RR: JV Is Protecting The Rim Better Than Gasol, AD & TC

[Tofubeque]

I think the more important question regarding JV is who to pair him with long term. I believe Amir is up in a year or two and he's shown a lot more breakdown this year than we would have liked. Is Patterson the answer? Im not sure, but I hope we target a 4 with with the NY/Denver pick next year.

[UnderdogRaptors]

I love this age of stats. You can easily smack down any JV haters with numbers.

Yes he sometimes misses rotations. Yes he makes more mistakes than he should. But this kid is 22, already establishing himself as one of the best young centres and is still improving. 19.4 PER, 4th in Win Shares, ORtg 121, DRtg 103, and on and on.

What exactly are we complaining about here? Because he doesn't pass your "eye test"? Are you a trained NBA scout?

Come on now.

If bargnani can get away with not being criticized for 7 years so can JV.

[Scarface844]

If bargnani can get away with not being criticized for 7 years so can JV.

I don't get the Bargnani comparison people make Underdog. JV does get criticized, a lot. Casey doesn't baby him like BC babied Bargnani. People on here want JV force fed minutes. But Casey refuses to do that.

He wants JV to prove he deserves more minutes. Unlike Bargnani, JV actually has a work ethic and shows emotion on the court. You need to be patient Underdog. JV isn't Bargnani.

Bargnani was a 3 in the body of a 4/5. He was a completely different player. Lazy, jumpshooter, no work ethic, injury prone, no defense, no rebounding, and he was never supposed to be the #1 pick to begin with.

[Thespianoid]

If bargnani can get away with not being criticized for 7 years so can JV.

People on here want JV force fed minutes.

I haven't seen this in a long time. Mostly now it's just people calling for more involvement offensively when the perimeter offense hasn't been working.

[Lateral Quicks]

I really want to see what happens to JV if/when he cuts down the body fat from his dirty bulk. I think his adding mass phase is done; now it's time to sculpt it.

It could be that as he gets more lean he becomes a better rim protector and we won't necessarily need someone with Amir's skillset to complement him. If not, a healthy Amir and Ibaka are great choices.

[Kabookalu]

I think the more important question regarding JV is who to pair him with long term. I believe Amir is up in a year or two and he's shown a lot more breakdown this year than we would have liked. Is Patterson the answer? Im not sure, but I hope we target a 4 with with the NY/Denver pick next year.

During last year's draft, I advocated for drafting Kristaps Porzingis. I think he's the ideal fit next to JV long term, as he's a shot blocking PF with 3PT range and wing skills. He would have been in our range (late first round) had he not withdrawn.

This year he's looking like a lock to be a top 5 pick due to his continued improvement playing for Baloncesto Sevilla in the ACB. He's shown to not be as raw as advertised, but still with a good deal of potential and room to improve. Unfortunately for us. Not sure of any other prospect with the combination of talent/team fit.

I was really high on Kristaps myself. Unfortunately I don't think he was going to drop to us anyways if he stayed in the draft. I heard Atlanta was really really high on him. Now it's even more unlikely that we get him given that he's being talked about as a top 5 pick.

Our only hope seems to be that he skips out on the draft again, and declares for 2016, and New York and Denver would both have to be really crappy.

[m83588333]

Has any player ever bulked up and then regained footspeed with shedding the bulk. Can't think of a successful bulking program in the NBA

[mrsocko]

didn't we have this exact same thread for Bargnani.

[CoachJReturns]

Has any player ever bulked up and then regained footspeed with shedding the bulk. Can't think of a successful bulking program in the NBA

Most players gain some degree of muscle mass when they turn pro. Its pretty inevitable since they spend time in weight rooms, but the guys who become less lean naturally lose speed and explosiveness. Its not like fat does anything, other than weigh you down. Don't know of any playes who dirty bulked, shaved fat and then got back their quickness.

[Inevitable]

Has any player ever bulked up and then regained footspeed with shedding the bulk. Can't think of a successful bulking program in the NBA

Most players gain some degree of muscle mass when they turn pro. Its pretty inevitable since they spend time in weight rooms, but the guys who become less lean naturally lose speed and explosiveness. Its not like fat does anything, other than weigh you down. Don't know of any playes who dirty bulked, shaved fat and then got back their quickness.

Rudy Gay

[mihaic]

Fine.

