Can the Raptors be the Spurs Ball movement of the East?

[Rapcity_11]

Also, the Raptors offense is just fine (as long as Lowry isn't in forgetting how to play basketball mode).

DEFENSE is the problem. It's not that complicated.

d..Dwayne?


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Huh?

[Yeezus]

LMAO after that horrible offense on that playoff series now we the spurs of east smh

[akiman911]

bhha this is laughable, we couldn't be the farthest thing from the spurs.

We're a perimeter-oriented, low % shot taking, poor to craptacular b-ball IQ team. Don't forget to throw in awful ball movement, to boot

We are the last team to become the spurs, keep dreaming. Their d-league affiliate is more disciplined than our team

/thread

[Rapsfan07]

WOW..so many negative ppl here!

How about if Masai tells Casey that he should smarten up and play a Spurs/Hawks style offence..they both can go through game footages together over the summer and do some research and once Casey has it in his head that we should change the offensive scheme he'll just relay it towards the team and if anyone plays selfish basketball than he will bench the player just to show some accountability, sounds like a plan.

And just like that, Casey's ISO heavy offense is going to go away right?

The Doctor is correct. As it stands right now, we simply don't have the talent to move the ball around like the Spurs and Hawks do and I don't think Casey knows how to use his players well enough to make that work.

We'll need to reconfigure this roster and bring in Messina before we see that elite level ball movement.


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[SleeperAgent]

Say if Masai decides to keep this core of Derozan/Lowry/Valenciunas. Derozan and JV are young players with a lot of room for growth and developing, Lowry has yet to reach his prime.

Do you think Casey can mold these players into playing a certain style that they have never been accustomed to playing throughout their career ie get rid of their ISO heavy play and try to play a game that preaches ball movement with the same offensive strategy as the Spurs?

Maybe this might Masai's strategy instead of tearing it apart...thoughts?

Kyle Lowry is 29 but has yet to reach his prime? You're out of your mind.

[Boogie!]

Also, the Raptors offense is just fine (as long as Lowry isn't in forgetting how to play basketball mode).

DEFENSE is the problem. It's not that complicated.

d..Dwayne?


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

ortg and all that ****…

no we didn't look pathetic on offense against the wizards at all… it's fine… greatest ortg of all time…

don't question him, you're delusional and you're making up stories… or narratives. narrative narrative narratives. narratives. narratives.

dwane casey is brilliant. the offense is great, don't pass the ball just shoot and shoot. high ortg. any criticism of this is a narrative. you have no argument. just look at the numbers. they don't lie. nothing wrong with chucking. they go in a lot high ortg. narratives. free throw rate and stuff.

[Listas]

Nope. Casey already said his focus will b defense next year. The guards will run the chucking asylum again next year.

I hope Casey's focus next year will be finding a job.

[Volcano]

Casey and Ujiri mentioned that they discussed this last year when the Spurs won the championship

The lesson they took away from the Spurs is that it's important to have continuity..meaning Casey keeps his job and we stick with the same core for the next decade and a half.

[puinha]

In order for that to happen we need to fire Casey and end the madness.

Perhaps, I did hear of a coach named Messina that works for the Spurs we can possibly snatch, he may have some understanding in terms of Spurs's offensive style.

At this point we are left with Casey, maybe he can watch videos of other teams ie Spurs/Hawks and try to incorporate their offensive schemes towards our team.

What? Casey is the most stubburn coach we know. He can watch all the video in this earth he will never change

[Brazil88]

You mean THIS?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3y7cWmoBCI[/youtube]

Hell no! This was probably the most beautiful thing i've ever seen as far as team basketball. And it requires A LOT of different things the Raptors clearly don't have right now, like the right personel, especially high bball iq from players and coaches.

But to be honest, i don't think anyone will repeat it soon. Hawks try to emulate, a lot of other teams came this season more open minded about this ball movement approach, but repeat it will be hard.

With that said, Raptors can totally have better ball/player movement and play a more team oriented game. It's not rocket science. I just don't think Casey is the guy for this job. I didn't know much about him (never paid much attention to him), but watching most of Toronto's games this season, jesussss. The guy is garbage.

ps: It's just not fair with any team to compare with what the Spurs have built there.

[Rapcity_11]

Also, the Raptors offense is just fine (as long as Lowry isn't in forgetting how to play basketball mode).

DEFENSE is the problem. It's not that complicated.

d..Dwayne?


Sent from my iPad using RealGM Forums

ortg and all that ****…

no we didn't look pathetic on offense against the wizards at all… it's fine… greatest ortg of all time…

don't question him, you're delusional and you're making up stories… or narratives. narrative narrative narratives. narratives. narratives.

dwane casey is brilliant. the offense is great, don't pass the ball just shoot and shoot. high ortg. any criticism of this is a narrative. you have no argument. just look at the numbers. they don't lie. nothing wrong with chucking. they go in a lot high ortg. narratives. free throw rate and stuff.

