Has DeRozan played himself out of a max contract?

[JV4MVP]

The $ you give DD you are taking away from role players that could improve this team.


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[Treadmill_Team]

Masai has got a very, very tough decision to make. I can see both sides of the debate have valid points.

It comes down to three options. (Which should take into consideration how close we are to beating Cleveland, San Antonio, Golden State or Oklahoma in the next 5 years. I don't think we can with Demar as our shooting guard. All those teams have guys that can shut him down in the playoffs.)

The three options are:

1. Let him walk and create some much needed cap space and consider that as our asset gained. Going with Powell, Ross, Joseph/Lowry doesn't seem like a huge downgrade. Wright has to play before he hits his 30s. The guys we draft have to play to become assets or they are lost assets too. We have more of them coming. We have some very tradeable guys already.

2. Sign him for whatever his market value is, which is clearly near max, and work out a deal with another team who wants to give up a good starting PF, the only hole in our roster, who is also near max. I would think Norman Powell or Ross would be the guys the other team wanted to trade for instead of giving up a starting PF for Demar.

3. Settle for being a flawed playoff team for the next five years. That's not as horrible as it first sounds when you consider how bad the history here is. "No treadmill - winning culture" ... Masai is so sneaky. I'm am very interested in how this all plays out. The Raptors are keeping me on the edge of my seat.

#1 is the only choice! If we sign him, no one will want to trade for the guy. If we could have traded him for something good, we would have done it during the past two seasons while he was over performing on a good contract. I doubt MU got any offers for DD that would make us better rn. Everyone in the league knows he's a shooting guard that can't shoot.

The move to make is let DD walk and trade lowry while his value is high. Rebuild around JV and tank for a high draft pick. You need superstars to win in this league, this team doesn't have one. If we can't get Durant this summer, the draft is the only way.

Number one is a no brainer and I hang onto KL for at east the duration of his contract. The big opportunity is can Ujiri move up to get a wing to help in replacing Derozan? Murray/Brown/Hield. Thing we need to realize is Derozan was BC's pick and he has done all his developing here and his upside to future salary ratio is a law of diminishing returns. In order not to needlessly devalue the impact Derozan actually does have without him we may find ourselves in Detroit territory - struggling to be 7th or 6th seed at best. That is not a bad thing if that is getting it done with JV, Ross, Powell, Wright, Cory, Biz, the 9th pick and Bebe if he can ever refine his game to better than scrub level. The Pats, the Jason Thompson's, the Kyle Lowry's, the Demarre Carrolls and a nominal free agent signing or two is the real thing that keeps us a playoff team. So this draft and next year's are pretty important but we can't let KL or Pat go and expect to compete.

His game will only get worse with age too. It's not like he is going to learn how to shoot at this age. His game is based off getting to the line. As he gets older he will be less athletic which will lower his chances of getting to the basket.

I honestly rather have a 3 point specialist at the 2 and it be our weakest position in the starting line up than have Derozan in the starting line up.

[OAKLEY_2]

#1 is the only choice! If we sign him, no one will want to trade for the guy. If we could have traded him for something good, we would have done it during the past two seasons while he was over performing on a good contract. I doubt MU got any offers for DD that would make us better rn. Everyone in the league knows he's a shooting guard that can't shoot.

The move to make is let DD walk and trade lowry while his value is high. Rebuild around JV and tank for a high draft pick. You need superstars to win in this league, this team doesn't have one. If we can't get Durant this summer, the draft is the only way.

Number one is a no brainer and I hang onto KL for at east the duration of his contract. The big opportunity is can Ujiri move up to get a wing to help in replacing Derozan? Murray/Brown/Hield. Thing we need to realize is Derozan was BC's pick and he has done all his developing here and his upside to future salary ratio is a law of diminishing returns. In order not to needlessly devalue the impact Derozan actually does have without him we may find ourselves in Detroit territory - struggling to be 7th or 6th seed at best. That is not a bad thing if that is getting it done with JV, Ross, Powell, Wright, Cory, Biz, the 9th pick and Bebe if he can ever refine his game to better than scrub level. The Pats, the Jason Thompson's, the Kyle Lowry's, the Demarre Carrolls and a nominal free agent signing or two is the real thing that keeps us a playoff team. So this draft and next year's are pretty important but we can't let KL or Pat go and expect to compete.

His game will only get worse with age too. It's not like he is going to learn how to shoot at this age. His game is based off getting to the line. As he gets older he will be less athletic which will lower his chances of getting to the basket.

I honestly rather have a 3 point specialist at the 2 and it be our weakest position in the starting line up than have Derozan in the starting line up.

Doc Rivers loves Demar. Because Ujiri shelled out 10 for Ross I am a bit worried they will conclude they have to retain him at market value even though everyone and their uncle knows open market value is far from fair value. DD to the Clips makes so much more sense than the Lakers. Rivers loves Demar and they actually have a team. Maybe they throw us a bone like optioned Baby Doc to give them 3.5 mil in salary relief. Rivers is 23 and could develop more here. If Rivers picks up his option does that make him protected from trade? Rivers numbers on offence are eerily similar to TRoss.

