Free Bebe

[Kaigu]

I hope those two get at least some play time against the 76ers.

[Raptorfan2012]

im so sick of hands and pat giving up layups+rebounds when there's a 7 foot athletic freak on the bench

Agreed. I really want to give Hansborough's minutes to Bebe. Hansborough literally does nothing except maybe knock 1-2 guys around. At least Patterson can shoot a bit.

Bruno I can understand if he doesn't come off the bench, but Masai obviously sees something to trade and get a buy out on him. Bebe has actually played in a mens' professional league, so he is not THAT raw.

[team edward]

8-2 record....

I swear some of these knuckleheads would prefer us to be 2-8 if that meant bruno playing minutes

That's the mentality a franchise's fans develop after decades of losing and selling hope. Not sure if its shell shock or Stockholm syndrome, but it's not rational. They only cure is a playoff series victory.

[aw8]

I wonder if the Raptors strength and conditioning coach is doing a good job with Bebe Nogueira and Bruno Caboclo. I hope that they do as good of a job as they did with Rudy Gay and Jonas Valanciunas.

[Hue Durant]

I wonder if the Raptors strength and conditioning coach is doing a good job with Bebe Nogueira and Bruno Caboclo. I hope that they do as good of a job as they did with Rudy Gay and Jonas Valanciunas.

[Clementine9]

I wonder if the Raptors strength and conditioning coach is doing a good job with Bebe Nogueira and Bruno Caboclo. I hope that they do as good of a job as they did with Rudy Gay and Jonas Valanciunas.

I'm against the green text method. If you can't detect the humour without it being made obvious, you don't deserve to see it.

[Hue Durant]

I wonder if the Raptors strength and conditioning coach is doing a good job with Bebe Nogueira and Bruno Caboclo. I hope that they do as good of a job as they did with Rudy Gay and Jonas Valanciunas.

I'm against the green text method. If you can't detect the humour without it being made obvious, you don't deserve to see it.

sarcasm doesn't distract from the fact that those idiots who bulked bargs, rudy, and jonas still have jobs

[Clementine9]

sarcasm doesn't distract from the fact that those idiots who bulked bargs, rudy, and jonas still have jobs

Maybe the trainers are excellent for helping players gain muscle (along with the fat that you need to help gain muscle) but their cutting regime is still in the works. Perhaps they are young, developing trainers. One step at a time for them. It's a process

[whysoserious]

casey is a moron. same people sucking his cock will bash him when we lose in the first round because of him. the sole reason bebe isnt playing is because of his age.

why did allen anderson deserve so many minutes? all he did was chuck. how do players like alan anderson get to do whatever they want on the court while players like bebe cant even get a single minute in garbage time? casey is an idiot who distrubutes minutes based on age. REGARDLESS OF SKILL OR PRODUCTION

Allan Anderson was a vet and I hated him but it's not like there were a ton of prospects sitting behind him waiting to get in to games for us.

What you guys need to realize is that we are trying to win games right now. And the reality is that Bebe and Bruno are both seen as part of our future but they are developing them slowly, behind the scenes. These guys, even if they were to play right now would give you very little to no production.

This is what happens when you put together a good team, your young players don't play as much and develop slowly. This is the new reality. You guys are all so used to losing and looking to see what the future is that you're missing out on the here and now of a good team.

Sure they are making mistakes and there's room for improvement. We all see the potential of what Bebe and Bruno may give us but they aren't ready. Even if Bebe is closer to providing anything, he's not going to see more than 5-8 minutes. Are we really getting that upset and knocking Casey over a player that is going to play so little and provide such little production.

Everyone seems to be picking on Hansbrough as the guy that should see reduced minutes but he's been playing well, he's physical and he holds his own and doesn't really get abused for a guy playing C. Until Bebe proves himself in practice with the team to earn some time, it's just not going to happen. And that isn't a bad thing right now. Again, it just confirms that we are a good team, a deep team and we can develop our young guys slowly while we continue to win.

[ATLTimekeeper]

If the Heat, Spurs, Cavs, Bulls, Rockets, Clippers, Grizzlies can all find a few minutes for rookies, so can the Raptors. We have the second largest point differential in the league right now. There have been garbage minutes available.

It's false to say that winning teams don't play young players. What's so wrong with saying that Casey can't handle developing players. He's given minutes to exactly 2 rookies in now his 4th year as coach. That's abnormal. He comes from Rick Carlisle's bench. How many players has Rick Carlisle developed in his career? Prince, Okur and Granger in 13 years. He's a great coach, not a development guy. Casey's pretty much the same. He couldn't even play rookies in a year we were tanking.

[whysoserious]

If the Heat, Spurs, Cavs, Bulls, Rockets, Clippers, Grizzlies can all find a few minutes for rookies, so can the Raptors. We have the second largest point differential in the league right now. There have been garbage minutes available.