[Truthrising]

You mean THIS?

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3y7cWmoBCI[/youtube]

Hell no! This was probably the most beautiful thing i've ever seen as far as team basketball. And it requires A LOT of different things the Raptors clearly don't have right now, like the right personel, especially high bball iq from players and coaches.

But to be honest, i don't think anyone will repeat it soon. Hawks try to emulate, a lot of other teams came this season more open minded about this ball movement approach, but repeat it will be hard.

With that said, Raptors can totally have better ball/player movement and play a more team oriented game. It's not rocket science. I just don't think Casey is the guy for this job. I didn't know much about him (never paid much attention to him), but watching most of Toronto's games this season, jesussss. The guy is garbage.

ps: It's just not fair with any team to compare with what the Spurs have built there.

That is such a beautiful video and I hope one day that Raptors can aspire to that style of play instead of resorting into selfish/ISO/Hero basketball that we've been accustomed throughout our tenure here.

I agree with everyone else I am delusional into thinking that we have the personnel or team management to even implement such a system and perhaps we should should just revamp everything and start with a different philosophy and this starts Masai to have that vision, he has the power to change everything,

ARE YOU LISTENING MASAI??????????????

[trick]

I don't get why people feel the need to get a new coach in order to implement good ball movement. It may not be as crisp as the Spurs or the Hawks, but the team had good ball movement during the 13-14 season, and that was with Casey as the coach. You would think they would continue that trend the following season but for some reason players went away from that.

[Truthrising]

I don't get why people feel the need to get a new coach in order to implement good ball movement. The team had good ball movement during the 13-14 season, and that was with Casey as the coach. You would think they would continue that trend the following season but for some reason players went away from that.

I just don't think he has the intellectual to implement any strategy, I think he just let's player freestyle and relies on the players to provide the ball movement should they feel like it. I think it could be due to the players just tuning Casey out and doing whatever they feel like, I think he's lost some control over the players.

[Brazil88]

I don't get why people feel the need to get a new coach in order to implement good ball movement. It may not be as crisp as the Spurs or the Hawks, but the team had good ball movement during the 13-14 season, and that was with Casey as the coach. You would think they would continue that trend the following season but for some reason players went away from that.

This probably isn't even my business, as i'm not a Raptors fan like you guys. I just enjoy your board and fanbase, so i'm here just giving my 2 cents. But Casey just got badly outcoached by Randy freaking Wittman. He could've won 72 games on the regular season and this alone should be a reason to fire him. He hardly attempted any adjustments during the series.

He's in win now mode during the regular season when it's clear this team should still be developing their young guys. I'm not gonna say anything about Caboclo because he probably is too raw to get minutes aside from garbage time. But look at Jonas. Yes, he's a flawed player, but he should be getting a lot more looks, he should be getting a lot more minutes, especially on 4rth quarter during the regular season, that's how you develop your young players. They should be using ice on the pick and roll defense, it would be a much better system, especially for Val.

Why Bebe didn't get any chances? I'm not the biggest fan of Lucas, especially off the court. But the guy is not as raw as Bruno, he played several years in Spain (a top level league). Instead of getting him 10 mpg in, let's say, 20 out of the 82 games of the reg season, Casey chose to "develop" Hayes and Hansbrough and break down Amir Johnson (he could've benefited from some rest). All because Casey was in win now mode, while this team is not ready to contend.

Also, this is why guys that are only players coaches are not the answer. This type of coaches are all buddy buddies with the players, not helding them accountable and the players love it. Until they start to lose and this coach can't come up with good tatics solutions to get them back in the winning track. Players don't want to take the blame alone. First they tune out whatever the poor tactician coach says, then if they can't win by themselfs, they start blaming the said coach, even if not explicitly.

Every player that have played for Pop (even the ones that have been waived or traded by the Spurs, ala Stephen Jackson) tells he's an awesome person. Always calls them, asks regularly about their families, if there's anything he could do for them, takes them dinners, gives them some wines, etc etc. But this is outside the facilities. Inside, in their work environment he is another person, he's as tough as it gets. Weak minded guys don't last there, he almost literally tests them to see if they are strong enough. Just remember Parker's initial seasons. Hell, just search on youtube, there are videos of Pop losing his $#%t with almost everyplayer on the roster, due to mistakes. He helds everyone accountable, it doesn't matter if it's a starter or a bench player, it doesn't matter if it's a veteran or a rookie.

Coach Bud, Hawks players hang out with him. Carroll i guess said it in an interview. And they respect him and play the right way. They may not be talented enough to win a title but they play the right way 'cause they believe in his strategy, they know it's the best way to maximize their chances.

Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge called out Sullinger for his weight problem and i don't see players giving up on Stevens. They know he's good, they know he's smart.