Pheonix's frontcourt (27 points on 90fg%)
Varajao (18 pts on 85%)

Thats all the mobile frontcourts he's played in the last month where he hasnt "struggled". You cant call Jonas' offensive game "struggling".

Varajao has generally never been considered an elite center, nor has Plumlee. Infact, both are below Jonas to begin with.

18 points, 6 of 7 against Milwaukee (Sanders)
10 points, 4 of 7 against Memphis (Gasol, Randolph)
8 points, 4 of 8 against Chicago (Noah)
9 points, 3 of 5 against Wizards (Gortat)

Last season:
8 points, 4 of 6 against New York (Chandler)
14 points, 4 of 7 against Milwaukee (Sanders)
22 points, 10 of 14 against Indiana (Hibbert)
15 points, 4 of 7 against Houston (Howard)
20 points, 6 of 8 against Orlando (Vucevic)
23 points, 11 of 15 against Memphis (Gasol, Randolph)
14 points, 7 of 9 against Sacramento (Cousins)
10 points, 5 of 6 against Golden State (Bogut)
11 points, 4 of 7 against LA Clippers (Jordan)
12 points, 5 of 8 against Sacramento (Cousins)
18 points, 8 of 11 against Portland (Lopez, Aldridge)
17 points, 5 of 9 against LA Clippers (Jordan)
13 points, 5 of 10 against Indiana (Hibbert)
15 points, 5 of 10 against Chicago (Noah)
16 points, 7 of 11 against New York (Chandler)

Hard to tell what you're after, mobile centers or elite centers or both, or whichever one proves your point in a small sample. But Jonas has his ups and downs that don't seem to be associated with who he's playing against. Some of his biggest games have been against the elite centers of the league. He's also struggled against them. He's very much capable of competing against all of them and has been doing so since his rookie season.

I just grabbed a random sample of good games against mobile centers, elite centers, or centers who are generally perceived to be good defenders of their position. He doesn't struggle against anyone in particular that I can think of. Like I said, he just has his own ups and downs. He has an immature offensive game with lots of potential. It's enough to get the job done for the amount he's used but some nights it just isn't working for him.

I agree with your post but there is a raptor killer big: Sullinger. Even when we beat Boston we cannot seem to be able to stop that guy. And not only Jonas - I remember 1 game where he destroyed Jonas, Amir and Hayes.

But overall Jonas improved significantly on help defence. Compared to rookie year it is night and day.

[Boogie!]

hopefully now we can con denver into trading us mozgov for him.

also, context.

[Kabookalu]

Didn't know what dirty bulking was until this thread. Reading up on it now, if that's what Jonas is doing, that's an awful way to develop his strength and mass. I've advocated Jonas to gain mass and strength so I didn't mind the extra pounds he was gaining, but dirty bulking is just the wrong way around it. It's just not natural for the human body.

This is besides the point of dieting but what I want is to see him attain farmer boys strength. I'm really cynical about weightlifting. Not to get all feng shui, but the human body should work as one coordinated vessel rather than a bunch of independent beings that are forced into working together. Weightlifting promotes the latter. This is why Joey Graham is a great athlete in the combine but a terrible one on the court; he has zero fluidity. He moves clunky like he's a robot. All of his muscles work great in isolation, but are on different pages when they have to work together in a sport like basketball.

Blake Griffin approaches working out the right away, where all of his muscles are synchronized when he's working out rather than isolating his muscles in individual workouts, and the results are wonderful; he combines strength, speed, power, quickness, and fluidity that few players in this league can match.

If dirty bulking is what we've been doing to him we've hindered his development, a lot. If it were up to me I'd be telling Jonas to lose all of the pounds he gained from this dirty bulking and have him run up and down sand dunes and lifting heavy ass tires across fields every single day in the offseason.

[cammac]

Didn't know what dirty bulking was until this thread. Reading up on it now, if that's what Jonas is doing, that's an awful way to develop his strength and mass. I've advocated Jonas to gain mass and strength so I didn't mind the extra pounds he was gaining, but dirty bulking is just the wrong way around it. It's just not natural for the human body.

This is besides the point of dieting but what I want is to see him attain farmer boys strength. I'm really cynical about weightlifting. Not to get all feng shui, but the human body should work as one coordinated vessel rather than a bunch of independent beings that are forced into working together. Weightlifting promotes the latter. This is why Joey Graham is a great athlete in the combine but a terrible one on the court; he has zero fluidity. He moves clunky like he's a robot. All of his muscles work great in isolation, but are on different pages when they have to work together in a sport like basketball.