It's false to say that winning teams don't play young players. What's so wrong with saying that Casey can't handle developing players. He's given minutes to exactly 2 rookies in now his 4th year as coach. That's abnormal. He comes from Rick Carlisle's bench. How many players has Rick Carlisle developed in his career? Prince, Okur and Granger in 13 years. He's a great coach, not a development guy. Casey's pretty much the same. He couldn't even play rookies in a year we were tanking.

The point differential is a little misleading though. Take Utah for example, that was a really close game all the way until the last 3-4 minutes of the game.

Can good teams find minutes for young players? Absolutely and should we? Probably but we're 10 games in to the season. No need to be freaking out this early about the lack of minutes for these guys.

What's so wrong with Casey believing you earn your minutes in time and through practice? We're talking about guys that are learning the language, the plays, the NBA for the first time. Bruno will probably have a tougher transition and is younger. But even Bebe, it's very early. He's probably going to see some time as the season goes on but it's so early to be freaking out with this supposed "Free Bebe" attitude.

[ATLTimekeeper]

The point differential is a little misleading though. Take Utah for example, that was a really close game all the way until the last 3-4 minutes of the game.

Can good teams find minutes for young players? Absolutely and should we? Probably but we're 10 games in to the season. No need to be freaking out this early about the lack of minutes for these guys.

What's so wrong with Casey believing you earn your minutes in time and through practice? We're talking about guys that are learning the language, the plays, the NBA for the first time. Bruno will probably have a tougher transition and is younger. But even Bebe, it's very early. He's probably going to see some time as the season goes on but it's so early to be freaking out with this supposed "Free Bebe" attitude.

I'm just pointing out that they could easily find a few minutes for both these guys without sinking the ship. 3-4 minutes left in a game is garbage time. And I dispute the notion that development time is over now that they're supposed to be winning. Some coaches have rookie-itis, others don't. If there's to be a somewhat serious discussion about this, anyone opposed to the idea of playing Bebe can't throw out arguments like "do you want us to be the Sixers?" There's obviously a larger spectrum of possible outcomes.

And what's wrong with Casey believing you earn your minutes through practice? Well, one, we don't know if that's true or not. That's just your speculation. And two, we'd all feel more comfortable if there was a list of players he's developed this way in the past.

On the whole, this isn't a big thread with a lot of momentum. There isn't a large number of fans "freaking out."

[whysoserious]

I'm just pointing out that they could easily find a few minutes for both these guys without sinking the ship. 3-4 minutes left in a game is garbage time. And I dispute the notion that development time is over now that they're supposed to be winning. Some coaches have rookie-itis, others don't. If there's to be a somewhat serious discussion about this, anyone opposed to the idea of playing Bebe can't throw out arguments like "do you want us to be the Sixers?" There's obviously a larger spectrum of possible outcomes.

We haven't even really had garbage time in many games. Really we're talking about Philly and Washington. Washington is a dangerous team but I can see an argument for getting a guy like Bebe in to a game like that and Philly. Other then that there hasn't been minutes. If the comparison is to dress him over Fields, how much has fields played? Nothing really so we're going to dress Bebe for what? To play him in for the last minute where we basically don't run plays in garbage time and run out the clock in games we've secured?

I agreed that maybe we can dress him and play him but is is that big of a deal that these two aren't right now? Especially 10 games in to a season where we sit 8-2. Is this a pressing need for the team.

And what's wrong with Casey believing you earn your minutes through practice? Well, one, we don't know if that's true or not. That's just your speculation. And two, we'd all feel more comfortable if there was a list of players he's developed this way in the past.

All we can do is look to Casey's comments, that both of these guys are working hard in practice. If we're going to say there's no evidence that this is in fact what Casey is doing and it's all speculation, then there's also no evidence that either of these two are ready to play even limited minutes since none of us are privileged to see the practices.

On the whole, this isn't a big thread with a lot of momentum. There isn't a large number of fans "freaking out."

The freaking out comment on my part may have been overexaggerated but that's what triggered this thread and reading the Bruno thread as well. Freeing these guys and ripping on Casey for this is unfair in my opinion.

Posters are asking to play Bebe over Hans, Hans is by no means great but he's contributing and I've yet to see this poster provide any evidence of how bad Hans and Patterson have been to justify they're reduced minutes. They've had a few off games but overall they are contributing.

[Jadoogar]

im so sick of hands and pat giving up layups+rebounds when there's a 7 foot athletic freak on the bench

Multiple players have proved that just being athletic doesn't make you a good defender, especially inexperienced young players. If you think Val get's lost on defense, just wait till Bebe comes on

[DonMega]

l wouldn't even mind seeing him in garbage time. Not sure what casey is doing. He's wrecking his development. Casey is horrible in the raptors development overall. Hope he doesn't ruin JV also.