[HiMyNameIsTrey]

Watching Derozan play basketball makes me physically ill.

[disoblige]

Where is this derozan?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4siPBe764k

[PurpleTrees]

Can't wait till Demar gets his Max from Masai so I can watch the realgm tears flow.

[IMAN5]

I 100% think he has played himself out of a max deal which might be his biggest distraction right now. There's no denying it's probably on his mind and it's actually making him play worse. Trying to do too much out there.

[UneducatedFan86]

Good post but forget the MLSE conspiracy, he hasn't been shoved down our throats as Masai tried to trade him for Bledsoe and Rudy Gay made way more money so Ujiri went with black hole B vs. A. He is most definitely hard working. Most definitely is a home grown talent. If Patrick Patterson says he is a great teamate I would believe Patrick. Casey probably wants ISO end of story as he let Lou do it as well. The thing that analysts are calling him out on, almost universally, is his poor decision making and non existent off the ball play. I think his brain goes where his body cannot. He is flat footed like a duck and that affects his handle and is shot especially going left to right. He used to be very good at drawing the foul on shot attempts but refs will not give that to him in the playoffs and opponents are less likely to bite.

2015. Patterson:

"On the court, DeMar’s definitely one of the ring leaders, as far as being the most vocal out there on the court. Whether it’s talking to teammates, or whether it’s talking to guys on the sideline, making sure guys are paying attention and in-tune to what the coaching staff is preaching to us. He’s always encouraging everybody. From the jump, DeMar’s trying to take the reins of this squad."

He is not Paul George and should not be paid PG money. He is a borderline allstar for whoever want to throw money at him.

Fair enough. I don't disagree at all.

I wasn't really saying that he ISN'T any of those things (hardworking, a good teammate, a leader etc) but I do think MLSE and the media has propped him up a lot. He was the guy they decided was going to be the face of the franchise after Bosh (and Bargnani haha) left and they've rolled with it ever since. My biggest criticism of the media (and in turn MLSE) is the fact that no matter how bad Demar (or anyone, for that matter) is playing, they constantly just blow it off or don't even mention it. Like if Demar is going 2/10 or something, we will quickly be reminded that he's our guy and he has to take those shots. Or that he's an all-star. Or that he's only going to get better. etc etc etc.

Now, I know a lot (all) of the media is owned by either Bell or Rogers, and it makes it really hard to be overly critical of a team that your bosses own, but I feel like they just coddle Demar too much. You can hear it in his post-game scrums. He blames all his missed shots on him just missing shots he usually makes. Or he'll blame his lack of assists on guys missing shots they usually make. He totally ignores the fact that he is likely playing right into the way the Pacers want him to play, and he isn't making any adjustments. Rick Fox brought this up on NBA TV. But what does our media say? He'll come around. He has to take those shots. He's an all-star. I mean, come on... really? He's a 26 year old man... don't baby him. Criticism is far from being a bad thing. It can usually be a good tool/motivator, if used right. If he playing like crap, say it. Have some respect for the intelligence of the people listening and don't try to play it off like it isn't an issue.

I guess my biggest issue is the fact that this team/coach keeps preaching staying hungry and humble. It's been their motto for the last two years. Yet, they seem anything but. After losing in 7 games against the Nets, I guess you could say that they could let 'success' get to their heads a bit. But after losing in 4 straight games against the Wizards last year, this team should be hungry and humble without even having to be reminded of it. They should realize that they need to work 120% the whole time they are out there. But they don't seem to get that (or at least certain players don't).

[kingcns187]

If his garbage play continues for the rest of the series and the Raps are eliminated then Masai has to let him walk. Yes, I understand how he helps in the regular season, attracting double teams, making the defense focus on him etc etc. Yes it is hard to replace 20+ points in the regular season but I think with Lowry and a decent free agent pick up in the offseason this is still a play off team. We need guys that don't succumb to pressure and unfortunately DeMar is a choker.

[alienchild]

I 100% think he has played himself out of a max deal which might be his biggest distraction right now. There's no denying it's probably on his mind and it's actually making him play worse. Trying to do too much out there.

On the other hand, perhaps he's decided that LA is the place for him, and he's trying to not do too much. A la Bosh.

[IMAN5]

I 100% think he has played himself out of a max deal which might be his biggest distraction right now. There's no denying it's probably on his mind and it's actually making him play worse. Trying to do too much out there.

On the other hand, perhaps he's decided that LA is the place for him, and he's trying to not do too much. A la Bosh.

Could be that too, that would be unfortunate. Because if he plays without heart maybe LA gives him a smaller offer? I don't know, we really have no idea what's going on with him.

