had TSN had this game - I think you'd see 350K +

The fact that the Raptors did nearly 200K on Sportsnet 360, a station that nobody watches and in some cases, people don't get (although I think it's part of every generic TV package) is interesting
But
Listen:

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/pt_20141127_185713--Prime-Time-Sports---November-27th--4pm.mp3

People prefer to see Sidney Crosby vs Kyle Korver..
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#73 » by OakleyDokely » Thu Dec 4, 2014 2:55 pm

Up to 7th. Beating MNF and some NHL games not involving the Leafs.

I'd really like to see a breakdown of ratings specifically for the GTA. We know the rest of Canada can't get enough of hockey, curling and CFL, but I bet the ratings for the Raps in the GTA (where most of the money in the country is located) are pretty big right now.
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#74 » by ghuytro » Thu Dec 4, 2014 3:17 pm

OakleyDokely wrote:Up to 7th. Beating MNF and some NHL games not involving the Leafs.

I'd really like to see a breakdown of ratings specifically for the GTA. We know the rest of Canada can't get enough of hockey, curling and CFL, but I bet the ratings for the Raps in the GTA (where most of the money in the country is located) are pretty big right now.


I'd also like to see them get the game details right.... Raptors @ Mavs :-?

Also - 227,000 for the Raptors @ Lakers for a game starting at 10pm on a Sunday night? Those are really good numbers.
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#75 » by Kinger95 » Thu Dec 4, 2014 4:02 pm

Plus the games on CBC and Ctv Chanel's that are on basic cable are gonna do better than games on tsn 4 that not everyone has!
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#76 » by Romaniano » Thu Dec 4, 2014 5:24 pm

List doesn't include streaming ;) :nod: :roll:
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#77 » by almatic » Thu Dec 4, 2014 5:29 pm

GED Education wrote:Two realities.

Raptors vs. Hawks - 196,000 viewers on Sportsnet 360

Leafs vs. Penguins - 1.1 Millions viewers on Sportsnet Nationally

Had TSN had this game - I think you'd see 350K +

The fact that the Raptors did nearly 200K on Sportsnet 360, a station that nobody watches and in some cases, people don't get (although I think it's part of every generic TV package) is interesting

Listen:

http://pmd.fan590.com/podcasts/pts/pt_20141127_185713--Prime-Time-Sports---November-27th--4pm.mp3


Not on Bell, it's not. You have to get a full channel selection upgrade. It's not even on the first 2 levels of channel bundles. (The 4 levels are Good, Select, Better, Best).
You can't even get it on a sports package. Know what a "sports package" is on Bell? ESPN Classic, Fight TV, Gol TV, NBATV, Fishing Network & The WILD Network.

Despicable, I hate how the Raptors are owned by MLSE & media conglomerates that show no support for the actual team, they just see them as a cash grab.
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#78 » by GED Education » Thu Dec 4, 2014 5:57 pm

If you look at just the GTA, then the team is absolutely on the rise.....I bet TV numbers and radio numbers are up. And they already sold out the arena essentially for the year.

You also see WAY more commercial time promoting games. They are marketing this team well too. I'm shocked frankly that they drew that well for the Friday game vs the Mavs - this tells me if they continue this run, they can get 600K-750K regular season games if they're not head to head with the NHL.
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James has come back to toronto completely elite.
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#79 » by GED Education » Thu Dec 4, 2014 6:02 pm

I like to look at it like this. So now TV numbers are going up. Streaming numbers and overall social media response for the team is higher than most teams. So you have this giant fanbase emerging.

Case in point, Real GM wasn't even aware of this traveling contingent of Raptors fans who went to the Cleveland game to cheer them.....so there are all these communities into the Raptors now.

1. Team Winning
2. Team likable
3. Way better team promotion (commercials, Open Gym, etc...)
4. Younger generation now with disposable income (more likely open to bball)
5. Older generation fading out (not bball fans)
6. Overkill of hockey (BIG)

I knew this could happen. The NHL on TV constantly even in Canada has limits.....it becomes way too much. Even the most hardcore Leafs fans is not going to watch some random hockey game not involving the Leafs....so it's better to support the other local team who happens to play bball.
Stupid Quote Hall of Fame:

Hue Durant wrote:demar has no use on this team

James has come back to toronto completely elite.
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Re: Raptors Ratings on the Rise 

Post#80 » by Macho » Thu Dec 4, 2014 7:49 pm

Tomorrow night's game is going to draw over 500,000. Book it.

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