Sent from my Note 4

[ATLTimekeeper]

We haven't even really had garbage time in many games. Really we're talking about Philly and Washington. Washington is a dangerous team but I can see an argument for getting a guy like Bebe in to a game like that and Philly. Other then that there hasn't been minutes. If the comparison is to dress him over Fields, how much has fields played? Nothing really so we're going to dress Bebe for what? To play him in for the last minute where we basically don't run plays in garbage time and run out the clock in games we've secured?

They shouldn't dress Fields at all and they should chose between one of Hayes or Steimsma to be the hack C needed to slow down the game. They absolutely can play their bench when other teams take out their starters, which is what happened in Washington, Philly, Utah and the first Orlando game.

I agreed that maybe we can dress him and play him but is is that big of a deal that these two aren't right now? Especially 10 games in to a season where we sit 8-2. Is this a pressing need for the team.

I already said it isn't a big deal. But the record has nothing to do with it. Ignore our record, on principle we should be looking to put these kids in any chance we get. They're not going to make giant leaps in garbage time, but it's better than sitting in a suit. Give them a reward for practicing hard.

All we can do is look to Casey's comments, that both of these guys are working hard in practice. If we're going to say there's no evidence that this is in fact what Casey is doing and it's all speculation, then there's also no evidence that either of these two are ready to play even limited minutes since none of us are privileged to see the practices.

I don't care if they're ready to play. Doug McDermott isn't ready to play either. Dennis Schroeder was a nightmare last year for Atlanta. He's already won them a game this year. Take your lumps and hope it pays off.

The freaking out comment on my part may have been overexaggerated but that's what triggered this thread and reading the Bruno thread as well. Freeing these guys and ripping on Casey for this is unfair in my opinion.

Posters are asking to play Bebe over Hans, Hans is by no means great but he's contributing and I've yet to see this poster provide any evidence of how bad Hans and Patterson have been to justify they're reduced minutes. They've had a few off games but overall they are contributing.

It's still not a big deal overall. There's little to discuss right now.

[CoachJReturns]

At this point, the closest anyone has come to "freaking out" would have been the closing minutes of the Philly game. I think the majority of fans would have predicted a double digit win, so it wouldn't have been totally unreasonable to expect Bebe to get 5-7 minutes in that one. Other than that, I would only say that this team clearly lacks rebounding and rim protection. Bebe is, from what information I can find on him, a decent offensive rebounder, poor defensive rebounder(he doesn't box out a whole lot) and a very good shot blocker. He is limited offensively, so he should only be on the floor with guys like Patterson and Lou, who live to score. It's unfortunate, that he was injured in the pre-season because it would have been nice to see a little more of him in games and at the team's open practice. I'd like to see him dress in a couple games, but I wouldn't expect him to see floor time unless Hans was looking pretty bad.
Bruno is a totally different story and it's appropriate that he has his own thread. We know he can shoot the three and has great length and at least decent athleticism and seems active, from what little we saw in summer league. However, his handles looked limited in the pre-season, as did his rebounding and ability to fight through screens. I saw some of this in person at the team's open practice and everything that's been said about him so far was confirmed, for myself. When the team scrimmaged and the ball was in his hands, he could not dribble worth a lick. Defensively, a play was run a couple times where he would have had to fight through a screen and he got beat badly. I would not play him in a game until next year myself. I do think he should see some D League time during one of the team's road trips in the not too distant future, unlike Bebe who has played against better competition and probably wouldn't benefit from it very much. Bruno, on the other hand, only played those scrubs in Brazil and other rookies in summer league.

[JWiLL02]

I actually feel like Bebe is a great fit in the 2nd unit beside Patterson...so long as we're not facing a hulking C. He's basically a poor man's Tyson Chandler.

He has great mobility defensively, finishes well of the pick and roll, and provides legitimate rim protection/shot altering ability.

It's Casey though...and experience is paramount to him. He certainly isn't going to bench Hansborough in his favor. He's also behind Hayes/Stiesma for that reason too.

[kalel123]

Nogueira shouldn't play ahead of Hansbrough/Patterson but I think Stiemsma and Hayes are the ones who belong in street clothes before Bebe.

They aren't playing either, so who the F cares?

Bebe will get his playing time when he is more ready, same for Bruno. We're 8-2 and winning does count for something now.

The logic that's escaping you is that at least if he is in uniform, he at least gets to go out and get some runs in real game during garbage time here and there. More chances to show what he can do to help get him out there sooner. At the same time, it's one more body you'd be inclined to put out there so you can sit some of the more important bench players and avoid potential injury situations. We already had a couple of blowouts where we could've easily got him some run.

We're 8-2 in a very soft schedule playing mostly at home against crummy teams where the bench had to pull them outta their asses and we are 1-2 against quality teams. We haven't done anything.

[Hue Durant]

im so sick of hands and pat giving up layups+rebounds when there's a 7 foot athletic freak on the bench

Multiple players have proved that just being athletic doesn't make you a good defender, especially inexperienced young players. If you think Val get's lost on defense, just wait till Bebe comes on

brilliant conjecture.