[SpiderMunn]

Bill Simmons doesn't think so, this is from an AMA yesrterday on reddit https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/4g8vuo/impromptu_sunday_nbaonly_ama_w_simmons/d2fhuxi

masterdunk

Do you think this series and past playoff series is exposing DeMar's FA value? Did you ever believe he is worthy of a max contract? Also, do you think the Raps will close out the series?

Bill Simmons - Verified!sptguy33

We need to redefine our definition of a "max" player because some dudes are about to get overpaid. Everyone in LA thinks he's coming here regardless of how well Toronto does... also don't think Masai will want to overpay him...

[Boogie!]

for everyone that still thinks demar should be maxed... imagine he and paul george swapped places... so derozan is now the guy that needs to lead the pacers... does anyone think they win one single game against us? in fact, we probably sweep the demar led pacers... thats all that needs to be said regarding his value...

[youngtea]

Millions of dollars for Demar will depend on the next two games. If he continues his epic flop I can't imagine signing him at all.

[DarkSaturn]

Honestly, put a Lakers jersey on him and let the media create a narrative of the home town guy coming in to replace Kobe, and watch as he never struggles to get foul calls again. Might even make that max contract look justified.

Until his athleticism fades, then good luck with that.

[deeps6x]

Letting DD walk if he won't sign a team friendly deal IS good asset management. It lets us spend the $115M on other assets. On players that contribute to winning. Perhaps the first part of it goes to 2Pat to retain him next summer. Perhaps to a completely unexpected place. KD or Ibaka or ???. Players we would have no room for if DD was taking 30% of the cap.

From what I understand, we would not be in a position to sign a top tier free agent if we just let DD walk. If all we do with that extra cap relief is sign BB and Patterson to extensions, that is NOT good asset management. And if you subtract one of our more talented players from our current situation, suddenly finding the right assets to get a KD or Horford level talent via sign and trade just doesn't make us much sense if we give up what depth we have. I mean sure, Durant would still be worth it, but he's obviously the pipe dream and even him would likely want an established name like DD here as a second fiddle. Guys like Ross and Powell aren't going to entice him to choose us, no matter how might feel about those two.

I see no point to take away what just might be Ujiri's biggest strength: trading talent for depth and potential. That's what he does best. That's where he seems most comfortable. You only let DD walk if a deal for a top tier talent is already in place and we need the additional cap space to make a deal possible.

I guess I wasn't clear. I was talking about the $115M over 4 years. Yes, we can't go out and sign a Durant or Horford with it this summer. But we could use less than half of what DD could be maxed for and bring back Biyombo. That one move alone makes us a better team. Biyombo is a net positive for the team. DD is net neutral at best, and a big negative at the moment. Sure, that might use up $44M of the $115M, but we'd still have $70M to use in other places in the future. Maybe some goes to 2Pat, also a net positive player just entering his prime. Who knows where the rest would go. What matters is that the cap space would be dedicated to players who contribute more to winning than DD does.

I don't expect we will ever be luring a top free agent like KD in his prime to the team. I'd be leery as hell about luring a past his prime free agent like Horford and locking them into a 4 year max contract. Hell, I'm freaking out about the one star we have now who is also in his 30s. He is letting us down again in the playoffs. I say trade him now while he has some value, instead of thinking about maxing him next summer when he is 31.

I want to see this team get to the ECF next month. I really do. But at the same time, I know that is as far as we can ever go with DD sucking up 30% of the cap and 30% of the team's shots every game. He is too damn inefficient and too poor on D. A pseudo star at best. Losing to Indiana might just make it easier for Masai to do what he should have done last summer. And that is fire Casey, trade DD and Kyle, and not sign DC, but instead try to sign Middleton for the max. Maybe not taking a run at Middleton was part of a handshake agreement in exchange for the steal we got in the GV deal at the draft. Who knows. Hindsight is 20/20 though and I can definitely see what Masai was thinking by going all in with DD/KL and DC. If it has worked, it would have been genius. But we'd already watched the boys choke two first round series, so we knew, and he should have known, that it just wasn't likely to work. But again, I don't fault him for trying. I will fault him if we lose and he doesn't correct last summer's mistakes.

Maxing DD and later Kyle will be huge mistakes (moreso for DD, but still Kyle as well). If he does this, you know he will keep Casey as well. Sure, we'll keep winning 48-55 games for a few more seasons, but our playoff futility will continue as well.

[GreatWhiteStiff]

Even if we offer him the max (which i think we will) i think masai can trade him if things go south.

I doubt it, what if he has another playoffs similar to this? He will have virtually no trade value. We'll have to pick up some empty contracts at best.

Anyways the logic of "lets sign this guy to a potentially horrible contract since we can trade him", is pretty questionable to me, and will probably prove to be so if he's resigned and has a similar playoff season again.

[Troubadour]

Someone will offer him a near max deal. There just aren't enough talented players in this free agency class and way too much cap space to spend.

[Wasp]

Someone will offer him the max, I just hope to god it isn't us.

[The_Hater]

If he hasn't played himself out if the max then it won't be difficult to identify the league's worst contract going forward.