The NBA is in a new era, the game is changing and already has changed a lot. Smart x's and o's coaches may not have been so important in the past, but they are pretty important now. Of course you still need talent to win. It's still the biggest thing. But when you're in the playoffs, and presumably all teams are talented, having a better system, a better coach can make a big difference.

[Truthrising]

I don't get why people feel the need to get a new coach in order to implement good ball movement. It may not be as crisp as the Spurs or the Hawks, but the team had good ball movement during the 13-14 season, and that was with Casey as the coach. You would think they would continue that trend the following season but for some reason players went away from that.

This probably isn't even my business, as i'm not a Raptors fan like you guys. I just enjoy your board and fanbase, so i'm here just giving my 2 cents. But Casey just got badly outcoached by Randy freaking Wittman. He could've won 72 games on the regular season and this alone should be a reason to fire him. He hardly attempted any adjustments during the series.

He's in win now mode during the regular season when it's clear this team should still be developing their young guys. I'm not gonna say anything about Caboclo because he probably is too raw to get minutes aside from garbage time. But look at Jonas. Yes, he's a flawed player, but he should be getting a lot more looks, he should be getting a lot more minutes, especially on 4rth quarter during the regular season, that's how you develop your young players. They should be using ice on the pick and roll defense, it would be a much better system, especially for Val.

Why Bebe didn't get any chances? I'm not the biggest fan of Lucas, especially off the court. But the guy is not as raw as Bruno, he played several years in Spain (a top level league). Instead of getting him 10 mpg in, let's say, 20 out of the 82 games of the reg season, Casey chose to "develop" Hayes and Hansbrough and break down Amir Johnson (he could've benefited from some rest). All because Casey was in win now mode, while this team is not ready to contend.

Also, this is why guys that are only players coaches are not the answer. This type of coaches are all buddy buddies with the players, not helding them accountable and the players love it. Until they start to lose and this coach can't come up with good tatics solutions to get them back in the winning track. Players don't want to take the blame alone. First they tune out whatever the poor tactician coach says, then if they can't win by themselfs, they start blaming the said coach, even if not explicitly.

Every player that have played for Pop (even the ones that have been waived or traded by the Spurs, ala Stephen Jackson) tells he's an awesome person. Always calls them, asks regularly about their families, if there's anything he could do for them, takes them dinners, gives them some wines, etc etc. But this is outside the facilities. Inside, in their work environment he is another person, he's as tough as it gets. Weak minded guys don't last there, he almost literally tests them to see if they are strong enough. Just remember Parker's initial seasons. Hell, just search on youtube, there are videos of Pop losing his $#%t with almost everyplayer on the roster, due to mistakes. He helds everyone accountable, it doesn't matter if it's a starter or a bench player, it doesn't matter if it's a veteran or a rookie.

Coach Bud, Hawks players hang out with him. Carroll i guess said it in an interview. And they respect him and play the right way. They may not be talented enough to win a title but they play the right way 'cause they believe in his strategy, they know it's the best way to maximize their chances.

Brad Stevens and Danny Ainge called out Sullinger for his weight problem and i don't see players giving up on Stevens. They know he's good, they know he's smart.

The NBA is in a new era, the game is changing and already has changed a lot. Smart x's and o's coaches may not have been so important in the past, but they are pretty important now. Of course you still need talent to win. It's still the biggest thing. But when you're in the playoffs, and presumably all teams are talented, having a better system, a better coach can make a big difference.

If I could AND1 this a hundred times I would, it's great to get this perspective from an outsider and I think the rest of the fans here share your perspective but it's just too bad we don't have a GM that is bold enough to make any big changes.

[Ari_Emanuel]

All of the current center pieces of our franchise (Lowry, Lou, Derozan and Casey) are not capable of a ball movement offense. People blame strictly Casey but

> Lou has always been a one on one scorer
> Lowry doesn't seem to possess the temperament required
> Derozan is simply too low of an IQ player for this, as well as a terrible shooter

Casey is just the icing on this poopy cake in that he doesn't even try to mitigate these problems. He actually enables them.

[ansoncarter]

they shouldn't copy the spurs passing plays because that takes star talent, and when your team has shown a 20 year commitment to avoiding rebuilding, you have no hope of competing based on raw talent. That simply will never happen for the raptors.

best alternative is to accept that fact, stop masquerading their players as 'stars', and find their own style that works for them and commit to it

which probably means they start looking for superior role-players. One's who all excel at a particular niche and who compliment each other perfectly, and compliment whatever system they come up with perfectly. And especially defence, since it's the easiest thing to acquire outside the top picks of the draft

I'm sure many of teams have tried this and run into a brick wall of star talent in the playoffs, but short of rebuilding, which they will never do, I think it's the best hope to win a treadmill championship. Which is making 2nd round of the playoffs.