Blake Griffin approaches working out the right away, where all of his muscles are synchronized when he's working out rather than isolating his muscles in individual workouts, and the results are wonderful; he combines strength, speed, power, quickness, and fluidity that few players in this league can match.

If dirty bulking is what we've been doing to him we've hindered his development, a lot. If it were up to me I'd be telling Jonas to lose all of the pounds he gained from this dirty bulking and have him run up and down sand dunes and lifting heavy ass tires across fields every single day in the offseason.

Agree with you would be nice to see Jonas do the JJ thing of elite military type training in the offseason regain his speed, strength and co-ordination. JJ works out the right way he is a gifted specimen that when he works to his strengths is hard to beat.

Will be a interesting offseason in that with the expiring contracts would love to get Draymond Green to replace Amir would be a perfect compliment to Jonas. The only expiring I want to keep is Lou Williams.

[WhatsaTDot]

hopefully now we can con denver into trading us mozgov for him.

also, context.

See I'm not sure if you're trolling or being serious here...maybe I've had too much wine. Will hopefully see green font comment by the morning and feel silly.

[username1]

Yes love to add 2 more Lithuanians D. Sabonis and Donatas Motiejunas

It's a bit too early for Sabonis to enter NBA. Let him mature in NCAA for a couple of years.
As for Motiejūnas, his price will be going up quite a bit considering how he has been playing for the Rockets recently.

[WhatsaTDot]

Didn't know what dirty bulking was until this thread. Reading up on it now, if that's what Jonas is doing, that's an awful way to develop his strength and mass. I've advocated Jonas to gain mass and strength so I didn't mind the extra pounds he was gaining, but dirty bulking is just the wrong way around it. It's just not natural for the human body.

This is besides the point of dieting but what I want is to see him attain farmer boys strength. I'm really cynical about weightlifting. Not to get all feng shui, but the human body should work as one coordinated vessel rather than a bunch of independent beings that are forced into working together. Weightlifting promotes the latter. This is why Joey Graham is a great athlete in the combine but a terrible one on the court; he has zero fluidity. He moves clunky like he's a robot. All of his muscles work great in isolation, but are on different pages when they have to work together in a sport like basketball.

Blake Griffin approaches working out the right away, where all of his muscles are synchronized when he's working out rather than isolating his muscles in individual workouts, and the results are wonderful; he combines strength, speed, power, quickness, and fluidity that few players in this league can match.

If dirty bulking is what we've been doing to him we've hindered his development, a lot. If it were up to me I'd be telling Jonas to lose all of the pounds he gained from this dirty bulking and have him run up and down sand dunes and lifting heavy ass tires across fields every single day in the offseason.

About 15 minutes ago you didn't actually know what dirty bulking was but now you're trying to play expert on strength and conditioning. Perhaps its beyond your realm of expertise to suggest what players should or should not be doing in this particular domain? Understanding dirty bulking is the basketball equivalent of understanding the difference between a set shot and a layup; very simple.

[Kabookalu]

About 15 minutes ago you didn't actually know what dirty bulking was but now you're trying to play expert on strength and conditioning. Perhaps its beyond your realm of expertise to suggest what players should or should not be doing in this particular domain? Understanding dirty bulking is the basketball equivalent of understanding the difference between a set shot and a layup; very simple.

You get fat so you can use that to bulk up. What else do I need to know about it?

[WhatsaTDot]

About 15 minutes ago you didn't actually know what dirty bulking was but now you're trying to play expert on strength and conditioning. Perhaps its beyond your realm of expertise to suggest what players should or should not be doing in this particular domain? Understanding dirty bulking is the basketball equivalent of understanding the difference between a set shot and a layup; very simple.

You get fat so you can use that to bulk up. What else do I need to know about it?

That's there actually a lot of science that goes into calculating the energy requirements and expenditures of a 212 cm 120 kg NBA commodity that represent a multi million dollar investment beyond guessing that he's eating at a caloric surplus and believing its a bad thing because...stuff.

[Kabookalu]

That's there actually a lot of science that goes into calculating the energy requirements and expenditures of a 212 cm 120 kg NBA commodity that represent a multi million dollar investment beyond guessing that he's eating at a caloric surplus and believing its a bad thing because...stuff.

Lay off the wine, you get really pretentious when you're buzzed.

What science exactly goes into eating more than your normal calorie intake? You said a bunch of stuff without really saying much.